BSK, gonna love this one

[BSK]

i dont know about the accuracy of his predictions-time will solve that riddle...

"Time" (and good research) have already solved the question of the accuracy of his rut predictions. They are inaccurate.

 

[BSK]

I'm not saying successful trophy hunters don't know anything about deer. What I'm saying is the knowledge required to be a successful trophy hunter is VERY different than what is required to understand deer herd biology and management. What I often see with successful trophy hunters is they make exceptionally savvy observations about deer behavior that help them pattern and understand daylight deer movements better than the vast majority of other hunters, but they jump to completely erroneous conclusions as to biologically WHY deer are doing the things they observe them doing.

So, basically, they are great at knowing how, and maybe when deer do something, as opposed to a biologist knowing why they do it.

Correct. Good hunters often notice patterns in deer activity that they later exploit to their advantage, making them more successful killers of specific deer. However, noticing the pattern doesn't explain why that pattern occurs. Knowing why that pattern occurs can also provide predictive information that leads to hunting success.

 

[BSK]

I didn't take it personally. I'm just trying to figure out the issue. So is his reliance and usage of the solunar calendar is your beef?

My first beef is his promotion of bad information--information (that moon cycles trigger breeding timing in deer) that has been known to be false for a number of years; long enough that he should know better, as that information has been widely available. My second beef, not directed at the author but at many hunters, is that because he has killed some nice bucks, hunters will assume he is very knowledgeable about deer biology and management issues. The author may be a wealth of information about hunting big bucks in the Midwest, but that doesn't automatically mean he has knowledge of deer biology and management. Yet hunters will see his bucks on the wall, make the illogical leap that he "knows what he's talking about," and then soak in everything he has to say, ignoring the facts learned through real science.

That last part may seem unimportant, as people are free to believe anything they want, and good scientists often disagree on what the "truth" really is. But as an educator, ever since "professional hunters" and their self-aggrandizing TV shows became popular, I have had to spend the vast majority of my time "undoing" all the bad information these "pros" spout and hunters eat up because they heard it on TV from a pro hunter. If those pro hunters would take the time to educate themselves, they could be a huge help in educating hunters on biologically sound management concepts. Unfortunately, they don't appear to be interested in that, and worse yet, it often appears their promotion of false information is linked to personal monetary gain.

Personally, I have no problem with people benefitting monetarily from the commercialization of deer hunting or knowledge of deer. But if you're going to "sell information," then sell accurate information.

 

[jlmustain]

Do you have a 'site? If not, have you thought about it? De-bunking myths is always an audience magnet.

 

[MattR]

Too many people take the garbage that comes out of alot of these "professional hunters" mouths as a fact when it is very far from the truth and this article proves it. Misinformation. It makes it a lot harder for hunters who are trying to soak up all the deer hunting information they can when you have people writing information that they do not understand or know to be fact.

 

[Winchester]

Consistently killing mature bucks involves not only knowledge but time and opportunity. Knowledge not only of the animal but of the terrain and food sources. However, the overriding factor in consistently killing mature bucks on any land, private or public is luck.



EXACTLY!

I agree to a point, but when this feat is achieved on a consistent basis, much much more is involved than luck alone! I agree luck plays a role, but to do this consistently is far from lucky alone!

 

[BSK]

Do you have a 'site?

Yes. TNdeer.com!

Actually, I used to answer questions on several deer hunting talk forums, but I mainly stick to TNdeer and ALdeer these days.

 

[102]

Consistently killing mature bucks involves not only knowledge but time and opportunity. Knowledge not only of the animal but of the terrain and food sources. However, the overriding factor in consistently killing mature bucks on any land, private or public is luck.



EXACTLY!

I agree to a point, but when this feat is achieved on a consistent basis, much much more is involved than luck alone! I agree luck plays a role, but to do this consistently is far from lucky alone!

Yea right Winchester...try to prove skill over luck to the nay sayers!!!

 

[BSK]

I agree that consistently killing old, wary deer, year after year, is far more than luck or time spent in the woods. Luck and time spent are helpful, but knowledge and skill are far more important, and can always be found attributal to consistent success.

 

[jlmustain]

I was talking about for articles. I'd love to read a biologist/hunter's take on an array of subjects. I'm mostly interested in scouting for bow season on public lands right now. An article, for me, takes away the mystery of having to ask the right questions on a subject I don't know what I don't know about. Ha!

 

[GreyGoose]

wow ,this one will go on for a while...let*s get it on

 

[BSK]

I was talking about for articles. I'd love to read a biologist/hunter's take on an array of subjects. I'm mostly interested in scouting for bow season on public lands right now. An article, for me, takes away the mystery of having to ask the right questions on a subject I don't know what I don't know about. Ha!

Subscribe to Quality Whitetails by joining the Quality Deer Management Association (QDMA). They have been publishing articles written by biologist and researcher professionals--but written in language intended for the average hunter--for many years. This magazine specializes in presenting the latest in deer biology and management research, but always written for the average hunter and/or land manager in mind.

 

[redblood]

I agree that consistently killing old, wary deer, year after year, is far more than luck or time spent in the woods. Luck and time spent are helpful, but knowledge and skill are far more important, and can always be found attributal to consistent success.

i know of one guy i consider an expert at it and he told me, the key is not knowing when to hunt, it is knowing when not to hunt. most hunter overeducate the deer with a blue collar worksmanship approach.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

I agree that consistently killing old, wary deer, year after year, is far more than luck or time spent in the woods. Luck and time spent are helpful, but knowledge and skill are far more important, and can always be found attributal to consistent success.

i know of one guy i consider an expert at it and he told me, the key is not knowing when to hunt, it is knowing when not to hunt. most hunter overeducate the deer with a blue collar worksmanship approach.

Agreed!

 

[BowGuy84]

I agree that consistently killing old, wary deer, year after year, is far more than luck or time spent in the woods. Luck and time spent are helpful, but knowledge and skill are far more important, and can always be found attributal to consistent success.

i know of one guy i consider an expert at it and he told me, the key is not knowing when to hunt, it is knowing when not to hunt. most hunter overeducate the deer with a blue collar worksmanship approach.

Agreed!

I totally agree.

I like to hunt butin many instances I don't hunt even the same property that my best bucks are on if the situations aren't right.

 

[BSK]

I agree that consistently killing old, wary deer, year after year, is far more than luck or time spent in the woods. Luck and time spent are helpful, but knowledge and skill are far more important, and can always be found attributal to consistent success.

i know of one guy i consider an expert at it and he told me, the key is not knowing when to hunt, it is knowing when not to hunt. most hunter overeducate the deer with a blue collar worksmanship approach.

Excellent point redblood. I believe the biggest mistake most hunters make is over-hunting locations.

 

[TheLBLman]

My first beef is his promotion of bad information--information (that moon cycles trigger breeding timing in deer) that has been known to be false for a number of years; . . . . . Unfortunately, they don't appear to be interested in that, and worse yet, it often appears their promotion of false information is linked to personal monetary gain.

Personally, I have no problem with people benefiting monetarily from the commercialization of deer hunting or knowledge of deer. But if you're going to "sell information," then sell accurate information.

x 2

When I first met BSK over a decade ago, I had to wonder about him.
I actually thought about the only way he could kill a mature buck was to "ugly" one to death. Somewhere I have a pic of him with a buck, that does in fact appear to have died just from looking towards BSK.

But I've found most of what BSK says to be "spot on" correct. (Just pay no attention to him if he says anything about bowhunting.)

To add a personal observation from my experiences in killing a few and passing up a few more mature bucks in Tennessee, the number one factor effecting daytime mature buck movement during the Tennessee rut is NOT moon phase: It is temperature. No other factor stimulates daytime deer movement during TN's rut more than cooler than normal temperatures. Doesn't matter to me how much or when the bucks are rutting at night, based on the moon or any other factors. I want to see them during the day.

Excellent point redblood. I believe the biggest mistake most hunters make is over-hunting locations.

That has been very true in my experiences and observations.
Particularly, hunters are "nocturnalizing" localized deer movement simply by using a particular stand or location too often, and most often, when the conditions are very low probability. ONLY hunt a particular stand or "spot" when the conditions are IDEAL. You'll actually kill more older bucks if you instead go fishing when the conditions are not ideal to hunt a specific spot.

 

[BSK]

I actually thought about the only way he could kill a mature buck was to "ugly" one to death. Somewhere I have a pic of him with a buck, that does in fact appear to have died just from looking towards BSK.

If I couldn't "ugly deer to death," I would never kill any!

 

[TheLBLman]

You should post a pic of yourself from back in your "long hair" days, carrying "Thor's Hammers", posing with a buck, with that meaner than mean look on your face!

Most particularly, that one with the buck on which no one could find any visible wound. He obviously had been scared to death.

 

[BSK]

You mean this one?