L. B. L. V/S CATOOSA

[missalot]

Which
WOULD YOU HUNT CATOOSA OR lbl

 

[mountain man 71]

LBL

 

[TN RDG RNR]

LBL

 

[PinchPoint]

No comparison. LBL

 

[tailchaser]

LBL

 

[PSEhunter]

We have hunted LBL every opening weekend for over 10 years. You might see a couple of deer... Why do we go back? It's a fun trip, not for the deer.

 

[Bow Hunter]

LBL every time.

 

[FoxTail10]

LBL waaaaaaaay better

 

[Barnes Ridge Rambler]

Only ever been to Catoosa. But I hear good things about LBL.

 

[RutnStrut]

I have hunted both, but I am partial to Catoosa because I enjoy riding my ATV to my hunting spot. Makes the drag alot easier too.

 

[TN Larry]

LBL

 

[Hill Country Hunter]

I have hunted both, but I am partial to Catoosa because I enjoy riding my ATV to my hunting spot. Makes the drag alot easier too.

Are you allowed to ride your ATV off road at Catoosa?

 

[morgancountry]

I have hunted both, but I am partial to Catoosa because I enjoy riding my ATV to my hunting spot. Makes the drag alot easier too.

Are you allowed to ride your ATV off road at Catoosa?

No, but many do anyway! There are plenty of signs saying foot traffic only that get ignored all the time. Many good ridges have been ruined out there with atv trails down the middle of them. I wish they were outlawed during hunting season there too. Just my opinion.

 

[Hill Country Hunter]

I have hunted both, but I am partial to Catoosa because I enjoy riding my ATV to my hunting spot. Makes the drag alot easier too.

Are you allowed to ride your ATV off road at Catoosa?

No, but many do anyway! There are plenty of signs saying foot traffic only that get ignored all the time. Many good ridges have been ruined out there with atv trails down the middle of them. I wish they were outlawed during hunting season there too. Just my opinion.

Same at Prentice Cooper and many of the state forests I have been on. If it's legal, fine, go for it (though I'll look for a different place most of the time). But it burns me up to spend an hour carrying a stand a mile in the dark to get away from other hunters clustered around the ATV-legal roads, but just before daylight here comes some lazy criminal on an ATV cruising right by my tree. And too often, they and their buddies run back and for along a bench or through a gap often enough to turn what would be an outstanding, remote deer funnel into just another washed out mudhole.

 

[TheLBLman]

But it burns me up to spend an hour carrying a stand a mile in the dark to get away from other hunters clustered around the ATV-legal roads, but just before daylight here comes some lazy criminal on an ATV cruising right by my tree.

Totally agree with you.
ATV policy has turned Catoosa more into an ATV recreation area than a place for hunters to enjoy going hunting. At least at LBL, they allow ATV's only in a relatively few designated areas (and they do enforce their rules).

But other than that, ATV policy being the real deal-breaker for me, Catoosa WMA is aesthetically more appealing than LBL, and may now have nearly as many deer. The extensive habitat work of the past few years has really improved Catoosa's carrying capacity --- especially those huge oak savannahs. But after being over-run by ATV's (on illegal logging trails) I have no plans to ever go back hunting to Catoosa or any other WMA with similar ATV policy. IMO, TWRA is losing support from hunters over this policy, which has ruined the true hunting experience. Many recreationists are spending more time unloading their ATV's than it would have taken them to walk to their hunting spots.

Perhaps a better solution might be to make at least half of Catoosa ATV-free during the deer and turkey seasons?

 

[pse2]

LBL

 

[Buzzard Breath]

I really don't think you can compare the two. There are definitely two different mentalities that hunt both places. When you hunt LBL, you don't find/see the trash and illegal off-road trails that you see at Catoosa. It almost seems as though the hunters realize that hunting at LBL is a privilege and not a right. They seem to take much better care of the resources there.

At Catoosa, it is just the opposite. Lots of trash, illegal off-road trails, running ATV's up and down the road all day long. There's even a guy that puts up a mailbox the says "As---le" at the entrance to their camp. It's pretty obvious that folks at Catoosa think the hunt and property is owed to them and they treat it accordingly. I bet there are already abandoned trailers, tents, and tarps set-up so that people can claim their camping spots for the November hunts.

Catoosa has a lot of potential, but until they clean the place up, I will continue to drive across the state to hunt LBL.

 

[mimitk]

LBL for me they have a great deer mgmt going they actually plant food plots and try to get protein for the deer . Catoosa is not quality deer mgmt area it is a TMA ( Timber Mgmt Area) no high quality food plots just a strip of wheat around a 3 acre field oh yeah I forgot also milo planted in food plots about all I see Catoosa has got is a lot of trees for them to cut I just wonder we're all that $ goes

 

[TheLBLman]

Catoosa has a lot of potential . . . .

I agree, and perhaps more potential to be growing larger bucks than LBL.

Many people are not aware that TN's current #1 state record typical buck came from the edge of Catoosa WMA, and back in the 1960's, there were several B&C bucks taken on Catoosa. But the timber matured (low food resources) and the hunting pressure was too great for a continuance of top-end bucks.

That said, MAJOR strides have been taken over the past few years to make Catoosa WMA into a very high quality deer habitat showcase. All that timber cutting which some mistakenly think is a bad thing for deer --- that may be what causes Catoosa to pass LBL on habitat quality (for deer). Currently, most of LBL is mature timber (although there are specific areas of LBL that have been converted to oak savanna, similarly to same being done at Catoosa). Mostly mature timber is actually about the worst food source for deer, so regarding timber management, Catoosa is surpassing LBL (for deer). The fields and food plots at either Catoosa or LBL are of little relevance (one place vs. the other) since both places are over 95% wooded.

There are deer-management differences between Catoosa and LBL, with LBL favoring bowhunters, while Catoosa favors gun hunters. Not to mention, kill one buck at LBL and you're done until next year. You can kill more than one at Catoosa. Some people find this out the hard way at LBL, as they kill a buck during the early archery season, then go on a doe-only gun hunt (which would have been either-sex for them had they not killed a buck during early archery).

If you get drawn for a gun hunt at Catoosa, you will be allowed to kill a buck on that hunt. By contrast, an LBL draw hunt (gun) will say you cannot kill a buck if you've already taken one with archery tackle prior to the draw hunt. If you want more opportunity to hunt with a gun, and be able to kill more than 1 buck during a year, Catoosa trumps LBL by a huge margin.

Currently, LBL provides a greater opportunity to take "a" larger antlered buck (my opinion), but mainly during the archery season, since gun hunting is limited to no more than 2 days annually to any one person (and you cannot expect to be drawn for an LBL gun hunt each year). If one place has more larger bucks, but doesn't let you hunt them but 2 days every other year, while the other area has fewer and allows you to hunt there 20 days annually, which place offers you more opportunity (with a gun)?

In the meantime, the real "deal-breaker" for me regarding Catoosa is all the ATV traffic. For me, that ruins the hunting experience I seek. But make no mistake, Catoosa is now growing some much larger bucks than compared to the recent past, and the potential for HUGE bucks is definitely there. It's a beautiful place, and I'm very impressed with the extensive habitat improvements that have been made recently at Catoosa. Those who haven't driven thru it in a few years, be worth your time just to drive thru.

So guess it depends on just what you're wanting from your hunting experience, as well as convenience to it. If I lived on the edge of Catoosa, doubt I'd be making many trips to LBL.

 

[AT Hiker]

Currently, most of LBL is mature timber (although there are specific areas of LBL that have been converted to oak savanna, similarly to same being done at Catoosa). Mostly mature timber is actually about the worst food source for deer, so regarding timber management,

The Oak Savanna is actually what our habitat was like in a lot of the areas in this geographic location, of course Elk used to roam here as well.

I really like the oak savanna, lots of high starch foods with a good amount of thick underbrush for bedding, food, and cover for other critters. However, there are lots of areas in LBL that need timber harvest ASAP, that hinders the whitetail potential. The turkeys are seem to be doing good with this practice though which is suspected.

I think if LBL did more prescribed timber management (geared toward wildlife as well) it would be one of the best habitats for trophy class deer (including overall herd health) this state has.

Even with their current management, which I think is good, it is still a great place to hunt with plenty of huntable mature deer. Lots of areas you have to walk over a mile to to be able to hunt exist in LBL, which sounds like Catoosa lacks. Like others say, the serenity of LBL and other areas I hunt is what makes it such an enjoyable hunt. If I kill something that just makes it that much better. Plus the chance at a "trophy" or mature deer makes it even more appealing.

With all that said, if I was after a true "trophy" deer (as far as score goes) I would hit up Ft Campbell, but that is a different story all together.

 

[TheLBLman]

The Oak Savanna is actually what our habitat was like in a lot of the areas in this geographic location, of course Elk used to roam here as well.

I really like the oak savanna, lots of high starch foods with a good amount of thick underbrush for bedding, food, and cover for other critters. However, there are lots of areas in LBL that need timber harvest ASAP, that hinders the whitetail potential. . . . . . Like others say, the serenity of LBL and other areas I hunt is what makes it such an enjoyable hunt.

With all that said, if I was after a true "trophy" deer (as far as score goes) I would hit up Ft Campbell, but that is a different story all together.

I totally agree.

What's changed is that much of that mature timber at Catoosa has been recently cut, and there are now some beautiful oak savannas at Catoosa. If it weren't for the the ATV's, there would be more solitude at Catoosa than LBL. Sometimes, if you're downwind from either lake, LBL can also be kinda noisy with outboard boat engines and waterfowl hunters blasting. Just seems to be little opportunity to escape all the distracting human noises while trying to enjoy some solitude deer hunting.

Ft. Campbell trumps all our WMA's in terms of real opportunity for a high-scoring buck ---- but you REALLY won't get any solitude there (most days). The sound of artillery and helicopters often drowns out everything else (although the deer don't seem to mind). Might be more potential for a higher scoring buck at President's Island, but virtually no real opportunity to hunt there. Real opportunity at Ft. Campbell, gun or bow.

 

[tailchaser]

Ive hunted Catoosa since the late 70s,off n on.Years ago seem like you seen more deer,then got to not seeing many ,then got better, they also planted things years ago,then went to more or less just habitat and started the 4 on one side rule,I swear Ive not seen many deer since they started that,although Ive killed deer,just don't see many especially young bucks,I don't understand that.also I don't have a problem with people riding there 4 wheelers to and from where they hunt, its the ones that just ride up and down the road all day that gripes me,I think Catossa could be a real place if there was a few changes ,the main one is not having 500,000 people hunting it,to me thats the biggest problem it's like a freaking worlds fair up there,

 

[switchbacker]

As big as catoosa is, why not make it like lbl. Hear me out,, make a permit and charge the same 25 as lbl, and do two draws 1) juvenile 2) gun. Only my thinking, but how many are killed at catoosa in a week long open hunt and now 2 draw hunts? Even better, how many times have you found a ground checked buck? Too many acres for too few hunts in my opinion

 

[TheLBLman]

As big as catoosa is, why not make it like lbl. Hear me out,, make a permit and charge the same 25 as lbl, and do two draws 1) juvenile 2) gun.

Why not make it like President's Island WMA?
Just have a single weekend of archery-only buck hunting annually, only bucks with 9 or more points legal, and only let 100 hunters have that opportunity annually.

While I'm not serious about making the hunting regs at Catoosa like President's Island, I do think the main reason there are not more large antlered bucks roaming Catoosa is because there is simply too much deer hunting allowed there with firearms.

As a sidenote, LBL is managed as a national recreation area, and the gun deer hunting is limited mainly out of political correctness and so as not to offend other "users" of the area. ATV's are generally not allowed due to the environmental damage they are thought to cause (except in an off-road "recreational" area where hunting is not allowed), as well as the noise they make which offends most other "users". By contrast, Catoosa is truly a wildlife management area, where hunting was one of the main reasons for its creation, and no surprise, hunters are provided lots of hunting opportunity at Catoosa.

LBL is owned by the federal government; Catoosa is owned by TWRA.

 

[Buzzard Breath]

As big as catoosa is, why not make it like lbl. Hear me out,, make a permit and charge the same 25 as lbl, and do two draws 1) juvenile 2) gun. Only my thinking, but how many are killed at catoosa in a week long open hunt and now 2 draw hunts? Even better, how many times have you found a ground checked buck? Too many acres for too few hunts in my opinion

I somewhat agree about making the regs more like LBL. I've spent a little time thinking about Catoosa the past couple days and these are just some of my quick thoughts.

- Archery season is the same as statewide seasons. Closes one day before draw hunts. Very few people are going to bowhunt once the gun seasons start, so this leaves the WMA open for small game hunter from early November till the end of the season.

- 2 November draw hunts. Same as exists.

- Leave the December open gun hunt. This is the first year for the longer hunt, so I'm not sure what to expect, but few people ever hunted the open hunt before.

- 1 antlered buck per license year (bonus buck), no antler restrictions. Leave the doe harvest up to the biologists to determine. I'm not smart enough or qualified to determine what is best.

- Camping $5 per night. Do sort of an honor system where the money gets deposited at the check station through a drop box and a card with the receipt number must be attached to the camper/tent/school bus.

- Close the Bi-color section to ATV's for a year as a warning to the illegal off-roaders that they could loose the privilege completely if they can't follow rules. This may not be possible due to deed restrictions such as North Cumberland has.

 

[mimitk]

I don't think the harvest per acres at catoosa is up I think it is down

 

[Boone 58]

LBl.

 

[Super8]

Seen a pic of a 26 point in velvet killed opening weekend at LBL

Always have liked that area of TN

 

[Headhunter]

I have spent a lot of time on Catoosa and it is the only place I have ever hunted that I have not killed a deer, had chances on does but never on even a small buck. It is one of the most besutiful places in TN but to me a sorry deer killing (note not hunting) place. It has been several years, but I used to know some people who are "backwoods" type people and they will tell you that Catoosa is poached yearround and that in my opinion is the main reason why killing a deer there is so tough in my thinking. Very recently, someone was putting out the nail strips over the pig hunting issue. They even told me that they cornered a game warden and told him to leave the county and if they ever saw him again that it would not be good for him. I always took the game warden story with a grain of salt, but the poaching stories I believed. I do not live there and have spent very little time there and am not completely sure that those people are still in the area, but I do think there is a small group of people in that area that approach "hunting" in a completely different way than most do.

 

[TheLBLman]

"It has been several years . . . ."

For those more accustomed to hunting farms rather than "big woods", both LBL and Catoosa could be disappointing regarding the deer "killing" opportunities.

Both areas are well over 95% wooded (very unlike where most hunters kill their deer in TN). The fields compose a relatively small percentage of the landscape at both Catoosa & LBL, those fields attract many hunters, then end up being used by the older deer mainly at night.

I'm not saying that most hunters statewide kill their deer in fields rather than woods, but instead pointing out a difference in these 50,000-plus acre tracts (over 95% wooded) compared to a similar-sized acreage of private land in most any TN county (which may be less than 50% wooded). It takes some different hunting tactics to successfully hunt big woods compared to big farming areas, as the deer are much more random roaming the big woods, whereas they are more patternable in big agricultural areas.

Both LBL and Catoosa have had major poaching problems in the past, and may still. My earlier posts were more about the habitat changes, where on Catoosa it has been more dramatic in increasing the quality of the habitat for deer . . . . . and this has just happened over the past few years. Catoosa's habitat is majorly different (and better) than it was over 5 years ago. Significant habitat improvements have also been made at LBL, just more dramatic at Catoosa.