Georgia

[SEC]

I am not trying to start another 4 day war.But I just noticed that Georgia has 195 Boone and Crockett entries compared to Tennessee's 55.Can anyone tell me how this is possible.Again not trying to stir the pot.I just had no idea Georgia was producing that many monsters.

 

[AndyW]

Because Kenny Chesney ran all the good deer out of TN with his musical stylings?

Lmao! That explains why all the big deer are killed in south Georgia.

 

[horn master]

There are counties in Ga. that have been trophy managed since the late 80's. Their statewide limit for bucks is now 2 and 1 of those has to be at least 4 pts. on one side. The counties around Atlanta are bow only. I have killed 2 150" bucks from Elbert county on Richard B. Russell lake corp of engineers land. I have alot of buddies in Ga. and they shoot 140"s every year.

 

[horn master]

Oh and Ga. outdoor news has the truck buck contest for subscibers to gon. They take the biggest bucks each week and give the winner a mathews bow, cva muzzleloader or a browning rifle depending on which season you shot it. At the end of the year they have a shoot off with the weekly winners. The winner takes home a new silverado donated by John Megel chevrolet. The Gon outdoor blast is this coming up weekend in gwinnett county. 3 of my buddies are in the shoot off!

 

[Beardendy88]

I have hunted in brooks county and lowndes county and they have some great bucks.

 

[plinker22]

I was in school in Cobb County in the mid-80's. I am so glad I was not into deer then, otherwise, I probably would have failed out of school.

 

[Football Hunter]

Gotta be the regs and the dirt I guess,Ga has been a good big buck state for some time,well compared to other deep south states.

 

[AlabamaSwamper]

2 areas of GA produce giants.

The river bottoms of south GA along in what is also the same dirt as the Alabama blackbelt. I've rabbit hunted it and yes, there are some giants down there. The farm we hunt is 3600 acres. The family has 130" and 140" class deer hanging on the side of the barn. Their limit now is 150" except for dad who looks for 170"+ (he's 65 or so). He's got 3 over 170" from that farm.

Atlanta suburbs. I know some guys that hunt 10acre or less blocks in Cobb and Fulton Counties. (I think those are the two). Bow only.

They have several 140"+ bow kills and some of the trail cam pics will blow your mind they have.

 

[Boll Weevil]

I lived/hunted in GA several years ago, and while there are certainly some giants hitting the dirt it can be the land of the haves/have-nots in some areas of the state. In some counties it's an absolute bidding war, lease rates are sky-high, and finding good places to hunt is really challenging.

 

[BSK]

I am not trying to start another 4 day war.But I just noticed that Georgia has 195 Boone and Crockett entries compared to Tennessee's 55.Can anyone tell me how this is possible.Again not trying to stir the pot.I just had no idea Georgia was producing that many monsters.

Drive through the "big buck" areas of Georgia--agriculture, agriculture and more agriculture...

 

[TheLBLman]

Drive through the "big buck" areas of Georgia--agriculture, agriculture and more agriculture...

How does this differ from much of West Tennessee?

Is the Georgia dirt just better than our Mississippi floodplain soil?

 

[EastTNHunter]

Population in GA, last thing I knew, was also roughly twice that of TN.

 

[SEC]

Drive through the "big buck" areas of Georgia--agriculture, agriculture and more agriculture...

How does this differ from much of West Tennessee?

Is the Georgia dirt just better than our Mississippi floodplain soil?

I thought it was just peanuts growing in sand.

 

[horn master]

Alabama Swamper- That sounds like the Banks farm. Do you know Loyd? He has killed some whoopers. You can gun hunt in Fulton county south of highway 92. The bow only counties are Clayton, Cobb ,Dekalb and Fulton North of highway 92. I lived in Ga. for years. I graduated from Peachtree high school in Dekalb county. The biggest deer I have ever seen alive was on the Flint river. Booner for sure. I still have dreams of that one! LOL

 

[BSK]

Drive through the "big buck" areas of Georgia--agriculture, agriculture and more agriculture...

How does this differ from much of West Tennessee?

Is the Georgia dirt just better than our Mississippi floodplain soil?

What the big buck regions of GA have that the MS River floodplain section of West TN doesn't have is adequate timber for cover mixed into all the agriculture. Pull up Google Earth and go down the actual MS River floodplain section of West TN. Tons of agriculture with hardly a stick of standing cover. Now slide Southeast and look over the areas south of Atlanta down through Macon towards the FL border. Lots and lots of timber mixed into the agriculture. I would say those regions are 70% ag and 30% timber. THAT is a recipe for big bucks.

Far west TN has the soil and agriculture to grow big antlers. In fact, the soils are probably quite a bit better than in GA. But it doesn't have the woodland cover necessary to grow old bucks. Central and southern GA has the perfect mix of both--lots of agriculture to grow antlers with adequate amounts of forest cover to allow bucks to reach maturity.

 

[8 POINTS OR BETTER]

Far west TN has the soil and agriculture to grow big antlers. In fact, the soils are probably quite a bit better than in GA. [color:#FF0000]But it doesn't have the woodland cover necessary to grow old bucks.[/color] Central and southern GA has the perfect mix of both--lots of agriculture to grow antlers with adequate amounts of forest cover to allow bucks to reach maturity.

So, your saying you can have good dirt, but without age you want have big antlers.

I knew you would come around.

 

[BSK]

Far west TN has the soil and agriculture to grow big antlers. In fact, the soils are probably quite a bit better than in GA. [color:#FF0000]But it doesn't have the woodland cover necessary to grow old bucks.[/color] Central and southern GA has the perfect mix of both--lots of agriculture to grow antlers with adequate amounts of forest cover to allow bucks to reach maturity.

So, your saying you can have good dirt, but without age you want have big antlers.

I knew you would come around.

Certainly I'm saying that, as I always have. And I have also always said that with poor nutrition, you won't have "big antlers" even if you have age. Both are true.

 

[oldmanelrod]

Used to live in N GA. That area is very challenging. Lots of big woods (National Forrest), steep mountains. Deer populations not as high as the other parts of the state.

 

[TheLBLman]

Far west TN has the soil and agriculture to grow big antlers. In fact, the soils are probably quite a bit better than in GA. [color:#FF0000]But it doesn't have the woodland cover necessary to grow old bucks.[/color] Central and southern GA has the perfect mix of both--lots of agriculture to grow antlers with adequate amounts of forest cover to allow bucks to reach maturity.

So, your saying you can have good dirt, but without age you want have big antlers.

I knew you would come around.

Certainly I'm saying that, as I always have. And I have also always said that with poor nutrition, you won't have "big antlers" even if you have age. Both are true.

OK. We're agreeing that West TN has as good or better soil than the big-buck regions of GA?

So, then, different "regulations" could solve the problem of less timber in West TN (vs. GA)? I suspect the different regulations of GA add about as much as their timber to their older buck production compared to West TN?

Now think about this. We've been saying it's mostly about the soil. Now we've gone to saying it's more about a lack of timber?

We're at full circle.

 

[BSK]

[Now think about this. We've been saying it's mostly about the soil. Now we've gone to saying it's more about a lack of timber?

What it is is a lack of a large deer population. What were the numbers for far West TN in the thermal census? Somewhere around 13 deer per square mile? That's a VERY low deer density.

Could regulations help? Most certainly. But even with a very low buck bag limit (1) there are still far more hunters than there are bucks. Even with a 1 buck bag limit, hunters could kill every living buck out of an area with no cover.

 

[PickettSFHunter]

There are more alfisols in East TN than in ALL of Georgia, and of course West TN is dominated by Udalfs which is a suborder of Alfisols. There are no Mollisols in GA at all, and very little Alfisols. So yes TN dominates Georgia in the soil department. Georgia is mainly all Ultisols suborder Udults. If you have ever had a basic soils class you can gain alot of information just from their names.

As for crops, TN grows around 4 times as much soybean acreage as GA, about 2.5 times as much corn acreage, and about 2 times as much winter wheat. Georgia has 3 times as much cotton as TN and of the course peanuts.

 

[TheLBLman]

Now we've gone to saying it's more about a lack of timber?

What it is is a lack of a large deer population. What were the numbers for far West TN in the thermal census? Somewhere around 13 deer per square mile? That's a VERY low deer density.

Could regulations help? Most certainly. But even with a very low buck bag limit (1) there are still far more hunters than there are bucks. Even with a 1 buck bag limit, hunters could kill every living buck out of an area with no cover.

What came first, the chicken (the lack of a large population), or the egg (the regulations to create a large population)?

Although timberlands are lacking in many areas of extreme West TN, there is not necessarily a lack of great cover. Same can be said for much of Kansas, or closer to home, extreme West KY. In the presence of expansive agricultural croplands, no woods required.

In other words, regulations do matter.

Double the number of gun-hunting days in KY, triple the buck limit, and the next few years will show a significant decline in large-antlered mature bucks coming from Kentucky's Mississippi & Ohio Rivers floodplains. Likewise, put TN's regs into GA, and GA will see a significant decline, too.

But our TN regs are acceptable for much of TN, since we DO HAVE lots of woods and heavy cover, more than much of KY or GA. Just saying, regs are an important part of the equation, as are soils and buck age structure.

 

[SEC]

Now we've gone to saying it's more about a lack of timber?

What it is is a lack of a large deer population. What were the numbers for far West TN in the thermal census? Somewhere around 13 deer per square mile? That's a VERY low deer density.

Could regulations help? Most certainly. But even with a very low buck bag limit (1) there are still far more hunters than there are bucks. Even with a 1 buck bag limit, hunters could kill every living buck out of an area with no cover.

What came first, the chicken (the lack of a large population), or the egg (the regulations to create a large population)?

Although timberlands are lacking in many areas of extreme West TN, there is not necessarily a lack of great cover. Same can be said for much of Kansas, or closer to home, extreme West KY. In the presence of expansive agricultural croplands, no woods required.

In other words, regulations do matter.

Double the number of gun-hunting days in KY, triple the buck limit, and the next few years will show a significant decline in large-antlered mature bucks coming from Kentucky's Mississippi & Ohio Rivers floodplains. Likewise, put TN's regs into GA, and GA will see a significant decline, too.

But our TN regs are acceptable for much of TN, since we DO HAVE lots of woods and heavy cover, more than much of KY or GA. Just saying, regs are an important part of the equation, as are soils and buck age structure.

I could not have said it better myself.

 

[BSK]

Now we've gone to saying it's more about a lack of timber?

What it is is a lack of a large deer population. What were the numbers for far West TN in the thermal census? Somewhere around 13 deer per square mile? That's a VERY low deer density.

Could regulations help? Most certainly. But even with a very low buck bag limit (1) there are still far more hunters than there are bucks. Even with a 1 buck bag limit, hunters could kill every living buck out of an area with no cover.

What came first, the chicken (the lack of a large population), or the egg (the regulations to create a large population)?

Although timberlands are lacking in many areas of extreme West TN, there is not necessarily a lack of great cover. Same can be said for much of Kansas, or closer to home, extreme West KY. In the presence of expansive agricultural croplands, no woods required.

In other words, regulations do matter.

Double the number of gun-hunting days in KY, triple the buck limit, and the next few years will show a significant decline in large-antlered mature bucks coming from Kentucky's Mississippi & Ohio Rivers floodplains. Likewise, put TN's regs into GA, and GA will see a significant decline, too.

But our TN regs are acceptable for much of TN, since we DO HAVE lots of woods and heavy cover, more than much of KY or GA. Just saying, regs are an important part of the equation, as are soils and buck age structure.

Actually, again, go to Google Maps and you will find that the top buck producing areas of IA, IL, and GA actually do have much more timber than far west TN. Agriculture is King for growing big antlers, but woods are necessary to grow age.

I'm not saying regulations don't matter anywhere. They just don't matter in many parts of the Southeast. But I've also been clear that in heavy agricultural habitat, regulations are critical to protecting bucks from overharvest.

However, in the highland rim and other heavily wooded sections of TN, regulations (buck bag limits) don't mean a hill of beans to what is actually being harvested. Make it 2 bucks, 4 bucks or 20 bucks, the buck harvest isn't going to change in those areas. We have virtually the same total buck harvest now under a 3 buck limit as we did under the 11 buck limit.

 

[TheLBLman]

Agriculture is King for growing big antlers, but woods are necessary to grow age.

Don't see how you can say "woods are necessary to grow age."

I'd say it's more an issue of "cover" than "woods", and lots of habitat that's not woods CAN BE better cover, such as CRP.

But that said, old deer CAN BE grown without "woods", albeit such circumstances may require much different hunting regulations. This is why states with generally less woods commonly have much shorter gun seasons, sometimes "shotgun only" or excluding centerfire rifles. Wouldn't Illinois be a good example of deer hunting regulations being what they are in large part because of a lack of woods?

 

[Quailman]

I'd say it's more an issue of "cover" than "woods", and lots of habitat that's not woods CAN BE better cover, such as CRP.

There's definitely some truth to this statement Wes. We have 220,000 acres of CRP and 40,000 acres of WRP in TN, and 90% of these acres are located in West TN. We now have a WRP special project area in West TN that encompasses the entire MS River floodplain area. As you know, these types of USDA programs can create some extremely thick cover that is great for whitetails!

 

[TheLBLman]

There's definitely some truth to this statement Wes. We have 220,000 acres of CRP and 40,000 acres of WRP in TN, and 90% of these acres are located in West TN. We now have a WRP special project area in West TN that encompasses the entire MS River floodplain area. As you know, these types of USDA programs can create some extremely thick cover that is great for whitetails!

Yes, that's GREAT!
But we just don't have the good peanut-producing soils required to produce large-antlered mature bucks like are coming out of Georgia!
Besides that, they grow a lot more cotton in Georgia, and we'll just never be able to compete with that much cotton. We just don't have the soil for it here.

I really think a lot of people are going to be absolutely shocked at what comes out of West TN during the next decade, without or without the woods.

 

[Quailman]

I really think a lot of people are going to be absolutely shocked at what comes out of West TN during the next decade, without or without the woods.

I agree! There is a great deal of conservation effort now focused on the Mississippi River Basin because of past environmental impacts. A LOT of land now being protected and established to permanent cover.

 

[BSK]

Agriculture is King for growing big antlers, but woods are necessary to grow age.

Don't see how you can say "woods are necessary to grow age."

I'd say it's more an issue of "cover" than "woods", and lots of habitat that's not woods CAN BE better cover, such as CRP.

Absolutely true Wes. I just used "woods" generically, because for so many locations, standing timber truly is the only cover. However, MUCH better types of cover exist.

Wouldn't Illinois be a good example of deer hunting regulations being what they are in large part because of a lack of woods?

Yup. Midwestern states have such limited firearms hunting and low buck bag limits because they have to to prevent buck overharvest. Most Southeastern States can get away with much longer firearms seasons and more liberal bag limits because of more limited visibility (due to more woods AND more changes in terrain).

 

[TheLBLman]

Wouldn't Illinois be a good example of deer hunting regulations being what they are in large part because of a lack of woods?

Yup. Midwestern states have such limited firearms hunting and low buck bag limits because they have to to prevent buck overharvest. Most Southeastern States can get away with much longer firearms seasons and more liberal bag limits because of more limited visibility (due to more woods AND more changes in terrain).

Which is the politically correct way of saying it's relatively easier to kill a particular buck in Illinois than Tennessee.