Jug Testing

[GOODWIN]

Since my 19mo twin girls drink a gallon of milk every other day I decided to start saving the milk jugs to do a little redneck ballistic test. I'm headed west in Oct for a elk hunt and have been shooting and reloading for two different rifles trying to make a decision on which one to take with me. First up 7mm RM shooting a 168gr Berger Classic Hunter. Next 30-06 shooting a 180gr Sierra GameKing btsp. I've not chronographed either of these loads but I'd imagine the Berger is traveling 200fps or more than the Sierra at the muzzle. I'd give the accuracy edge to my 7mm RM, but the 30-06 is about a pound lighter and still shoots pretty consistent sub-moa out to 300yds. Hope to shoot further in the near future. These are the two loads I've worked up in these rifles. If I change anything at all I may push the Sierra's a tad faster to see what happens. The trajectory of them vs the faster, lighter berger is significant. I wanted to shoot them at close range (40 yds) to see how the bullet would perform. I'd like to shoot them at 300 or further when I save up some more milk jugs. Granted these are two totally different calibers, bullets, and velocity but results were kind of expected. I've read several accounts of the Bergers "blowing up" at close range. I wanted to see for myself. Did shoot a second Berger and all I recovered was the copper cup. Berger does state that their bullet is designed to penetrate a few inches and then fragment. I'm sure this would be fine on soft tissue but I can't help to be skeptical if it hits an elk shoulder if it would get the needed penetration. Got a couple videos but I don't know how to post.

168gr Berger recovered in the 4th jug

180gr Sierra recovered in 5th jug

Second Berger only recovered the cup. Lead and copper fragments in jug as well.

 

[TNRifleman]

Either one in the boiler room at 300 yards = dead elk

 

[JimFromTN]

I have experienced the 180 gr gamekings blowing up at close ranges out of my 300 win mag on a pig hunt in GA. Probably be ok with a 30/06. Personally for a hunt out west, I would go with a premium bullet like a partition.

 

[Hunter 257W]

"Redneck ballistic Test"?? Hey, you're criticizing my most scientific bullet testing methods! Seriously, I've been anxious to see these results ever since you said you intended to do it. Now I'm going to have to wait till I get home so I can see the pictures. Sounds like the Berger came apart pretty bad but I'd ask how likely it is to shoot an elk that close where you will be hunting? Of course they still might be blowing up at 100 yards and at that point the likelihood of getting such a shot while hunting goes way up. This is exactly why the 2 boxes of .257 Berger 120 grain bullets that I waited for a year are still in the box. I know they'd shoot wonderfully flat out of my 257 Weatherby, but as sure as I go out with them in the chamber, a buck of a lifetime would come down the fencerow I'm sitting in and only offer a quartering away shot at 50 feet. OK, further comments will have to wait till I can see the pictures.

 

[Hunter 257W]

I see it now. The 1st Berger did fairly well for so close a range. You could reasonably hope that with another 100 yards of velocity loss it might do ok on deer or even elk. But that 2nd one shows that the design just isn't up to that impact velocity.

 

[Deer Assassin]

id load 160 accubond for elk in 7 mag just my opinon

i have killed several with 140 berger at 3000 fps in 7/08 close did fine

i have loaded 168 berger in 7 saum killed sever close and one at 330 2775 ml vel (light load )

all my results on tn deer fyi

never killed an elk

 

[jlanecr500]

Jug testing is much more like the real thing than people think. I do a lot of jug testing for my smokeless ML's shooting 250 to 300 gr projectiles sabotless at around 2800 to 3000 fps. Of the projectiles I have tested, they came out of a deer looking very similar to the jug tested ones. A 250 TEZ barnes at 2777 fps passed thru 7 jugs and stopped in number 8. I have NEVER recovered one of the TEZ's from a deer. The Bonded TC shockwave with the blue tip at the same speed passed thru 1 jug and stopped in the second. It mushroomed perfectly and the bonded core stuck to the jacket. The point is that if they blow up in the jug test, they will do the same in a deer...

 

[GOODWIN]

Jug testing is much more like the real thing than people think. I do a lot of jug testing for my smokeless ML's shooting 250 to 300 gr projectiles sabotless at around 2800 to 3000 fps. Of the projectiles I have tested, they came out of a deer looking very similar to the jug tested ones. A 250 TEZ barnes at 2777 fps passed thru 7 jugs and stopped in number 8. I have NEVER recovered one of the TEZ's from a deer. The Bonded TC shockwave with the blue tip at the same speed passed thru 1 jug and stopped in the second. It mushroomed perfectly and the bonded core stuck to the jacket. The point is that if they blow up in the jug test, they will do the same in a deer...

Good to know. At what distance do you test? Wonder why the shockwave only passed thru one jug if it held together?

I plan to do more jug testing in the future. Pretty fun to watch them explode and recover your bullet. I'd thought about putting a piece of plywood or something similar to simulate bone in front. Back to chugging milk.

 

[GOODWIN]

id load 160 accubond for elk in 7 mag just my opinon

i have killed several with 140 berger at 3000 fps in 7/08 close did fine

i have loaded 168 berger in 7 saum killed sever close and one at 330 2775 ml vel (light load )

all my results on tn deer fyi

never killed an elk

Did the 140 bergers exit? Could tell anything about the bullet when cleaning the deer? I have no doubt the berger would work fine on deer if put in the right spot. I've never had any kind of bullet fail me when I did my part. After examining the jugs and what was left of the bergers it was pretty obvious that they do not hold together at that impact velocity. Which could make for a quicker kill in some instances I would think but may lack the necessary penetration when weird angles and bigger bones come into play.

 

[GOODWIN]

I see it now. The 1st Berger did fairly well for so close a range. You could reasonably hope that with another 100 yards of velocity loss it might do ok on deer or even elk. But that 2nd one shows that the design just isn't up to that impact velocity.

Yea most likely if I get a shot it'll be over 40yds but this really just for test purposes. My luck I'll tote around the heavier rifle prepared for a 400yd shot and they will be in my lap. Good problem to have but would like to have confidence in the bullet I'm throwing down range. Few years ago dad and I went after antelope in wide open country prepared for long shots. Had our rifles zeroed for 300yds. His 7mm-08 and my .243. His shot was 50yds and mine was 75yds.

 

[Sniper]

Goodwin my advise is to not take a chance and go with a premium bonded bullet. I know the Bergers are accurate but based on your test I wouldn't use them on something the size of an elk. I just wouldn't take a chance on it. I would start with an Accubond and go up from there to a Swift A-frame or a North Fork. Just my $.02.

 

[Deer Assassin]

bergers passed through no problem

i prefer wet phone books bug jugs are easier and live game is most accurate


7 mag 160 accubond and sleep well

 

[jlanecr500]

Jug testing is much more like the real thing than people think. I do a lot of jug testing for my smokeless ML's shooting 250 to 300 gr projectiles sabotless at around 2800 to 3000 fps. Of the projectiles I have tested, they came out of a deer looking very similar to the jug tested ones. A 250 TEZ barnes at 2777 fps passed thru 7 jugs and stopped in number 8. I have NEVER recovered one of the TEZ's from a deer. The Bonded TC shockwave with the blue tip at the same speed passed thru 1 jug and stopped in the second. It mushroomed perfectly and the bonded core stuck to the jacket. The point is that if they blow up in the jug test, they will do the same in a deer...

Good to know. At what distance do you test? Wonder why the shockwave only passed thru one jug if it held together?

I plan to do more jug testing in the future. Pretty fun to watch them explode and recover your bullet. I'd thought about putting a piece of plywood or something similar to simulate bone in front. Back to chugging milk.

The test was done at 50 yards. The shockwave ended up about quarter size and did lose some mass but the jacket stayed attached to the lead. the pieces of jacket that did come off still had lead attached to them because they are a bonded bullet. I have tested some of the 2 dollar each premium high bc hunting bullets for smokeless ML's at the same speeds and they exploded. I need to test further but recently found the 300 SST to pass thru 4 jugs so it has promise. Since I kill most deer with a ML, I have concentrated on testing those projectiles. I plan to test 30 cal Accubonds in the future but can't drink milk fast enough. lol

 

[BobTail]

Let's be honest ......... ANY bullet is likely to fail if the shot is misplaced. Therein lies the entire story. Having not killed an elk I can not offer personal experience, but my brother has taken several. He has used Partitions as well as Berger hunting bullets. Both did the job. He prefers the Bergers because they resulted in the animal dropping where it stood. HOWEVER, none of these elk were shot through the shoulder. That being said, if you use Google you can find praise for the Bergers as well as swearing at them. If I were going to spend all of that money, and travel that far, I would choose a bullet that is time proven to do the job. This would definitely be the Sierra or the Partition. I have used Berger bullets on antelope and black bear on several occasions with awesome results. But I was prepared to take shots that didn't require a bone breaking bullet. Can't say what would have happened if that would have been the case.

If the Sierras are accurate enough to suit your needs I wouldn't hesitate to use them.

 

[TraumaSlave]

Synthetic vs dynoed oil, Huntz vs Heinz ketchup, the internet is full of opinions. All if the higher end bullets designed for a purpose will perform for that purpose. Exit wounds for tracking tell me that energy was not delivered. A shot in the box destroying vital organs is what matters. Find a load that works best for the rifle and stick with it. JMHO

 

[GOODWIN]

I understand dead is dead. Never been one to dwell on broadhead or bullet selection. But can't blame a guy for wanting an accurate, dependable bullet that will kill with ease no matter the situation. The test was far from scientific but fun nonetheless. I plan to do more of it. Stay tuned.

Ketchup test coming soon. I'll give the edge to Heinz but I may be a little bias already.

 

[TraumaSlave]

No offense intended. Hope it was not taken that way. My vote is for Heinz too.