CWD

[timberjack86]

Found this interesting

 

[lol]

Here you go:

https://www.researchgate.net/figure...epresentative-2D-cryo-EM-image_fig2_385214950

 

[timberjack86]

Here you go:

View attachment 286848

https://www.researchgate.net/figure...epresentative-2D-cryo-EM-image_fig2_385214950

Thanks for making me look like a dumb ass

 

[lol]

Thanks for making me look like a dumb ass

Im just jealous of those bucks you've been posting.

 

[BSK]

Can you see a virus? I can't. Even a scanning electron microscope has trouble seeing them they are so tiny. But they will flat out kill you if they are of the right kind.

 

[ROB]

Thanks for making me look like a dumb ass

You're not a dumbass. I have been studying transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (not specifically CWD) for over 30 years. CWD is a complex disease and, in many ways, unlike most other diseases. What I find frustrating is that deer hunters, rather than learning about the disease themselves, believe contrarians like Dr. Deer & Uncle Ted, both of whom maintain their relevance by disagreeing with mainstream wildlife disease experts. Perhaps one of the hardest points for some to accept about CWD is the long incubation period. of 18 to 24 months. So, some people have a hard time accepting that something is truly wrong with an infected deer because 95.5% of the time the deer is infected it looks & acts normal. The voice of reason regarding CWD, in my opinion, is Dr. Grant Woods. And the biggest effect of CWD isn't that it will decimate the deer herd but that it changes the culture of how we interact with deer. In areas where a large percentage of the deer are infected, lots of folks won't shoot does so deer management is greatly decreased. Common sense regulations to decrease spread & research to try to develop an oral vaccine are where we need to start. In people, polio & smallpox never reached herd immunity. They were both eradicated by scientific research.

 

[Novocaine]

You're not a dumbass. I have been studying transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (not specifically CWD) for over 30 years. CWD is a complex disease and, in many ways, unlike most other diseases. What I find frustrating is that deer hunters, rather than learning about the disease themselves, believe contrarians like Dr. Deer & Uncle Ted, both of whom maintain their relevance by disagreeing with mainstream wildlife disease experts. Perhaps one of the hardest points for some to accept about CWD is the long incubation period. of 18 to 24 months. So, some people have a hard time accepting that something is truly wrong with an infected deer because 95.5% of the time the deer is infected it looks & acts normal. The voice of reason regarding CWD, in my opinion, is Dr. Grant Woods. And the biggest effect of CWD isn't that it will decimate the deer herd but that it changes the culture of how we interact with deer. In areas where a large percentage of the deer are infected, lots of folks won't shoot does so deer management is greatly decreased. Common sense regulations to decrease spread & research to try to develop an oral vaccine are where we need to start. In people, polio & smallpox never reached herd immunity. They were both eradicated by scientific research.

Sorry but having survived the Covid pandemic, some folks are jaded about complex diseases where the experts tell us a disease we can't see any effects of requires us to completely change our way of life. And controversial treatments mandated by the government turn out to be deceptive and neither safe nor effective.

 

[BSK]

Sorry but having survived the Covid pandemic, some folks are jaded about complex diseases where the experts tell us a disease we can't see any effects of requires us to completely change our way of life. And controversial treatments mandated by the government turn out to be deceptive and neither safe nor effective.

I truly understand this sentiment. And to add to it, CWD (and other TSEs) are still not well understood. Researchers "think" they know how and where it is transmitted, but don't know for sure. They "think" they understand how it functions, but still don't know for sure. Yet then we have wildlife agencies and other interested groups mandating draconian measures to "combat the spread" of a disease no one really understands, even with very little science-based evidence that these measures will do anything. At times, these groups appear to be willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I appreciate their concern, and their willingness to try different measures, but how about we have hard data on the disease and hard data on factors that actually successfully combat the disease before implementing blanket measure.

 

[tellico4x4]

Thanks for making me look like a dumb ass

Is this what you thought it'd look like ?

 

[Novocaine]

 

[CritterGitter]

CWD is long for BS in my opinion. Im sure its a real thing but what twra did with it is a pure scam

 

[lol]

I truly understand this sentiment. And to add to it, CWD (and other TSEs) are still not well understood. Researchers "think" they know how and where it is transmitted, but don't know for sure. They "think" they understand how it functions, but still don't know for sure. Yet then we have wildlife agencies and other interested groups mandating draconian measures to "combat the spread" of a disease no one really understands, even with very little science-based evidence that these measures will do anything. At times, these groups appear to be willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I appreciate their concern, and their willingness to try different measures, but how about we have hard data on the disease and hard data on factors that actually successfully combat the disease before implementing blanket measure.

The big problem from my POV, and I'm glad you'd brought up Dr. Deer, is the misuse of information by folks who know better. These guys are a major source of public misunderstanding. This is and has always been a problem of the future with an unknown outcome other than knowing there will be some negative consequences generations from now. And most of these guys know better, but they've monetized their opinions and are more interested in telling people what they want to hear than to actually inform them.

The reality of the state of CWD research, as I understand it, is that we have insufficient information to understand where we land between best case and worst case scenarios. We know enough to know that the worst case scenario is catastrophic, but we don't know if its any more likely than any other potential outcome. Considering the magnitude of the worst case, I can understand why some folks in position of authority have attempted to delay spread in the interim. The problem is that the only real delay tactic is culling--which is an extreme measure, especially in the absence of any real negative impact on herd health caused by CWD in the present. Whether or not this is what we should be doing is over my pay grade.

On top of that, without solid understanding of how the herd will be affected in 30 or 50 years or more, we could find out tomorrow that the culling was completely unnecessary or the best thing we could have done. Its a complicated issue that shouldn't be ignored and folks making these decisions aren't doing so out of ignorance or malice. No matter what is done its going to suck in some fashion, whether its herd annihilation in 80 years or a herd with decreased life expectancy in 30 years.

 

[timberjack86]

View attachment 287125
Is this what you thought it'd look like ?

 

[BSK]

The big problem from my POV, and I'm glad you'd brought up Dr. Deer, is the misuse of information by folks who know better. These guys are a major source of public misunderstanding. This is and has always been a problem of the future with an unknown outcome other than knowing there will be some negative consequences generations from now. And most of these guys know better, but they've monetized their opinions and are more interested in telling people what they want to hear than to actually inform them.

The reality of the state of CWD research, as I understand it, is that we have insufficient information to understand where we land between best case and worst case scenarios. We know enough to know that the worst case scenario is catastrophic, but we don't know if its any more likely than any other potential outcome. Considering the magnitude of the worst case, I can understand why some folks in position of authority have attempted to delay spread in the interim. The problem is that the only real delay tactic is culling--which is an extreme measure, especially in the absence of any real negative impact on herd health caused by CWD in the present. Whether or not this is what we should be doing is over my pay grade.

On top of that, without solid understanding of how the herd will be affected in 30 or 50 years or more, we could find out tomorrow that the culling was completely unnecessary or the best thing we could have done. Its a complicated issue that shouldn't be ignored and folks making these decisions aren't doing so out of ignorance or malice. No matter what is done its going to suck in some fashion, whether its herd annihilation in 80 years or a herd with decreased life expectancy in 30 years.

EXCELLENT post lol. I agree.

As for those like "Dr. Deer," he is trying to protect a major financial investment of his, hence he is saying things that are patently untrue. very disappointing.

 

[BSK]

Another major problem is the "The Sky is Falling" group. I put the QDMA/NDA in that group. We have a disease that is contagious, and as far as we know, 100% fatal if contracted. However, we have locations that have had this disease in great abundance for 40 years, yet whitetails are still around in huntable numbers. So, is the sky really falling? Not really. Now has the disease harmed these herds? Oh yes! But have deer been wiped out? Not even close. Something isn't adding up here.

 

[th88]

Some great information in this thread that I wish more people could understand!!! Three members who responded are spot on with their info.

 

[Novocaine]

CWD is long for BS in my opinion. Im sure its a real thing but what twra did with it is a pure scam

Federal dollars make "conservative" state officials or agencies do stupid things.

 

[killingtime 41]

Now this isn't a debate about baiting. But were we not told that baiting would enhance the spread of CWD. Now it's ok as long as you've paid the fee to bait. This is the kind of information we as hunters are getting. Either it is or it isn't spreading the disease faster. What can we do about cwd. Nothing that I can see. Whats been done in the states that's had 40 years. Nothing that I can see. But kill em all isn't gonna work either. So any information one way or the other seems pointless if nothing is gonna fix it.

 

[AlabamaSwamper]

Problem is real world isn't following their models. Only regs and sharp shooters in some states have affected numbers.

That's the problem and there's plenty of us that hunt states and areas to speak on it with experience.

Throw in covering up bad tests among other things, why would anyone not question it?

 

[mike243]

Now this isn't a debate about baiting. But were we not told that baiting would enhance the spread of CWD. Now it's ok as long as you've paid the fee to bait. This is the kind of information we as hunters are getting. Either it is or it isn't spreading the disease faster. What can we do about cwd. Nothing that I can see. Whats been done in the states that's had 40 years. Nothing that I can see. But kill em all isn't gonna work either. So any information one way or the other seems pointless if nothing is gonna fix it.

And you didn't read that it was politicians that forced the baiting bullshit through? it wasn't TWRA.

 

[killingtime 41]

That's why I didn't say TWRA. How is it they are not the last say in regs and rule changes. They are a separate entity from the state gov. Or did politicians come up with this. And the TWRA get pressured to approve it. Who makes the rules and regs.

 

[WTNBowHunter]

I certainly don't have the perfect solution, and not sure if there is a perfect solution but the blanket regulations certainly weren't the best solution.
Genuine question, has a state agency or reputable research facility confirmed that this is, in fact, a prion like CJD? Outside of the CDC, which has lost confidence from the American public in the last 5 years…

 

[lol]

That's why I didn't say TWRA. How is it they are not the last say in regs and rule changes. They are a separate entity from the state gov. Or did politicians come up with this. And the TWRA get pressured to approve it. Who makes the rules and regs.

TWRA is an administrative agency. They will always be at the mercy of the legislature. They cannot act but through statutory grant of authority. Their regs must be in furtherance of the legislative prerogative. The scope of their authority is explained here: https://law.justia.com/codes/tennessee/title-70/chapter-1/part-3/section-70-1-305/

 

[BSK]

I certainly don't have the perfect solution, and not sure if there is a perfect solution but the blanket regulations certainly weren't the best solution.
Genuine question, has a state agency or reputable research facility confirmed that this is, in fact, a prion like CJD? Outside of the CDC, which has lost confidence from the American public in the last 5 years…

Yes. they know the prion in question and its genetic code. That's how they've been able to show that - to date - no one has gotten CJD from eating infected venison. When people in Europe started getting CJD from eating beef infected with Mad Cow Disease (MCD), it produced a slightly different genetic variant of CJD than what naturally occurs in people. They call it CJD(v), the "v" being for "variant." CJD naturally occurs in humans at a rate of 1 in a million people. The genetic variant version, that comes from being infected by MCD infected 206 people out of the estimate 38 million that ate infected beef, producing an infection rate of somewhere around 1 in 185,000 that were exposed. To date, no one has been diagnosed with CJD with a variant linked to CWD.

 

[lol]

Yes. they know the prion in question and its genetic code. That's how they've been able to show that - to date - no one has gotten CJD from eating infected venison. When people in Europe started getting CJD from eating beef infected with Mad Cow Disease (MCD), it produced a slightly different genetic variant of CJD than what naturally occurs in people. They call it CJD(v), the "v" being for "variant." CJD naturally occurs in humans at a rate of 1 in a million people. The genetic variant version, that comes from being infected by MCD infected 206 people out of the estimate 38 million that ate infected beef, producing an infection rate of somewhere around 1 in 185,000 that were exposed. To date, no one has been diagnosed with CJD with a variant linked to CWD.

Wasn't a lot of the transmission with MCD due to sloppy meat processing which allowed nerve tissue to be processed into meat? I didn't think it was transmissible through ingestion of muscle meat alone.

 

[BSK]

Wasn't a lot of the transmission with MCD due to sloppy meat processing which allowed nerve tissue to be processed into meat? I didn't think it was transmissible through injection of muscle meat alone.

Europeans eat every part of animal, unlike us in the U.S. Brains and all internal organs are considered food items. Liver, kidneys, heart, intestines, everything.

 

[lol]

Europeans eat every part of animal, unlike us in the U.S. Brains and all internal organs are considered food items. Liver, kidneys, heart, intestines, everything.

That explains their breath.

 

[DoubleRidge]

That explains their breath.

Thanks alot.....laughed so hard I spit part of my lunch on my phone screen!

 

[BSK]

That explains their breath.

HA!

Honestly, what Europeans eat regularly turns my stomach. Personally, I have no interest in eating an animal's tongue, stomach, brain, or intestines. Even kidneys are pushing it a bit. But I admire their desire to not waste any part of an animal.

 

[Iglow]

Here you go:

View attachment 286848

https://www.researchgate.net/figure...epresentative-2D-cryo-EM-image_fig2_385214950

What exactly is it? Is it alive? Is it like radiation and malforms what it comes in contact with? Is it a poison compound? What the hell is it?