Crud Ring

[dt-34715]

I know I have heard this talked about before, but with my T/C
Omega with one shot the bullet is almost impossibe to seat against the powder. I acually have to take a rag on the end of the rod and put all my weight on it.
I have tried 777 primers and Remington Cleanbore primers.
I also use 90 grains 777 powder and 250 grain shockwave.

My son shoots a CVA Optima and does not have this problem.

How can this be corrected?

 

[BucknBass]

Use the new Blackhorn 209 powder. I bought some after a bunch of research and it's the cat's meow. No crud ring in my Encore (which had it bad w/777. No cleaning between shots. VERY little smoke even with full 120gr charge. Can wait to clean whenever you want - no corrosion.

I guess I could write their commercials - LOL

Try it - you'll like it.

 

[dt-34715]

Use the new Blackhorn 209 powder. I bought some after a bunch of research and it's the cat's meow. No crud ring in my Encore (which had it bad w/777. No cleaning between shots. VERY little smoke even with full 120gr charge. Can wait to clean whenever you want - no corrosion.

I guess I could write their commercials - LOL

Try it - you'll like it.

Do you get good acurracy and did you use the same charge as the 777?

 

[LCU]

Buy the pre-moistened patches by TC.
They are like a tack rag sold to body shops.
It will remove the crud ring,and make it a lot easier to load.

I had the same problem with my Omega,before finding these patches. I was using a TC liquid that looks like waterered down milk. It cleaned the barrel,but not down to the surface of the steel.
Now I load 250gr Shockwaves easily. I shoot with 150gr of 777.
I have a SS barrel.

 

[dt-34715]

Does it load on the second shot without running a patch to knock the ring off?

 

[CHRIS WILSON]

It's funny how some rifles do that with 777 and others don't. I had an optima that had the crud ring issue. I replaced the barrel and had no crud ring issues with the new barrel. The Knight I'm currently shooting has no issues with it either.

 

[NimrodMar10]

Crud rings are a fact of life with the 777. Just swab between shots or go to Blackhorn or back to Pyrodex.

 

[dt-34715]

Crud rings are a fact of life with the 777. Just swab between shots or go to Blackhorn or back to Pyrodex.

You don't think pyrodex caused the ring?

 

[mike243]

i got a theory on the crud ring,777 is harder to lite than pyrodex,when the cap goes off the bullet is pushed forward before the charge goes off,instead of containing most of the bang behind the bullets normal resting spot it moves outward.if the sabot is a tite fit it might not move with the cap pressure & reduce or not create a crud ring where you have to force the bullet past it to seat it.thats the only reasonable reason i can see where each gun is diffrent,a larger bore might be the culprit,i know a lot of encore's wont shoot PB & that might be part of the reason,mike243

 

[FULLDRAWXX75]

May I add to your theory..........

I don't use the PB's, but am familiar with them. I am wondering it the ring is not caused by initial blow by on the "sabot" ring before it expands to seal and build pressure to launch the bullet down the tube. Kinda like an exhaust leak on a manifold.

I don't think the cap generates enough pressure to move the load in the barrel.

The plastic band on the PB's has a much shorter skirt on it than most sabots if I recall correctly.

Just a thought.

FDXX75

 

[mike243]

well i thought of that but i dont think the fire would have time to lite once it went past the bullet,i first thought of that & thought the bullet might be over riding it & causeing it to bind to the meatal more due to pressure.you would think they could measure the barrels & see if that was what causes it.its not just power belts that do it from what i have read.i reckon a engineer will work on it & find the cause,whats a ol hillbilly like me know about guns anyway mike243

 

[mike243]

just had a thought,i have read that a 25acp ? primmer will stop the ring,you reckon with more pressure it moves the bullet way on out & the burning powder has a longer lenght to burn so its not so concentrated? mike243

 

[mike243]

well the 2nd pellet more than likely exsplodes from the inside out which may be part of it,if the 2nd pellet was solid i bet the crud ring would be history,that would make it burn from the back & stop the sideways push,reckon i can take credit for this when all the powder companys start making 1 of them solid mike243

 

[FULLDRAWXX75]

I am under the impression the hole is the equal out the burn rate and help generate a more even controlled burn.

Have you ever unloaded your inline with out shooting it? I have and the first and second pellet were crumbled, nearly loose powder. ?? They seem hard enough when you drop them down the pipe.

I saw the thoughts or claims that the 209 primer is to hot and causing the entire load to jump. I just find that hard to believe, knowing how hard the bullet pushes down the tube sometimes.

FDXX75

 

[mike243]

i unloaded mine by pulling the plug & both pellets were intact,pyrodex,i'm just going to shoot it & not worry about the ring,a spit patch & a dry 1 clear it up fine for target pratice,as long as i push past the ring with the 2nd or more shots it still shoots good,mike243

 

[FULLDRAWXX75]

I am using the pyrodex pellets as well, 3-30grs. I shot an Omega, I haven't had this problem with the ring.

FDXX75

 

[mike243]

i didnt have the problem with pyro either,i wanted a CHANGE this year so i resited with 777 shore cleans up easier i must admit,mike243

 

[NimrodMar10]

FDXX75
If you're crushing the pellets you're using too much seating pressure when you seat the bullet. The reason the pellets have the hole, and the reason they are smaller than bore diameter, is to control the burn pattern when the pellets ar ignited. Crushing the pellets is a bad thing. Seat the bullet only until you feel it contact the pellet.

Pyrodex doesn't create a crud ring because it if a different formulation than 777. It even has a small amount of black powder on the bottom of the pellet to insure better ignition. This darker colored powder should be seated toward the primer.

It also doesn't matter if you're shooting Power Belts or sabots, 777 will make the crud ring. If you want any accuracy from shot to shot you must remove the crud ring so the bullet can be seated to the same depth each time.

Regular 209 primers will push the pellets and bullet up the barrel a fraction before it ignites. That's why Winchester and Remington make special ML primers. They have a reduced amount of ignition chemical in them to stop this problem.

If you use the new Blackhorn 209 powder, do not use the reduced power 209 ML primers. Blackhorn is harder to ignite and needs the full powered 209 primers. You can not ignite them with a No. 11 percussion cap. Thus the "209" in the name.

Someone, I believe it's Knight, makes a breech plug with a ported tube that extends half way into the holes in the 777 pellets. Supposedly this stops the crud ring from forming. If this is true then the crud ring is formed because of the burn pattern of the pellets. Maybe some flutes in the hole, like those inside solid propellent rocket motors, could be used to change the burn pattern enough to stop the ring. Just a thought. I'm not a rocket scientist, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

 

[FULLDRAWXX75]

Thanks Nim,

That is some great info.

I don't get harsh on the bullet seating thing, I only had to take it down once that way, usually I just touch it off and clean it up.

FDXX75