Livescope/Conservation question

[Spurhunter]

The lakes I fish in MS are being hammered by Livescopers and guides 7 days a week. I know guys that are catching their limit 4 or 5 days a week. Guides are catching boat limits everyday. Livescope is just that deadly. What will states do to protect the resource? Most crappie fishermen aren't like bass fishermen. They will NOT throw back a legal keeper. I'm concerned about populations in the future.

 

[RUGER]

Size and creel limits may eventually have to be adjusted.
Hard to believe technology has advanced that far.
I will say, for crappie, it is absolutely that deadly.

I'm not convinced it will cause that much population change though.
I personally know guys that have fished KY lake for 30 years and I have personally seen a group of 5 or 6 of them catch, and keep, 10-15 limits per day for a week when they all got together.
I have been on a few trips with them but the bite was never that good when I was with them.
One guy used to sell quart bags of crappie filets for $5.
Sold catfish like freakin crazy too.
Far as I know he still does it.


That was long before livescope.

 

[RUGER]

Here ya go spur

 

[Spurhunter]

Size and creel limits may eventually have to be adjusted.
Hard to believe technology has advanced that far.
I will say, for crappie, it is absolutely that deadly.

That's what I'm thinking.

 

[cbhunter]

I know a guy that caught 200 or so crappie by himself recently

 

[JBell]

I know when we go to Mississippi during pre spawn, our guide asks us to release anything over 2.25. Unless you're gonna mount it.

 

[poorhunter]

The "If it's legal it must be fine" consequences be damned crowd will cry to the moon if you try to stop them. Instead of caring about the resource or what's right, they care about being legal.

 

[WTM]

maybe but i doubt it not until everybody and their mommas have one on their boat. the wildlife agencies that actually publish their creel and trapnet data hasnt really seen an increase in harvest data.

crappie only live for 5 years and some folks are actually doing more harm than good by keeping smaller crappie. they are basically removing future fish because those larger specimens will actually be dead the next season by natural mortality. its right the opposite for other panfish like bluegill.

then you have to think about about a fisherman's skill and whether they know enough about how fish move from spot to spot at any given time, why they bite when they do and what can you do to make them bite. this takes years of time on the water and observing what goes on and remembering for a later time. the tech can only help so much.

ill give one example, a guy is fishing a brush pile using livescope, seeing crappie but not catching them. another guy pulls up and asks if he can fish the other side of the pile about 75 feet away. he says sure they aint biting anyway. that guy starts way laying them one after the other. the other guy asks what size jig he is using and its the same but the other guy knew because of a small current that those fish always bite on that particular side of the pile. true story.

i imagine on the next crappie down cycle on ky lake and we will be hearing about it. but hey, the commission always passes a "feel good" policy.

 

[rsimms]

The lakes I fish in MS are being hammered by Livescopers and guides 7 days a week. I know guys that are catching their limit 4 or 5 days a week. Guides are catching boat limits everyday. Livescope is just that deadly. What will states do to protect the resource? Most crappie fishermen aren't like bass fishermen. They will NOT throw back a legal keeper. I'm concerned about populations in the future.

Here are two reports I've published in CrappieNOW Magazine of two states that have conducted specific research regarding potential impacts to success rates due to Live Imaging Sonar (LIS). So far their results are not revealing the dramatic anecdotal reports we often see or hear.

https://crappienow.com/MAG/2022/03/01/live-imaging-sonar-research/
https://crappienow.com/MAG/2022/04/29/live-imaging-sonar-research-2/

 

[WTM]

^^ alabama's results pretty much the same.

 

[scn]

"MANY" years ago, the top fisheries biologist school in the country was probably Auburn University. At the time, we were all taught, from Auburn research, that sport fishing had little if any impact on any sportfish population.

It didn't take too many years for that thought process to go by the wayside.

Letting folks do what they want to means mega $$$$$ to wildlife agencies. If I had to make a guess, there won't be any adjustment to this new technology until it is almost past the point of no return. We have seen this agency/commission level thought process throughout the country with the decline in turkeys.

The new tech stuff wasn't a big deal for a while because it was super expensive, and not many folks were using it. Once it becomes the norm rather than the exception, you WILL see fish populations go down the toilet. All of you in here, including the ones now using that tech, know that the increased pressure is not sustainable.

I guess enjoy it while you can??

 

[RUGER]

Good thing about it I throw back 95% of what I catch

 

[X-Tennessean]

I blame Bluball!!
He post way to many coolers with limitz!

 

[Spurhunter]

A lot of interesting discussions here. I guess my optimistic hope is the fish and wildlife people are paying very close attention. I know crappie are prolific breeders. Maybe that's what will save the resource.

 

[bluball]

I blame Bluball!!
He post way to many coolers with limitz!

cant blame me anymore,all i do is worki have had my boat back 2 weeks now and havent touched it,still have a few mods i want to do.This weekend i will be working at performance fishing electronics as usual instead of messing with my boat or fishing

 

[bluball]

maybe but i doubt it not until everybody and their mommas have one on their boat. the wildlife agencies that actually publish their creel and trapnet data hasnt really seen an increase in harvest data.

crappie only live for 5 years and some folks are actually doing more harm than good by keeping smaller crappie. they are basically removing future fish because those larger specimens will actually be dead the next season by natural mortality. its right the opposite for other panfish like bluegill.

then you have to think about about a fisherman's skill and whether they know enough about how fish move from spot to spot at any given time, why they bite when they do and what can you do to make them bite. this takes years of time on the water and observing what goes on and remembering for a later time. the tech can only help so much.

ill give one example, a guy is fishing a brush pile using livescope, seeing crappie but not catching them. another guy pulls up and asks if he can fish the other side of the pile about 75 feet away. he says sure they aint biting anyway. that guy starts way laying them one after the other. the other guy asks what size jig he is using and its the same but the other guy knew because of a small current that those fish always bite on that particular side of the pile. true story.

i imagine on the next crappie down cycle on ky lake and we will be hearing about it. but hey, the commission always passes a "feel good" policy.

I think everybody and there mommas are getting it.You would be surprised if you saw how many are selling locally and people that stop by asking questions about livescope that they have bought somewhere else.Also lots of bass guys wanting to convert to crappie fishing its unreal.

 

[Spurhunter]

I think everybody and there mommas are getting it.You would be surprised if you saw how many are selling locally and people that stop by asking questions about livescope that they have bought somewhere else.Also lots of bass guys wanting to convert to crappie fishing its unreal.

What's your opinion on Livescope vs. Livescope Plus?

 

[bluball]

Can see fish better at farther out distances,,less dead spots and less screen clutter.Until 35ft out there pretty close though,32 just has some dead spots every now and then.

 

[Dbllunger]

I think everybody and there mommas are getting it.You would be surprised if you saw how many are selling locally and people that stop by asking questions about livescope that they have bought somewhere else.Also lots of bass guys wanting to convert to crappie fishing its unreal.

So the bassholes are converting to crapholes? Lort help us!

 

[FLTENNHUNTER1]

I hope as many bass fisherman switch over as possible. Wouldn't break my heart at all! Too many already!!

 

[WTM]

I think everybody and there mommas are getting it.You would be surprised if you saw how many are selling locally and people that stop by asking questions about livescope that they have bought somewhere else.Also lots of bass guys wanting to convert to crappie fishing its unreal.

local bass guys wont matter much, most cant catch a 15lb limit. i think the crappie are safe.

my count last year was about 1 in 4 livescope boats on the water. honestly i havent been on the water much this year to notice so there may be an uptick in them, but i dont fish on the north end anymore. its always gotten hammered up there anyway.

 

[WTM]

"MANY" years ago, the top fisheries biologist school in the country was probably Auburn University. At the time, we were all taught, from Auburn research, that sport fishing had little if any impact on any sportfish population.

It didn't take too many years for that thought process to go by the wayside.

Letting folks do what they want to means mega $$$$$ to wildlife agencies. If I had to make a guess, there won't be any adjustment to this new technology until it is almost past the point of no return. We have seen this agency/commission level thought process throughout the country with the decline in turkeys.

The new tech stuff wasn't a big deal for a while because it was super expensive, and not many folks were using it. Once it becomes the norm rather than the exception, you WILL see fish populations go down the toilet. All of you in here, including the ones now using that tech, know that the increased pressure is not sustainable.

I guess enjoy it while you can??

maybe but i remember a couple of years ago we had a discussion on here and elsewhere where folks was claiming the asian carp was eating baitfish when the baitfish disappeared that first year. most werent paying attention to the freezing weather we had that winter and all of the bait kills. thats when they had the meeting in paris from the hysteria and some fishermen were calling for a 12" length creel like in mississippi. broadbent and fiss actually did their jobs and dissuaded that notion. it could have been disasterous for ky lake if they had per an exact study on the subject from tennessee tech. the "feel good" creel change didnt have an effect except bringing a state wide creel limit more in line. two years later the bait fish was back with a vengeance and the crappie and bass spawns somewhat better.

i was watching an nwtf presentation last night where by their data the turkey population had started declining somewhat in 1985, while they were still stocking. then he said there was a larger decline in the last 20 years or so, since about 2004. i was thinking today how that related to fishing on ky lake. two commonalities, weather and habitat. its probably a culmination of many different things and will probably have to be solved nationally with all state agencies working together. that said i dont think reaping, decoy spreads or other tech are a major cause of the problem. im just wondering if turkeys are not a sustainable resource and will need a restocking program again in the future?

one thing is for sure, there is a little more crappie than a few years ago, seems like a little less asian carp and ive seen a bunch of young poults in the fields around the house. sometimes i think we need to look up from our tech sometimes and take notice.

i have no use for the politics of the commission. my old supervisor was a commissioner, she was a drunk who sometimes sauger fished and friends with ray bell was about all of her qualifications.

 

[bluball]

local bass guys wont matter much, most cant catch a 15lb limit. i think the crappie are safe.

my count last year was about 1 in 4 livescope boats on the water. honestly i havent been on the water much this year to notice so there may be an uptick in them, but i dont fish on the north end anymore. its always gotten hammered up there anyway.

Anyone can catch them with livescope if they put alittle work into it,its that easy.Definately wouldnt count the bass guys converting to crappie with livescope out.Theres even guys catching 50-100 redear in the summer in a couple hours using livescope.Hanging out with customers while working with my buddy you would be amazed at the pics of all the fish they are catching.

 

[Mcboom]

I must be the worst fisherman ever. I have a live scope and still cant catch a limit!

 

[WTM]

Anyone can catch them with livescope if they put alittle work into it,its that easy.Definately wouldnt count the bass guys converting to crappie with livescope out.Theres even guys catching 50-100 redear in the summer in a couple hours using livescope.Hanging out with customers while working with my buddy you would be amazed at the pics of all the fish they are catching.

yeah for a certain area but once those are fished then folks are like until someone tells them more spots or they get lucky. lakes like ky lake probably wont have a problem but these small lakes will probably get hammered. two things about most human beings, laziness and greediness.

thats another point that needs to be addressed and that is endorcement and creel checks. imo, twra doesnt do enough of but then again their hands are tied for now, i imagine with the new acts and bills that john stevens is trying to pass. creel checks without a warrant might be the norm especially if a poacher with a little money can find another liberal judge that hates law enforcement to side with him.

 

[killingtime 41]

live scope looks like it takes most of the fun out of it to me.They don't allow drones to hunt with. Why live scope to fish. ?

 

[Mud Creek]

I'm afraid livescope and it's "effect" will be kind of like what social media hunting shows have done to hunting. Sure some people can watch those shows, maybe get a little useful info, apply it if needed and keep trucking. They'd probably eventually get it down regardless. On the other hand, some watch the crap religiously, and couldn't do/buy squat without just copying whatever *insert gimmicky sounding outdoors channel name here* says they should do/buy. You then have to share the woods with these googans and deal with their shenanigans.

I don't think it gets touted as this magic device that gurentees success, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking that's what the average person who buys/wants one is hoping for and lots of it. I don't mind DIE HARD fisherman(novice or pro) catching fish or learning how to catch them, it's when the TRY HARD crowd shows up and messes with the "art" of doing a thing that drives me nuts!

To add to the 2 fisherman 1 brush pile example, I imagine that happens A LOT but, that same scenario can happen without livescope. I've fished sxs with friends. Same bait, line,etc. and it just seems some days they like it a certain way. Do you think after the guy who knows current gets his limit the scoper won't be over there trying? Or the next day and every day after because he now knows he saw someone catch a limit there. All the while he's on that side trying to figure it out, that other side of the pile won't stay empty, it will be used by someone else whose watching him.

Live scope does give an advantage to some who just do not need to have it IMO. We will be seeing a generation of younger fisherman who know no other way and think it's the best thing ever same as they do with cell phones, fb, etc. The "old way" will be so far removed that they know it all because the screen says so.



More power to whoever uses, has,likes,needs,or wants them but I'm afraid they will do more harm than good when we look back on them 20 years from now. At least that's my fear, far fetched as it may seem to some.

 

[woodsman04]

Crappie are prolific breeders and grow really fast in good conditions. That's why I think they haven't seen much impact on their creel surveys and all.

But as others have said, I am pretty certain the technology used in turkey hunting has caused a lot of decline. Plus there are too many turkey hunters because of social media.
Crappie fishing may have the same thing happening to it when everyone has a livescope. And with the livescope plus, spider rigging into schools of crappie just got that much easier.

I do not think livescope is cheating by no means. Not yet anyways. But I do see how it can create an unfair advantage.

By the way, I have a livescope, and I can't catch a fish with it period no matter what species. Haha

 

[RUGER]

One thing for sure that was reinforced again this morning is you might can find them and see them but if they won't eat that don't mean squat.

If it wasn't for @cbhunter I would have went hungry tonight!

 

[Spurhunter]

By the way, I have a livescope, and I can't catch a fish with it period no matter what species. Haha

You aren't alone. I fished with a guy Thursday that is a livescope guru. He is just phenomenal. We caught keeper #30 at 11:20. There were 2 guys in another boat livescoping in the same area we were in all morning. We loaded up at the same time. They had 2. The learning curve is real.