Smokeless h4198 and cold temps bit me

[Deer Assassin]

2.75 hours @ 17 degrees 120-130 inch 8 point 80-100 yds misfire

63.4 h 4198 had it happen last year but i blamed it on the barnes bullet as it does not fit as tight as the sst

i think i will duplex next year with sr 4759

and switch primers from cci 209 to fed 209a


pretty buck lucky buck

 

[280longshot]

I've heard of that being an issue but now I know.

 

[Rubberduck270]

I duplex in my 700 ML but only for the extra speed. Just the primers may help with cold temps and H4198 but duplexing will fix it for sure.

 

[Deer Assassin]

i talked to ewc for a while last night

it will be ok


tomorrow and fri morn i will tote ole smoky as a back up just in case

 

[ratsnakeboogy]

I haven't had a misfire with the straight H4198 load as of yet, but when it's below 30 degrees I lose roughly 200fps. No such issue with the SR4759 duplex.

 

[tn gunman]

A duplex of 5/55 clays/H4198 with fed 209a, no ignition issues in the cold so far.

 

[ratsnakeboogy]

The faster boosters such as Clays, RedDot etc. are great in a bushing plug but most see serious wear using them in ventliner plugs. Are you seeing any issues or do you have a bushing plug?

 

[tasaman]

I've used CCI 209m primers in -10 deg. Was to light 4759 but regardless, they are not your issue IMO.

 

[mike243]

VN110 goes off in 12 or so

 

[Deer Assassin]

I've used CCI 209m primers in -10 deg. Was to light 4759 but regardless, they are not your issue IMO.

mine are not the magnums but the plain cci 209

i know they are not the problem as well but i am still going to switch

 

[TN Larry]

I may have had the same problem this morning if presented with a shot. It will be okay though after coming back up to temp, right? Because I am going again in the morning with the same load.......

Mine did go off last Fri with lower 20s. I do shoot the Fed 209a.

 

[cecil30-30]

Gotta love N120. .. I'd be irate if my smokeless miss fired on a deer that size

 

[BULL MOOSE]

What is a duplex?

 

[a retrohillbilly]

Might have been that cream of wheat I mixed in the can....

 

[fullstream]

What is a duplex?

When you use 2 powders, most use 4759 at 10gns as first load as it is a quick burn starter and 50gns of 4198 as a primary.

This is my go to load in my apex. There's supposedly some benefit of getting the bullet to spin faster (orbitration) or something like that but I honestly have no clue about it.

The gurus at doug's could explain better.

 

[BirdDog123]

When you use 2 powders, most use 4759 at 10gns as first load as it is a quick burn starter and 50gns of 4198 as a primary.

This is my go to load in my apex. There's supposedly some benefit of getting the bullet to spin faster (orbitration) or something like that but I honestly have no clue about it.

The gurus at doug's could explain better.

This is exactly what I've been using. I don't have much experience under my belt (this is my first season) but I started out having misfires and now I haven't had one yet with this duplex load.

 

[Tenn.Guy]

What is a duplex?

When you use 2 powders, most use 4759 at 10gns as first load as it is a quick burn starter and 50gns of 4198 as a primary.

This is my go to load in my apex. There's supposedly some benefit of getting the bullet to spin faster (orbitration) or something like that but I honestly have no clue about it.

The gurus at doug's could explain better.

Curious. If you duplex that load and have it lined up to that, how different is the POI with 60gr 4198?

I was thinking for quicker pupose maybe have the duplex load for first shot(knowing it will fire in cold temps), but have straight 4198 for quick loads ?

 

[Deer Assassin]

ha ha. Good one

 

[Deer Assassin]

Gotta love N120. .. I'd be irate if my smokeless miss fired on a deer that size

na. Bucks come and go. Gettn pissed won't help. I'll just have an extra tag when I come out east

 

[Roost 1]

24 degrees when I left truck... Left gun in truck over-night.. 7:30 2 does come out, 3 mis-fires in a row... Reset bullet between each. Stood on ramrod after 3rd misfire, went off on 4th try after deer were long gone... Alrhough I havent ever had this problem before, I will be duplexing from now on!!!!

 

[WGK]

I agree it's a little slower on the reload but when I compared the to loads my apex shot a tighter group with the Duplex. And a wool was under the sabot.

 

[TheLBLman]

2.75 hours @ 17 degrees 120-130 inch 8 point 80-100 yds misfire

63.4 h 4198 had it happen last year . . . . . . .

. . . . . I started out having misfires.

24 degrees when I left truck... Left gun in truck over-night.. 7:30 2 does come out, 3 mis-fires in a row... !!!!

One of the main reasons I went the "smokeless" route was for the ultimate in RELIABILITY. To me, gains in velocity, accuracy, and range have just been a bonus. Well, much easier cleaning was also another MAIN reason or a huge bonus. But for just another 100 to 200 fps, some of you are willing to sacrifice that great RELIABILITY in some great cold deer hunting weather?

Gotta love N120. .. I'd be irate if my smokeless miss fired on a deer that size

I agree, Cecil, but unfortunately, N120 is no longer an available option. So now what?

Reading about some of your experiences with H 4198 in little more than just good cold deer-hunting weather is making a strong case for the old standby and ultimate in reliability, AA5744. Never a worry about the gun shooting, no matter how cold, or whether you're using a Federal 209A or a CCI primer.

I mean, what's the value of an extra 200 fps if you can't rely on your gun to even shoot? What am I missing here?
It may be that you guys are just way too complicated for my single-based, non-duplexed simple mind, with our without the wool on top. :mrgreen:

 

[TheLBLman]

I do not consider AA5744 to be as reliable as some portray it to be. . . . . .
I hope this info helps. I researched extensively and consulted with engineers from a company that I used to work for. If anyone disagrees with any of this info, I am open to correction. After all, you can't believe everything you read on the internet.

I certainly don't disagree with anything you just posted --- great info ---- appreciated.

Regarding the reliability of AA5744, I'm just not aware of anything else "as" reliable.
No matter what the powder, point your muzzleloader up in a pouring rain for a few seconds, let some water run down the bore and reach the powder, and good chance your muzzleloader will not shoot when you pull the trigger. It's easy to accidently do something like this with a muzzleloader, as it can only take a few seconds muzzle up when suddenly caught in the rain. Oh, but it was once so much worse when we had to worry about moisture getting in the nipple area of our sidelocks!

 

[Deer Assassin]

im sorry but the speed difference is more than a 1-200 fps

with my savage 50 and a 300 gn bullet i acheived 700 fps more than the same bullet and 105 loose 777

i have killed a few over 200 and one at 292 yds im not saying it can not be done with a inline and bp substitutes but it is alot eaiser with the higher speed smokeless

 

[TheLBLman]

im sorry but the speed difference is more than a 1-200 fps

with my savage 50 and a 300 gn bullet i acheived 700 fps more than the same bullet and 105 loose 777

Wouldn't doubt you for a second on that.
I meant a speed difference of comparing some of the "hotter" smokeless powders vs. a more "reliable" smokeless powder, specifically AA5744. In many cases, what hunters are shooting is only "around" 200 fps faster than if they were using AA5744.

Just "wondering" if I really want to trade greater reliability to fire, for a little higher velocity (AA5744 vs H4198).

 

[Deer Assassin]

im a lil slow wes

i got good speed with reloader 7 but liked h4198 cause of the extra 100 or so fps

i will duplex and be fine next year or may just try the reloader 7

dont care for aa5744 i have a jug at the house that is useless

opened brand new cat get more that 1000 fps with it and loaded 223 rounds only shoot 700 fps i am sure it is a bad lot but left a sour taste in my mouth