Final Spring Kill Numbers

[Southern Sportsman]

I cannot get the search to work when I try to go back to 2017, so if anyone has the total numbers from last year, please post them.

 

[Southern Sportsman]

Also, the average spur length in TN has to be best in the country at 1.7"

 

[Shooter77]

Here is the past 5 years for the state. right column is the difference from the previous year.


2014 - 32,635
2015 - 31,502 -1,133
2016 - 32,306 804
2017 - 34,651 2,345
2018 - 28,287 -6,364


Here is the updated for Upper E TN area. Only Hawkins really seen a drop in KILL numbers....

 

[Southern Sportsman]

I think we have been over 30,000 every year for the last 15 or 16 years. We have more people hunting turkeys now than we ever have, and the methods available for killing turkeyes are more effective now than ever. Yet we just had a decline of over 18% from last year, to our lowest kill total in nearly two decades.

Probably just the weather.

From megalomaniac's pre-season predictions thread:

#1 this will be the lowest kill since turkey restoration completed

#2 TWRA will institute regulation changes to try to mitigate the population decline.

I hope I eat crow on #1, but I pray that #2- the regulation changes will be something meaningful, not just lowering limit or eliminating bearded hen killing. TN's turkeys NEED the season pushed back 2 weeks with the same ending date, and jakes need to be off limits. OFC, I'd love to see all hen killing eliminated, spring or fall, but we really need to let the hens initiate a fertile nest before we take out the LB's, especially in those areas with marginal populations.

Nailed the first one. God I hope you're right about the second one.

 

[AT Hiker]

Also, the average spur length in TN has to be best in the country at 1.7"

I'd say we need to teach "reading a ruler 101" in hunter safety course[emoji14]


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[Setterman]

Sad to see so many of the states I hunt in a noticeable decline, yet very few hunters are willing to sacrifice and the game agencies are burying their head in the sand. I've grown accustomed to the game agencies and the old breed of turkey hunters would do what's right, but this new generation could care less.

 

[Shooter77]

Sad to see so many of the states I hunt in a noticeable decline, yet very few hunters are willing to sacrifice and the game agencies are burying their head in the sand. I've grown accustomed to the game agencies and the old breed of turkey hunters would do what's right, but this new generation could care less.

So your not just blaming TWRA for turkey decline? it's also happening in other states too. I've heard so many praise KY and now MO, but both experienced the same decline in kill numbers. Who do you think we should model our state after?

I'm up for any sacrifice that's needed to take care of the problem. what should we do.

 

[Southern Sportsman]

Sad to see so many of the states I hunt in a noticeable decline, yet very few hunters are willing to sacrifice and the game agencies are burying their head in the sand. I've grown accustomed to the game agencies and the old breed of turkey hunters would do what's right, but this new generation could care less.

So your not just blaming TWRA for turkey decline? it's also happening in other states too. I've heard so many praise KY and now MO, but both experienced the same decline in kill numbers. Who do you think we should model our state after?

I think Missouri has been the gold standard for Turkey managment for decades. They have seen a recent drop in population, but their decline seems to be based on major flooding a critical nesting times over the last two years. And they actually recognize and acknowledge it. The TWRA and F&WC can't be blamed for everything that causes a population decline. Populations are declining in a lot of states and no one knows for sure what is causing it. But refusing to acknowledge that a problem exists and continuing to do NOTHING should be criminal. Continuing a 6 week season with a 4 bird limit in the face of a major population drop would be mismanagment of the highest order.

 

[ADR]

Also, the average spur length in TN has to be best in the country at 1.7"

I'd say we need to teach "reading a ruler 101" in hunter safety course[emoji14]


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I wonder if many people were adding the two together to report?

I only report the longer of the two but have never read the actual recommendation.

 

[Andy S.]

Also, the average spur length in TN has to be best in the country at 1.7"

Best part is spur size is inversely proportional to age. Jakes average 16" spurs and old birds average 1.7". :rotf:

 

[knightrider]

235 hens state wide, well there goes the hatch :stir: op:

 

[Southern Sportsman]

Also, the average spur length in TN has to be best in the country at 1.7"

I'd say we need to teach "reading a ruler 101" in hunter safety course[emoji14]

I wonder if many people were adding the two together to report?

I only report the longer of the two but have never read the actual recommendation.

I'm sure that is happening enought to drive the average up. I actually asked that question in the TWRA Questions forum last year, but no one knew for sure. The harvest app does not say exactly what to do. I also input the length of the longest spur. When someone asks "how long were his spurs" I never say "Two inches. Looked like a two year old."

 

[Southern Sportsman]

235 hens state wide, well there goes the hatch :stir: op:

I'll bite.

I suspect the flock will survive. But those were just the bearded hens killed in the spring. There were another 442 hens killed last fall. Those 677 hens will now have a combined polt production of 0. Had they survived, they would have probably yeilded 1000-1500 polts. It may not eradicate the flock, but I'm anxious to hear your explination for how that helps a declining population?

 

[AT Hiker]

Also, the average spur length in TN has to be best in the country at 1.7"

Best part is spur size is inversely proportional to age. Jakes average 16" spurs and old birds average 1.7". :rotf:

It's apparent your not privy on Turkey biology. Let me freshen it up or you; a male is hatched with 1.5 foot long spurs, every day after that the beard grows longer via transfer of energy from its spurs. Thermo turkey dynamics 101.


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[knightrider]

235 hens state wide, well there goes the hatch :stir: op:

I'll bite.

I suspect the flock will survive. But those were just the bearded hens killed in the spring. There were another 442 hens killed last fall. Those 677 hens will now have a combined polt production of 0. Had they survived, they would have probably yeilded 1000-1500 polts. It may not eradicate the flock, but I'm anxious to hear your explination for how that helps a declining population?

Didn't say it would help but it certainly isn't the reason for your decline, the 5-10 hen per year per county that get killed means absolutely nothing to the overall problem. It just doesn't work that way

 

[woodsman04]

I think the best thing that they could do is delay season start 10-14 days, make hens illegal, "southern sportsmen is correct, dead hens don't raise poults" and make the entire state into different zones.

I cannot get on board with them seriously trying to help as long as a hen turkey is legal to kill.

Also wish they would do poult surveys in August September, to see how many poults actually made it to be bigger turkeys.

But o well. Maybe the population where I hunt will rebound. I do believe that 5 out of my 6 areas all across Lincoln, Giles, and Lawrence were better since 2010. Still these counties in the broad scheme are struggling from what they once were.


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[woodsman04]

235 hens state wide, well there goes the hatch :stir: op:

I'll bite.

I suspect the flock will survive. But those were just the bearded hens killed in the spring. There were another 442 hens killed last fall. Those 677 hens will now have a combined polt production of 0. Had they survived, they would have probably yeilded 1000-1500 polts. It may not eradicate the flock, but I'm anxious to hear your explination for how that helps a declining population?

Didn't say it would help but it certainly isn't the reason for your decline, the 5-10 hen per year per county that get killed means absolutely nothing to the overall problem. It just doesn't work that way

It isn't the reason, but what also isn't the reason is the small percentage of people that kill 3 instead of 2, or 2 instead of 1, or 4 instead of 3.
Can go down the road of all the hens that get killed by hay mowers. All the hens that get killed by coyotes. Everybody always says that's just not enough to matter. It is always enough to matter.

It all eventually adds up. And making hen killing illegal would be one of the first steps.


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[TDW05]

235 hens state wide, well there goes the hatch :stir: op:

I'll bite.

I suspect the flock will survive. But those were just the bearded hens killed in the spring. There were another 442 hens killed last fall. Those 677 hens will now have a combined polt production of 0. Had they survived, they would have probably yeilded 1000-1500 polts. It may not eradicate the flock, but I'm anxious to hear your explination for how that helps a declining population?

Didn't say it would help but it certainly isn't the reason for your decline, the 5-10 hen per year per county that get killed means absolutely nothing to the overall problem. It just doesn't work that way

Wrong, that is one of the biggest problems with the decline! That's 10 less hens that would have added to the population now they are definitely not adding to the population. Sure 10 don't sound like much but it equals a far higher number then just the individual hen that was killed!

 

[knightrider]

It's laughable that people think 600 hens across an entire state the size of tn is the problem

 

[megalomaniac]

Honestly, the season ended up much better than I thought it would... The number in my mind when I made my original prediction was 26,000 statewide kill. Hunters ARE more effective at removing the standing population, or the birds are getting dumber, or there were more man hours afield.

 

[megalomaniac]

It's laughable that people think 600 hens across an entire state the size of tn is the problem

Agreed, 600 hens killed by hunters is nothing. But the 30,000 killed statewide by coyotes becomes pretty significant. But I think making hens protected sends a very important message to the general hunting population- "we HAVE a problem", and "hunters need to be active conservationists to ensure we are part of the solution, and NOT part of the problem"

 

[fairchaser]

Also, the average spur length in TN has to be best in the country at 1.7"

Best part is spur size is inversely proportional to age. Jakes average 16" spurs and old birds average 1.7". :rotf:

I'm fairly certain the error in the spur length can be tied to the way the data must be input in the TWRA app. There are two fields that require an entry. The first field is generally 0 and the second field is in 1/16's. I think it very confusing to say the least and think it's encouraging errors. JMO

 

[Setterman]

Sad to see so many of the states I hunt in a noticeable decline, yet very few hunters are willing to sacrifice and the game agencies are burying their head in the sand. I've grown accustomed to the game agencies and the old breed of turkey hunters would do what's right, but this new generation could care less.

So your not just blaming TWRA for turkey decline? it's also happening in other states too. I've heard so many praise KY and now MO, but both experienced the same decline in kill numbers. Who do you think we should model our state after?

I'm up for any sacrifice that's needed to take care of the problem. what should we do.

I've stated for years it's not just TN. Alabama has been in a steady decline, and it started for them once decoys became legal. Georgia faltered after legalizing baiting for deer. Ky saw a big drop this year.

I think all states in other words are boobing this up. It's not just one thing that's occurring imo. It's a combination of lower poult production and turkey hunters being far more effective killers.

What's hidden is that with the highly effective killing tools now it masks how bad it really is. That's the scariest part.

With decoys, reaping, blinds, tss, etc we as hunters are much deadlier than we were 10 years ago. However, none of the states have adjusted for our effectiveness. There's so many birds being taken that in years gone by would've survived. Therefore we are leaving less breeders and less seed stock.

There's no question something bad is happening, yet TWRA KYDNR GADNR etc aren't changing jack poop, and just keeping the status quo.

You want change? Sacrifice is in order. Start with corn for deer, trail cams etc. Next move the season back 2 weeks and drop the limit to 2, no jakes, no hens ever, no decoys, and open the slaughter on nest raiders. Do something rather than just shrug your shoulders or deny there's an issue.

 

[megalomaniac]

...What's hidden is that with the highly effective killing tools now it masks how bad it really is. That's the scariest part. ...

Now THAT's a 'BOOM, Mike drop" if I've ever seen one. Guys, if you don't all take notice of this excerpt, we're toast as a collective turkey hunter brotherhood. And that may be the scariest part!

 

[Roost 1]

Sad to see so many of the states I hunt in a noticeable decline, yet very few hunters are willing to sacrifice and the game agencies are burying their head in the sand. I've grown accustomed to the game agencies and the old breed of turkey hunters would do what's right, but this new generation could care less.

So your not just blaming TWRA for turkey decline? it's also happening in other states too. I've heard so many praise KY and now MO, but both experienced the same decline in kill numbers. Who do you think we should model our state after?

I'm up for any sacrifice that's needed to take care of the problem. what should we do.

I've stated for years it's not just TN. Alabama has been in a steady decline, and it started for them once decoys became legal. Georgia faltered after legalizing baiting for deer. Ky saw a big drop this year.

I think all states in other words are boobing this up. It's not just one thing that's occurring imo. It's a combination of lower poult production and turkey hunters being far more effective killers.

What's hidden is that with the highly effective killing tools now it masks how bad it really is. That's the scariest part.

With decoys, reaping, blinds, tss, etc we as hunters are much deadlier than we were 10 years ago. However, none of the states have adjusted for our effectiveness. There's so many birds being taken that in years gone by would've survived. Therefore we are leaving less breeders and less seed stock.

There's no question something bad is happening, yet TWRA KYDNR GADNR etc aren't changing jack poop, and just keeping the status quo.

You want change? Sacrifice is in order. Start with corn for deer, trail cams etc. Next move the season back 2 weeks and drop the limit to 2, no jakes, no hens ever, no decoys, and open the slaughter on nest raiders. Do something rather than just shrug your shoulders or deny there's an issue.

Great post... thank you.
If you wanna see laughable check out the TN turkey hunters Facebook page and read what those guys are saying. Crazy!!

 

[Southern Sportsman]

It's laughable that people think 600 hens across an entire state the size of tn is the problem

I haven't seen anyone say that killing 600 hens is "the" problem. But it damn sure isn't helping the problem. Killing hens out of a declining population is counter-productive. That can't be disputed. So why allow it?

I am also certain there are several hundred more hens killed and lost every year by bow hunters who shoot hens just because they are legal during archery season. Protecting hens would save more than just the 600-700 reported.

 

[poorhunter]

Sad to see so many of the states I hunt in a noticeable decline, yet very few hunters are willing to sacrifice and the game agencies are burying their head in the sand. I've grown accustomed to the game agencies and the old breed of turkey hunters would do what's right, but this new generation could care less.

So your not just blaming TWRA for turkey decline? it's also happening in other states too. I've heard so many praise KY and now MO, but both experienced the same decline in kill numbers. Who do you think we should model our state after?

I'm up for any sacrifice that's needed to take care of the problem. what should we do.

I've stated for years it's not just TN. Alabama has been in a steady decline, and it started for them once decoys became legal. Georgia faltered after legalizing baiting for deer. Ky saw a big drop this year.

I think all states in other words are boobing this up. It's not just one thing that's occurring imo. It's a combination of lower poult production and turkey hunters being far more effective killers.

What's hidden is that with the highly effective killing tools now it masks how bad it really is. That's the scariest part.

With decoys, reaping, blinds, tss, etc we as hunters are much deadlier than we were 10 years ago. However, none of the states have adjusted for our effectiveness. There's so many birds being taken that in years gone by would've survived. Therefore we are leaving less breeders and less seed stock.

There's no question something bad is happening, yet TWRA KYDNR GADNR etc aren't changing jack poop, and just keeping the status quo.

You want change? Sacrifice is in order. Start with corn for deer, trail cams etc. Next move the season back 2 weeks and drop the limit to 2, no jakes, no hens ever, no decoys, and open the slaughter on nest raiders. Do something rather than just shrug your shoulders or deny there's an issue.

Imagine what the harvest would have been IF the weather was good on the weekends. Probably would have been 30000 and everyone would have said "see, no problems in Tennessee with turkeys". TWRA would have continued to say kill all you want, but now there's at least a chance they'll do something.

I know there are still lots of areas that have great numbers, some better than ever, but there are also lots of places that used to be very productive that aren't anymore.

 

[scn]

Here is the TWRA link to all of the Commissioners: https://www.tn.gov/content/tn/twra/tenn ... .html#meet

The TFWC meeting where they will vote on the hunting season for the next two years is this Thursday afternoon. If you can't go to voice your opinion on the turkey season, each of their email addresses is there when you click on each name. I can about assure you that a flurry of email activity requesting a more restricted season than recommended by TWRA will be read, and just might carry some weight. By the same token, doing nothing beyond voicing concerns on social media like TNDeer will do nothing to move towards some changes. Your choice.

I've been told that comments that are relatively short, POLITE, and to the point usually are the best received.

 

[th88]

Start with corn for deer

Is a bigger issue for the turkey than most realize...

 

[poorhunter]

Here is the TWRA link to all of the Commissioners: https://www.tn.gov/content/tn/twra/tenn ... .html#meet

The TFWC meeting where they will vote on the hunting season for the next two years is this Thursday afternoon with the vote on Friday morning. If you can't go to voice your opinion on the turkey season, each of their email addresses is there when you click on each name. I can about assure you that a flurry of email activity requesting a more restricted season than recommended by TWRA will be read, and just might carry some weight. By the same token, doing nothing beyond voicing concerns on social media like TNDeer will do nothing to move towards some changes. Your choice.

I've been told that comments that are relatively short, POLITE, and to the point usually are the best received.

Sent my email, thank you for the info!