Dr. Michael Chamberlain - MeatEater Podcast

[Southern Sportsman]

Dr. Michael Chamberlain - Professor of Wildlife Ecology and Management at UGA - was the guest on this week's episode of the MeatEater podcast. He specializes in turkeys. It's a great listen. Especially horned owls snatching gobblers out of trees, the correlation between gobbling and pressure, and research about social hierarchies and breeding.

You can start at the 23 minute mark for the substantive discussions. 1:18 mark for the social hierarchy stuff.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/t ... 0469953687

 

[REN]

man that horned owl part is fascinating! I knew it happened but never imagined it was that frequent and to that level.

 

[Andy S.]

Dr. Chamberlain is legit when it comes to pure eastern turkey research. I follow him on SM and read his Turkey Tuesday updates. He shares some enlightening data sets, albeit many are preliminary in nature.

 

[Displaced_Vol]

I've missed (skipped) the last couple meat eater podcasts, will be sure to catch this one. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[Southern Sportsman]

man that horned owl part is fascinating! I knew it happened but never imagined it was that frequent and to that level.

Yeah, it's unbelievable. For those who haven't listened, during his PhD research, he was working in a research area where he had GPS collars on: 4 raccoons, 1 grey fox, 1 skunk, and 2 turkeys. One breeding pair of horned owls killed ALL of them. God knows what all they killed without collars.

 

[Boll Weevil]

I watched a fascinating NatGeo special on owls...for their size they're like the ultimate predator. Completely silent in flight, see/hunt at night, parabolic face directs sound and motion, doggone head can turn 270 degrees and all kinds of crazy angles! in other words just be glad they don't hunt humans...we wouldn't have a chance.

 

[REN]

7% of nest produce polts that live. Now take into account the % of the 7% is a tom that survives after hatch. Man thats crazy.

 

[REN]

the aging part they discussed people REALLY need to listen to.

 

[REN]

Man seriously that was one of the best podcasts Ive listen to in a while. The breeding selection and season start dates etc was also very cool to listen to. What happens when you remove the dominate birds to early and how they restructure. Man so cool to listen to.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

Man seriously that was one of the best podcasts Ive listen to in a while. The breeding selection and season start dates etc was also very cool to listen to. What happens when you remove the dominate birds to early and how they restructure. Man so cool to listen to.

This is what I suggested TWRA look at when they asked for feedback to the "5 year plan". Can't wait to listen to this podcast

 

[Boll Weevil]

Really, really good listen.

The research on removing the dominant tom and the impact to breeding and reshuffling of the entire hierarchy deck is pretty darn compelling. Season start date and the use of plastic strutters + fans has gotta be having a major impact. Over time it just seems nonsensical to believe a given local population wouldn't shrink.

 

[TheLBLman]

Totally agree with all above.

Also, I've been thinking and saying for years
that I believe raptors (owls, hawks, and yes, even eagles) are decimating turkey populations more than the coyotes.

But even coyotes have adapted to specifically hunt more during daylight to target turkeys.

 

[dgolden]

Tons of good info in the podcast! I sent it to a few buddies that are just getting started in turkey hunting. Also, it has me more motivated to trap predators.

 

[Southern Sportsman]

Season start date and the use of plastic strutters + fans has gotta be having a major impact. Over time it just seems nonsensical to believe a given local population wouldn't shrink.

Strutter decoys came on the scene around 2005-2006 and have become more and more commonplace ever since. Game agencies started noticing a precipitous decline in poult success around 2008-2009. Far more pronounced in SE states where seasons start early.

Strutter decoys disproportionately target dominate males defending their hens. Especially early in the season. 4-5 weeks before peak nesting in the SE. Killing the dominant gobbler disrupts the breeding cycle of hens that had already chosen that gobbler through sexual selection - way more than anybody used to understand. I don't want to turn this into a decoy bashing forum, and decoys definitely are not the only factor. But ignoring them as A factor is just denial.

 

[woodsman04]

Been reading and listening to that dude a long time. Him and Lovett Williams are/was the best turkey biologist out there.

Maybe someone in charge will take heed and make some changes to the opening dates/effective ultra realistic decoys


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Andy S.]

^^^^ Spot on SS! As I've always said, the BEST turkey hunters/killers rarely stand a chance early season against a dominant gobbler and his harem of hens. Anyone that battled with them pre-decoy days knows this. Throw in a strutter, and voila, the tables are turned and it's not even a challenge. Personally, I think it's as bad or worse for turkey conservation as shooting hens. Remember, at the end of the day/season, you, me and everyone else should want maximum number of hens bred to increase the odds of maximum poults/hen the following August.

 

[PickettSFHunter]

Extremely interesting. Makes me want to take some SSS action on owls, hawks. Also makes me wonder if I should even be hunting TN the first two weeks of April.

 

[Boll Weevil]

But ignoring them as A factor is just denial.

When a 25 year veteran wild turkey biologist provides research-backed findings on flock hierarchy and the impact of removing a dominant bird early in the season...I'm listening for sure. Why wildlife management agencies aren't listening to this man is beyond comprehension. And I don't wanna hear any complainin' down the road from folks that continue to use strutter dekes and fans to simplify killing dominant birds even after hearing the research community weigh in.

Ignoring this factor (major factor after listening to the podcast) is denial at best. At worst, within the context of resource conservation and sustainability, it's downright negligent.

 

[AT Hiker]

Excellent podcast for sure!

IMO, it should be mandatory to listen to. A lot of truths that would shatter much of popular opinion. I would share it on the Tn Turkey facebook page but Ted Nugent is the biological authority there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[megalomaniac]

^^^^ Spot on SS! As I've always said, the BEST turkey hunters/killers rarely stand a chance early season against a dominant gobbler and his harem of hens. Anyone that battled with them pre-decoy days knows this. Throw in a strutter, and voila, the tables are turned and it's not even a challenge. Personally, I think it's as bad or worse for turkey conservation as shooting hens. Remember, at the end of the day/season, you, me and everyone else should want maximum number of hens bred to increase the odds of maximum poults/hen the following August.

I'm not downplaying the devastating effects of fanning.... it IS bad...

But I really believe most of the early season kills are over or around bait.

Pop up blind over a bait pile kills just as many early season dominant Tom's as strutter decoys. Plus the bait then kills the satellites until the 4 bird limit is hit



Sent from my SM-G970U1 using Tapatalk

 

[woodsman04]

Baiting is overrated in my experience. Turkeys eat everything. The hens go to wherever they feel like they need to nest, not where the corn or grain is.

I'm not going to do either one, but I bet if I started a feeder in January and kept them coming to it until season, I could kill maybe one or two opening weekend, and that's maybe because they may not want to come to the corn.
You give me a gobbler decoy or what not, I could perhaps kill every gobbler I saw the first ten days of the season.


I'm happy that someone with some good knowledge like Dr. Chamberlain has spoke about this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[woodsman04]

^^^^ Spot on SS! As I've always said, the BEST turkey hunters/killers rarely stand a chance early season against a dominant gobbler and his harem of hens. Anyone that battled with them pre-decoy days knows this. Throw in a strutter, and voila, the tables are turned and it's not even a challenge. Personally, I think it's as bad or worse for turkey conservation as shooting hens. Remember, at the end of the day/season, you, me and everyone else should want maximum number of hens bred to increase the odds of maximum poults/hen the following August.

Usually from about April the 20-30 is my favorite time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[muddyboots]

Personally I love hunting early season. I personally do not use decoys. Only time I do is sometimes with my daughter. It does help her. Now sometimes turkey comes to them. Sometimes they avoid them like the plague. I think the decline is predators and high limit. Jmo. We used to open season last Saturday in March and limit was 2. We had 10 times the birds we do know. Hunting was unreal in those days. I feel sorry for you guys that never experienced that. Jmo

 

[Spurhunter]

Why wildlife management agencies aren't listening to this man is beyond comprehension.

I have a few theories:
A) The easier it is to kill turkeys, the more people will turkey hunt, which equates to more license sales.
B) They don't want to listen to all the crying from the guys that spent $100 on a strutter decoy and can't use it now.
C) Too much money involved. Maybe they don't want to cut into the earnings of the decoy companies?

 

[Boll Weevil]

But I really believe most of the early season kills are over or around bait. Pop up blind over a bait pile kills just as many early season dominant Tom's as strutter decoys

Agree mega. The difference I see is strutters are currently totally perfectly legal..bait ain't. Strutters and fans oughta be outright outlawed. Will the law breakers keep lawbreaking? Yes. Some of the same folks that don't check birds in and stop at 4 in TN.

Will folks with a fan or plastic strutter start looking over their shoulder while toting one through the woods...hopefully yes. Since the late 80s I ain't never seen a man walkin thru the turkey woods with a pocketful of cracked corn. It wasn't altogether uncommon back then and nobody said nothing but needs to be the same kind of stamp down for plastic strutters and fans now.

If this was the law, heck, try it at your own peril. Folks start calling it in and tickets get wrote...my guess is it'll decline. A $100 avian x strutter glitter sprayed deke vs a $500 ticket? No brainer (maybe). $400 buys a whole buncha turkey meats at the piggley wiggley. And just as sporting.

 

[REN]

We've gotten a bit off track but state agencies don't care about company agendas or profits, they do care about license sales and outlawing them won't happen due to the decline in license sales it will cause. Bama outlawed them for a long time but look at them now

 

[Spurhunter]

But I really believe most of the early season kills are over or around bait. Pop up blind over a bait pile kills just as many early season dominant Tom's as strutter decoys

Agree mega.

Maybe I'm naive, or maybe it's my little corner of the world, but I don't see baiting being a big problem with the turkey hunters I interact with in Tennessee. Mississippi is a different story. Baiting seems to be more accepted/ingrained in MS.

 

[MickThompson]

Why wildlife management agencies aren't listening to this man is beyond comprehension.

I have a few theories:
A) The easier it is to kill turkeys, the more people will turkey hunt, which equates to more license sales.
B) They don't want to listen to all the crying from the guys that spent $100 on a strutter decoy and can't use it now.
C) Too much money involved. Maybe they don't want to cut into the earnings of the decoy companies?

D) Agencies have little data on turkey populations besides annual harvest. Turkeys move around a lot and are hard to count. Data drives management and technology advances may well be hiding the decline but there's no easy or affordable way to quantify it.

 

[Spurhunter]

D) Agencies have little data on turkey populations besides annual harvest. Turkeys move around a lot and are hard to count. Data drives management and technology advances may well be hiding the decline but there's no easy or affordable way to quantify it.

We were specifically discussing full strut decoys and fanning and their effects on dominant birds in early season. Not turkey management in general.

As far as management in general, most turkey hunters agree that simple things could be done. We have units for deer because the state is so diverse in habitat, yet the turkey limits in counties with excessive flooding or dramatic declines in population are the same as Maury County and others with booming populations. It's kind of hard to defend that.

 

[drake799]

I would love to see them get rid of reaping. It's made it where even bad hunters are now killing birds Some People aren't even taking calls or wearing camo hunting lol. They just walk behind a decoy all day. And of course if you watch any hunting shows some of the more popular ones seemingly do it all the time