Doe cycle

[Jack Reed]

When a doe or does come into heat,will they stay ready to breed until they get bred or will they have a second cycle. If so how long between cycles? That's what they call the second rut.Right?
Will somebody please teach me

 

[mike243]

1 month between cycles probably in for a little over a week,BSK can answer that? a lot more accurately

 

[TNCharlie]

I'm not an authority on this so you will probably get better answers, but this is how I understand it.

If a doe does not get bred during the peak rut, she will cycle again in 28 days. (Sound familiar?) This obviously will set the bucks into action or what appears to us as a second rut.

I have read that any does left unbred after the second (but smaller) flurry of activity will (or may) have yet another (or more) cycles, which explains why we see the late fawns that are still small and carrying spots in the fall.

Okay experts (BSK?), correct any mistakes in this and add more/better info.

 

[Jack Reed]

I'm not an authority on this so you will probably get better answers, but this is how I understand it.

If a doe does not get bred during the peak rut, she will cycle again in 28 days. (Sound familiar?) This obviously will set the bucks into action or what appears to us as a second rut.

I have read that any does left unbred after the second (but smaller) flurry of activity will (or may) have yet another (or more) cycles, which explains why we see the late fawns that are still small and carrying spots in the fall.

Okay experts (BSK?), correct any mistakes in this and add more/better info.

Thank you.

 

[MUP]

What TNCharlie said. 28 days is the measurement of time I use as well to try and pinpoint the 2nd cycle of does in my area.

 

[backyardtndeer]

When a doe or does come into heat,will they stay ready to breed until they get bred

No, their cycle lasts about 36 hours.

or will they have a second cycle. If so how long between cycles

Yes, they will come in again if not successful the first time around, usually about 28 days later. If she is not bred then, she will come in again about 28 days later. You will also have doe fawns that get big enough to get their first cycle coming in in the midst of mature does that might have missed getting bred.

 

[GRIT]

 

[DayDay]

Interesting video.

I wish they had put the information in print so I could have taken a minute or so to read it instead of 12 minutes to watch it.

 

[Ski]

No, their cycle lasts about 36 hours.

Yes, they will come in again if not successful the first time around, usually about 28 days later. If she is not bred then, she will come in again about 28 days later. You will also have doe fawns that get big enough to get their first cycle coming in in the midst of mature does that might have missed getting bred.

That's it right there exactly. She'll cycle every month until she's bred. Fawns first cycle when they hit about 90lbs. Here in TN where we have a fair amount of later born fawns, plus a pretty high density of does, it seems rut lasts sporadically all the way into spring. I still had spotted fawns on cam in November. It'll be February or March before they are big enough to cycle, and I bet they still get bred....if they're does.

 

[mike243]

Lmao we have a lot of doe that never hit 90lbs , it's age specific not weight I/m pretty sure, however many months it takes for the internal stuff to mature

 

[LenS]

I'll add a question......will does who are bred late initially always breed late? For example, if a young doe reaches 90 pounds and is bred in January, will she cycle late next year or will she line up to the rest of her herd?

 

[Ski]

Lmao we have a lot of doe that never hit 90lbs , it's age specific not weight I/m pretty sure, however many months it takes for the internal stuff to mature

You're correct. It's not 90lbs. Below is a screenshot from The National Deer Association. It is weight, not age that dictate sexual maturity. Here's the link to the article: https://deerassociation.com/doe-fawns-breed-good-sign/

 

[Ski]

I'll add a question......will does who are bred late initially always breed late? For example, if a young doe reaches 90 pounds and is bred in January, will she cycle late next year or will she line up to the rest of her herd?

I believe they fall in line with the others, a lot like all the women in your house sync up.

 

[backyardtndeer]

You're correct. It's not 90lbs. Below is a screenshot from The National Deer Association. It is weight, not age that dictate sexual maturity. Here's the link to the article: https://deerassociation.com/doe-fawns-breed-good-sign/

View attachment 160043

I think I read years ago that a doe fawn at 60-65 lbs is capable of coming into estrous. May have been a Leonard Lee Rue book or could gave been somewhere else. Typically a fawn with adequate nutrition should hit that weight around 6 months of age or so. So late May to June born fawns coming in during the month of December and into January is probably likely.

 

[BSK]

Everyone else beat me to it. Estrus in a doe lasts 36-48 hours. If she does not conceive during that timeframe, she will cycle back into estrus in 28 days. She will continue to do this for 4 or 5 cycles, if she is healthy enough. I emphasized conception above because a doe can get bred and not conceive.

Some does are barren (cannot conceive for a number of reasons, just as some human women can never conceive). Research on the percent of does that are barren varies. I've seen stats as low as 0.5% and as high as nearly 10%. This is important, as some does that are barren still go into estrus. Because they cannot conceive, they will keep cycling back into estrus every 28 days. This is one of the causes of hunters seeing chasing in March - a barren doe coming back into estrus on her 4th or 5th cycle. In addition to barren does, as others have mentioned, in a health deer population, a given percentage of female fawns will reach the necessary body weight to enter estrus, and they usually do so in January or February. In TN, I've seen upwards of 25% of female fawns able to reach estrus their first year (as a fawn). In the far north, I've seen 80-90% of female fawns achieve estrus as a fawn.

 

[megalomaniac]

Not certain about deer, but probably very similar to humans...

From the actual time of ovulation, the egg is only viable for 12 hours, and successful fertilization declines rapidly if sperm are not present 6h after ovulation. That being said, sperm can remain viable and capable of fertilization for up to 48 hours.

Noone has studied this in whitetails to the same level of detail as in humans, but I suspect it's the same.... does will stand and accept bucks just before onset of ovulation, to ensure viable sperm is present at the time of actual ovulation. So while the entire receptive estrus timeframe is 24-36 hours, the most critical part is the 6h immediately following actual ovulation. Which is also why does mated with multiple bucks just before ovulation have twin fawns from different fathers. There were sperm already present in the genital tract from those matings prior to ovulation.

 

[Bone Collector]

When a doe or does come into heat, will they stay ready to breed until they get bred or will they have a second cycle?

They stay in heat for about 48 hours.

If so how long between cycles?

28 days

That's what they call the second rut. Right?

yes

Sorry I was way late

 

[Ski]

So while the entire receptive estrus timeframe is 24-36 hours, the most critical part is the 6h immediately following actual ovulation.

That's when they're wandering around the wide open bleating their heads off When momma wants it, she REALLY wants it.

 

[backyardtndeer]

That's when they're wandering around the wide open bleating their heads off When momma wants it, she REALLY wants it.

Or when you get a lonely doe searching hard for that buck that just grunted, that happened to be you.

 

[Ski]

Or when you get a lonely doe searching hard for that buck that just grunted, that happened to be you.

True story ^

 

[backyardtndeer]

True story ^

Yep. Watching and listening to them has helped me a lot with my calling sequences. Pulling in a lone hot doe is the best attractant and decoy possible.

 

[BSK]

Not certain about deer, but probably very similar to humans...

From the actual time of ovulation, the egg is only viable for 12 hours, and successful fertilization declines rapidly if sperm are not present 6h after ovulation. That being said, sperm can remain viable and capable of fertilization for up to 48 hours.

Noone has studied this in whitetails to the same level of detail as in humans, but I suspect it's the same.... does will stand and accept bucks just before onset of ovulation, to ensure viable sperm is present at the time of actual ovulation. So while the entire receptive estrus timeframe is 24-36 hours, the most critical part is the 6h immediately following actual ovulation. Which is also why does mated with multiple bucks just before ovulation have twin fawns from different fathers. There were sperm already present in the genital tract from those matings prior to ovulation.

That is GREAT information!

 

[redblood]

Not certain about deer, but probably very similar to humans...

From the actual time of ovulation, the egg is only viable for 12 hours, and successful fertilization declines rapidly if sperm are not present 6h after ovulation. That being said, sperm can remain viable and capable of fertilization for up to 48 hours.

Noone has studied this in whitetails to the same level of detail as in humans, but I suspect it's the same.... does will stand and accept bucks just before onset of ovulation, to ensure viable sperm is present at the time of actual ovulation. So while the entire receptive estrus timeframe is 24-36 hours, the most critical part is the 6h immediately following actual ovulation. Which is also why does mated with multiple bucks just before ovulation have twin fawns from different fathers. There were sperm already present in the genital tract from those matings prior to ovulation.

All that is true, but females (including does) are NOT fertile at the time of ovulation. It takes about 48 hours after ovulation for the eggs to "ripen" or be able to be breached by sperm cell. In our business, we ship semen around the globe-both frozen and chilled. Primary breeding times for us is 48 and 96 hours after ovulation. If doing surgical insemination- 96 hours and do one. With our registered cattled, we bred morning after standing heat. So ovulation and conception are 2 totally different events occurring on different days. We run blood progesterone levels to determine LH surge and consequent ovulation.

 

[redblood]

Not certain about deer, but probably very similar to humans...

From the actual time of ovulation, the egg is only viable for 12 hours, and successful fertilization declines rapidly if sperm are not present 6h after ovulation. That being said, sperm can remain viable and capable of fertilization for up to 48 hours.

Noone has studied this in whitetails to the same level of detail as in humans, but I suspect it's the same.... does will stand and accept bucks just before onset of ovulation, to ensure viable sperm is present at the time of actual ovulation. So while the entire receptive estrus timeframe is 24-36 hours, the most critical part is the 6h immediately following actual ovulation. Which is also why does mated with multiple bucks just before ovulation have twin fawns from different fathers. There were sperm already present in the genital tract from those matings prior to ovulation.

We have had viable semen tested 6 days after collection. It has alot to do with the overall health of the stud and much to do with the age of stud (buck). Sperm viability within the female has much to do with the internal dynamics of the uterus, most importantly is the pH

 

[megalomaniac]

All that is true, but females (including does) are NOT fertile at the time of ovulation. It takes about 48 hours after ovulation for the eggs to "ripen" or be able to be breached by sperm cell. In our business, we ship semen around the globe-both frozen and chilled. Primary breeding times for us is 48 and 96 hours after ovulation. If doing surgical insemination- 96 hours and do one. With our registered cattled, we bred morning after standing heat. So ovulation and conception are 2 totally different events occurring on different days. We run blood progesterone levels to determine LH surge and consequent ovulation.

Totally different than humans then!

But again, I'm not an expert on whitetail ovulation timing... deer may be more similar to cattle.

But whats really crazy are alpacas... my cousin farms them. They ovulate at any time, not on a heat cycle... but only after a male romances them for a period of time rubbing their front legs on their mid section... which stimulates the females to ovulate... then they mate as ovulation occurs...at least that what he tells me, and he is a wildlife biologist and one of the most knowledgeable alpaca farmers in TN.

But bottom line is that the egg is only viable for a short period of time after ovulation with most mammals, while sperm is viable for longer in the genital tract. Copulation before ovulation can result in a viable pregnancy, but copulation a day after ovulation will not likely result in a successful pregnancy

 

[BSK]

All that is true, but females (including does) are NOT fertile at the time of ovulation. It takes about 48 hours after ovulation for the eggs to "ripen" or be able to be breached by sperm cell.

If this is the case with whitetails, and I suspect it is, that would explain the "pattern" of the ritualistic chase sequence between buck and doe. A buck can probably smell that a doe has ovulated and begins to pursue her. She, at first, runs scared from the buck because she is not biologically receptive yet. But as time passes (a day or so) she slows down and the "chase" becomes more of what many of us hunters consider the true estrus chase: the doe trots ahead, stops and checks to make sure the buck is right behind her, and the buck follows slowly trotting along behind, head down and grunting.

Nature eventually works out everything. It is assumed the "chase phase" of estrus - by chasing all over the countryside for 24-48 hours - is Nature's way of ensuring the maximum number of bucks in the area know about the doe's impending readiness to breed. This allows many bucks to compete for her attention, ensuring the "fittest" most dominant buck eventually breeds her (although it can also mean she eventually gets bred by multiple bucks). Some research also suggests there is some mate selection by does, in that females may visually choose one buck over another. The criteria for their choice is unknown.

 

[Ski]

Nature eventually works out everything. It is assumed the "chase phase" of estrus - by chasing all over the countryside for 24-48 hours - is Nature's way of ensuring the maximum number of bucks in the area know about the doe's impending readiness to breed. This allows many bucks to compete for her attention, ensuring the "fittest" most dominant buck eventually breeds her (although it can also mean she eventually gets bred by multiple bucks). Some research also suggests there is some mate selection by does, in that females may visually choose one buck over another. The criteria for their choice is unknown.

https://www.ckwri.tamuk.edu/news-events/study-shows-female-deer-prefer-bigger-antlered-bucks-mates
I watched a video where MSU deer lab cut off bucks' antlers and adapted the nubs with an apparatus that allowed any antler to be attached. They could make a 5yr old buck look like a 1yr old, and visa versa. They aligned three cages in a row and put the estrus doe in the middle, sandwiched between two bucks. One buck was mature and one was not, but the antlers could be switched back & forth. In test after test the doe butted up against the cage of whichever buck was wearing the the big antlers at the time. It strongly suggested that a doe, if given a choice will select the biggest rack to be her stud. That obviously is a controlled study viewing through a very narrow window. No doubt there are more complex factors at play in nature. But it sure seemed to align exactly with the theory that the "chase" is her way of ensuring as many bucks as possible compete for her, and that she doesn't want just any runt. She wants a brute.

I tried to find the video on YouTube but couldn't. I did find an article from a Texas A&M program detailing it in the link.

 

[BSK]

https://www.ckwri.tamuk.edu/news-events/study-shows-female-deer-prefer-bigger-antlered-bucks-mates
I watched a video where MSU deer lab cut off bucks' antlers and adapted the nubs with an apparatus that allowed any antler to be attached. They could make a 5yr old buck look like a 1yr old, and visa versa. They aligned three cages in a row and put the estrus doe in the middle, sandwiched between two bucks. One buck was mature and one was not, but the antlers could be switched back & forth. In test after test the doe butted up against the cage of whichever buck was wearing the the big antlers at the time. It strongly suggested that a doe, if given a choice will select the biggest rack to be her stud. That obviously is a controlled study viewing through a very narrow window. No doubt there are more complex factors at play in nature. But it sure seemed to align exactly with the theory that the "chase" is her way of ensuring as many bucks as possible compete for her, and that she doesn't want just any runt. She wants a brute.

I tried to find the video on YouTube but couldn't. I did find an article from a Texas A&M program detailing it in the link.

I love studies like this! Truly fascinating stuff. But as you pointed out, that was a controlled study. In Nature it is assumed there is some mate selection by does, but that isn't the only factor in which buck sires a particular fawn.

A long-running landmark study from Oklahoma (I believe it was in a 4,000-acre high-fence), found that the most successful sire bucks were by no means the largest antlered bucks. In fact, they were very much average antler-wise for their age. However, they were very aggressive bucks. That study also pointed out just how "spread out" successful breeding is through the buck population, with very few bucks siring multiple fawns per year.

 

[Ski]

A long-running landmark study from Oklahoma (I believe it was in a 4,000-acre high-fence), found that the most successful sire bucks were by no means the largest antlered bucks. In fact, they were very much average antler-wise for their age. However, they were very aggressive bucks. That study also pointed out just how "spread out" successful breeding is through the buck population, with very few bucks siring multiple fawns per year.

Yeah I don't personally think a big dominant stud buck makes his rounds to all the does as much as some folks seem to think. Does aren't waiting their turn with him. What I've seen is that bulks of does come into heat at the same time, making it impossible for one buck to breed them all. I'm sure there's a natural selection cause for it to work that way. Logically it would go a long ways in preventing inbreeding because none of the fawns in that herd will be closely related due to all sharing a common father. But I really don't know.

Something uncanny I have seen play out is an older buck showing out of the blue and hanging around one particular doe for a week or so, then disappearing again not to be seen until the following year doing almost exactly the same thing, presumably with the same doe. It sure seems as if he knows her, knows when she's gonna heat up, and plans his visit accordingly. I can only assume he moves from lady to lady in that manner, which would also explain why older bucks seem to suddenly appear then a few days later suddenly disappear. That's not their core. It's just a girlfriend in another town. Or at least that's how I make sense of it.

 

[harv418]

Great Sharing guys. this cycles with everything I've learnt as well. One of our tricks for forecasting the First RUT is to keep cameras out over the spring and summer. Check them less frequently. have the date and time set correctly. From the DAY you see the first small fawn on camera, subtract 200 days. The gestational period for Whitetail is between 199-201 days. This will give you a good idea on when the first Rut occurs, and you can schedule appropriately.