fired rocks

[JIMMYJAMES]

another questions ,,, did the indians , build fires for the makeing of arrowheads ,, like heating quartz to change the colors, from white , to red , to black ,, it seems i find alot of burnt quartz,, or places they had fires ,,and one place i found couple hundred pieces of black heavy quartz, as if it could have exploded , some pieces are dime size , most are buckshot size , but was shiney and heavy..

the places i look are undistured land that has been under water for 60 years ,and water with no current. so what you find on the land is pretty much, where they left it.. there is no water there for now , but there will be soon ,

 

[Huntaholic]

There are lots of old wives tales about how they made their heads, but I seriously doubt if fire was used. As a kid, I used to hear tales that they used water on heated flint to make the flakes, etc..... IMHO, it aint true! Ive seen a REAL flint knapper in action and all he used was what they would have had handy, hammerstones, elk antler, and deer antlers. For those who might doubt this method, I watched him make a cumberland, flutes and all in about 20 minutes!

 

[Physiksgeek]

I don't know what you mean by "build fires to make arrowheads" but historic man would certainly "heat treat" flint before working it. Not sure about prehistoric man. It will change the color of the flint for sure....kinda like bringing the grain out in wood using a stain and my understanding is that it made it a little easier to work. Was it necessary....probably not. But what else did you have to do after the sun went down?....lol

 

[JIMMYJAMES]

thanks for the input,here is what i see if i try to imagine what this place would look like ,when the injuns lived here . i see a camp on a big flat of a sloping hill side ,creek at bottom of hill .in and around camp i see big t v size blocks of white quartz,being broke down to workible piecesin.In places piles of shards,and broken chips would gather. but you can see shards everywhere on the ground, fire pits in several areas of this camp . some places they would try to make big stuff ,like a big speer, a 4 side long and pointed dagger, most of them would have been completed 7 or 8 inch long ,and a stub to attach it to a shaft , some places they would make just bird points , and just be hundreds of small broken bird points , other places , they would try to make arrowheads , and there will be shardsd of arrowhead points and chips ,, it just is amazing to me how these people had to live in such a primitive world ,, where everything we buy for the way we live ,, theyhad to make out of what was on the ground in frount of them ,,,,, i could be all wrong about there camp , but i live in the place , and i look at it all the time .. lot of questions out there ,,,,

 

[OldHunter]

I can't imagine living in a place like that. I wouldn't get anything done besides looking for rocks.

As far as heat treating rocks that is a myth. If you don't believe me throw some Chert (flint) in a fire and back up, they explode and send chips flying. You can heat treat steel but not rock.

 

[Physiksgeek]

Looks like I am out numbered on whether flint was "heat treated" prior to being worked by ancient man.......but there is strength in numbers...lol! SOoooo.....my hope is that my personal testimony to a number greater than three, albeit an unknown number of heat treated points I have personally found, fifteen years worth of Central States Archeological Journals as well as the number of links below speaking of heat treated points....will persuade those that unequivocally say it did not take place...to being open to the evidence and the possibility that in fact it did. A quick Google search using 'heat treated Indian artifacts' keywords revealed the following. Some are from journals, some are auctions and some are articles.

http://www.primitiveways.com/knapping3.html

http://www.texasarrowheads.com/featured ... -preforms/

http://www.webdyer.com/artifacts_fossils/points07.htm - Picture F05 is heat treated coral and Picture F016 is thought to be heat treated

https://www.ancientindianartifacts.com/ ... age=9&js=n

http://csasi.org/2004_october_journal/2 ... ournal.htm - The points second from the bottom made from Horse Creek Chert are heat treated.

I do not think that any one disputes the fact that a piece of flint left in a fire will explode.....but I would ask why would someone do that? It would destroy a perfectly good piece of flint and maybe even put an eye out. I know for a fact that it will burn a hole in a tent....lol!

Now by no means do I take everything written in a book or on the internet as an indisputable fact....but it does become harder for me to refute 'X' when the the preponderance of evidence runs contrary to it. So, because of that and the fact that an argument that begins in the "general" and tries to end in the "specific" is by its very nature flawed, I would be interested in some specific instances where it is felt this "heat treating" of flint by ancient man did not happen......I Googled it and could not find any myself???

 

[JIMMYJAMES]

i didnt mean to stir the pot , but i think at times they put quartz in fires , or there fire ring rocks just exploded ,, but the one place i found these black crystals was very nerving , i look all over this place all the time ,and have found ,all kinds of preistoric tools , and eveidence of there ability to survive , and i have buckets of shards and hand size tools or weapons , most of them white quartz, i have covered alot of areas ,and found these rocks only once. there heavier than regular quartz ,and shiney black .. the biggest pieces were about quarter size,and a bunce of small ones ,pea size in a area about 20 yards circle ..

 

[Chris Tripp]

Jimmy it sounds to me that the black pieces you have is obsidian that was traded for other items.