BSK,..(camera census)

[deerchaser007]

From your post ,. you run your cameras from august til december the best i can tell. I usually run mine from end of june til end of january and move them around. This year i'm wanting to try something different. I'm thinking of setting out my cams over my 2 trophy rock sites for a month straight and never enter for that month. Probably July. Then.. run august on my northern hunting property over trophy rock for the whole month. I'm gonna hunt archery on the northern property ,. so i will run another census on my property in september and october over food plots. Then,. pull them out. Have you ever tried this technique over running them straight through the season?? If so,. which do you recommend and why?
NOTE,.this will be the first year of census on the northern property period. I've hunted that area since i was a kid and have never known anyone to run a camera. No horses or cows the past 8 years and its a jungle. BUT,.. owner tells me he plans on no more livestock so i have a trophy rock site that i developed last year in early summer. Its well established this year ,. and i think i can get a good idea of whats there on this site. To my knowledge,. no other mineral lick around on the neighboring properties. Any words of advice for this site?
I've been running cameras for 6 years now ,. but am always looking for better ways to get the best data i can from a good photo census. Appreciate any advice. THANKS

 

[BSK]

I run my cameras on Trophy Rock the entire month of August, although I generally get all the unique bucks I'm going to get in the first two weeks.

In earlt September I start moving my cameras to all "non-baited" locations (trails, bottlenecks, both planted and natural food sources, etc.) and then run them at non-baited locations through the season into post-season (until January 31st).

Personally, I don't start running cameras until August 1 because I don't want the bucks first encounter with a camera until their rack is nearly fully formed. If I spook a particular buck away from the cameras earlier in the summer, I may not get to see him again with a fully-formed rack, and the only pictures I will have of him is with a partially formed rack, making identification later in the year more difficult.

As for only running cameras during certain months, I definitely would not miss November. Many bucks expand or shift their range only around the rut, and if you aren't running cameras during that short window you won't know those bucks were using your property. Almost 50% of the bucks we harvest on my place are these "rut-season range expanders and shifters." These bucks only use my property from around Oct. 31 through early December, and then are gone for the year. The number of bucks that shift into a smaller property only around the rut can be substantial. Often 1/3 of the total number of bucks I catch on film for a given year are these rut-season visitors.

 

[deerchaser007]

How do you place your cams in november for the shifters and range expanders?? This is were i'm really missing my oppurtunity i think. Thanks,.. i may wait til august this year,.. that makes alot sense about making them camera shy before full antler development.

 

[BSK]

How do you place your cams in november for the shifters and range expanders?? This is were i'm really missing my oppurtunity i think. Thanks,.. i may wait til august this year,.. that makes alot sense about making them camera shy before full antler development.

During November, I keep at least 50% of my cameras on active scrapes, and I try to move them frequently (every week), even if it's just to a different scrape 50 yards away. You wouldn't believe how often different bucks use different scrapes along the same scrape line. If a scrape doesn't exist in a likely place, I make a mock scrape. I get some great photos off mock scrapes.

I will also rotate a couple of cameras around on small 1/4 to 1/2-acre food plots, as bucks often cruise these areas at night looking for does.

 

[CopperHead77]

Great info!

 

[deerchaser007]

How do you place your cams in november for the shifters and range expanders?? This is were i'm really missing my oppurtunity i think. Thanks,.. i may wait til august this year,.. that makes alot sense about making them camera shy before full antler development.

During November, I keep at least 50% of my cameras on active scrapes, and I try to move them frequently (every week), even if it's just to a different scrape 50 yards away. You wouldn't believe how often different bucks use different scrapes along the same scrape line. If a scrape doesn't exist in a likely place, I make a mock scrape. I get some great photos off mock scrapes.

I will also rotate a couple of cameras around on small 1/4 to 1/2-acre food plots, as bucks often cruise these areas at night looking for does.

A likely place to make a mock scrape would be?? I've tried that the past 2 years with no success. I have to be doing something wrong. And i will be honest,. i have a hard time finding active scrapes on my farm. And have the past 4 years. I have no answer for it,.. i can find rub lines ,.. but not really good active scrapes. Any reason you can think of for this??

 

[BSK]

A likely place to make a mock scrape would be?? I've tried that the past 2 years with no success. I have to be doing something wrong. And i will be honest,. i have a hard time finding active scrapes on my farm. And have the past 4 years. I have no answer for it,.. i can find rub lines ,.. but not really good active scrapes. Any reason you can think of for this??

Where to put mock scrapes is one of the toughest questions to answer because it is more "instinct" than anything else. Generally I can predict where the scrapes will show up based on terrain and habitat. Scrapes are chemical communication devices hence bucks will make them where the most deer will interact with them. This usually means some sort of bottleneck in deer movement patterns. Basically, like an interchange along a freeway or intersection of two freeways. Where do advertisers concentrate their billboards? At intersections of major highways so that the maximum number of travellers will see them. If I find a travel pattern bottleneck of intersection and there is NOT a natural scrape there, I will make one.

And for whatever reason--and it is probably curiosity--I seem to get more mature buck pictures at mock scrapes than real scrapes.

Rubbing and scraping activity are primarily functions of herd sructure instead of population density. Even low density deer herds can produce a tremendous number of rubs and scrapes IF herd dynamics are right. Basically, it is competition that drives rubbing and scraping. The more competition between bucks for breeding rights, the more "advertising" and "communicating" they do.

 

[deerchaser007]

I find lots of rubs in my high movement areas,.. especially in my low gap and on the ridgeflat out from the food plot. BUT,.. very few scrapes. I don't get it. I also tend to find more of my rubs (usually fresh) later than most folks on here. Most rubs i find are in late november thru mid december. Which,.. i have found that seems to be the peak of the first rut in my area. The past 4 years i have observed more rutting activity after thanksgiving instead of before in cannon county. AND,. typically when our bucks are killed during muzzleloader week,. their tarsals are not darkened at all. BUT,. about 10 years ago i saw a buck chasing a doe at my house in late january ,.. so outside of my hunting property,.. i still observe more of a rut that just goes on for awhile.

BUT,. i'll give the mock scrape a try again this year in my high movement areas and see my results. And thanks again.

 

[BSK]

deerchaser007,

You very well may have a peak of breeding the first week or two of December. That is fairly common in far southwest TN and along the MS and AL border. If you look at the below linked map of breeding dates for the state of MS, up in the northwest corner of the state near Memphis, peak breeding dates are Dec. 6-13, yet in the northeast corner, very near the TN border, there are peak dates of as late as Jan. 16-24.

http://www.mdwfp.com/Level2/Wildlife/Ga ... eeding.asp

 

[deerchaser007]

WOW,.. thats a cool link. I never would have thought peak would be that late anywere near TN. AND,. may be very possible in parts of southern TN. Especially not in mid january. This past january,. a friend of my oldest niece run over a nice 8 point that was for sure 3.5 plus in age. Late january,. nose to tale on a hot doe, 8:30 in the morning. I kinda figured maybe a second rut for my area,.. now i wonder!!

 

[BSK]

Last year was very strange. Many people reported a very late rut last year as well as a stronger 2nd rut than the first. Normally I poo-poo the idea of large shifts in rutting activity from year to year, as my data show very little change in breeding dates over many years of tracking individual properties. But I have to admit, my data suggested exactly what many were reporting--a late rut and a very strong second rut. I strongly suspect the drought, heat and EHD outbreak had something to do with this wierd shift in breeding dates.

What I'm getting at is don't put to much emphasis on what you saw last year. It may have been a single year anomaly brought on by extraordinary conditions.

Although properties just north of the TN border at the northeast corner of MS and northwest corner of AL very well may have a naturally late rut.

 

[CBU93]

Is it just me, or do you find it a bit strange that no where in MS is there any peak breeding in November?

Not saying that it doesn't happen then, just the peak being in December...talked to the manager at O'Keefe WMA in the north delta a few years ago. He stated then that post season fetal fat surveys showed peak breeding on Dec 24.

 

[BSK]

Is it just me, or do you find it a bit strange that no where in MS is there any peak breeding in November?

Not saying that it doesn't happen then, just the peak being in December...talked to the manager at O'Keefe WMA in the north delta a few years ago. He stated then that post season fetal fat surveys showed peak breeding on Dec 24.

No one knows why Deep South states see such unusual peak breeding dates. Many have proposed that the bizarre mixture of peak breeding dates seen in many southern states are due to the mixing and matching of so many different genetic strains of deer during restocking. However, that Mississippi peak breeding date map is a perfect example of why I don't think that is the cause of localized variations in peak breeding. If they were due to restocking a map of peak breeding dates would be an unrelated hodge-podge of dates in pockets, with no rhyme or reason. Yet the map of MS dates shows smooth transitions from location to location with a steady progression of dates from one part of the state to another. This suggests "method"--a driving environmental force at work.

In other areas, it has been well documented that peak breeding occurs about 200 days before the most advantageous time to give birth to fawns, either driven by resource availability (when the most high-quality nutrition will be available) or environmental/climatic limitations on fawn survival. Now what "advantages," if any, there would be for the wide range of breeding dates in many Deep South areas is unknown. But I'm a firm believer there are reasons/advantages and that Nature has worked them out through Natural Selection.

 

[CBU93]

Bryan,

With what you just said, and I know I may be going off topic here, but historically you have said that you have been able to shift your rut ahead a couple weeks over time. Mostly from your posts, I attributed this to your aggresive doe management...but do you have any data to suggest that habitat management plays as much of a role? After all, if it about advantageous times to give birth, I would surmise that habitat factors would be much more beneficial in terms of the timing of the rut.

"In other areas, it has been well documented that peak breeding occurs about 200 days before the most advantageous time to give birth to fawns, either driven by resource availability (when the most high-quality nutrition will be available) or environmental/climatic limitations on fawn survival."

 

[BSK]

Bryan,

With what you just said, and I know I may be going off topic here, but historically you have said that you have been able to shift your rut ahead a couple weeks over time. Mostly from your posts, I attributed this to your aggresive doe management...but do you have any data to suggest that habitat management plays as much of a role? After all, if it about advantageous times to give birth, I would surmise that habitat factors would be much more beneficial in terms of the timing of the rut.

"In other areas, it has been well documented that peak breeding occurs about 200 days before the most advantageous time to give birth to fawns, either driven by resource availability (when the most high-quality nutrition will be available) or environmental/climatic limitations on fawn survival."

There are many driving forces in breading dates. Without question genetics plays a role (through Natural Selection, deer with a genetic propensity to breed at the "best" time for fawn survival pass on that genetic propensity at a higher rate hence it becomes dominant in the local population). In addition, herd health has been documented to affect the ability of females to reach estrus at the appropriate time (does in poor health will reach estrus later than healthy does from the same population). Herd dynamics (sex ratio and buck age structure) can also influence breeding timing through the production of sexual "timing" pheromones.

However, there are geographic differences in how much leeway Nature can give to deer in breeding timing. In the North, the window of possible birth dates for high fawn survival is very narrow. Fawns born to early can succumb to late winter storms. Fawns born too late will not reach the critical body size required for survival during the area's brutal winters. Because the breeding window is so tight, nature won't allow much shifting of dates. In essence, northern deer are VERY genetically hard-wired into specific breeding dates.

In the South, fawn birth dates have mess influence on fawn survival. We don't have killing spring winter weather (at least not cold enough to kill newborn fawns) and late-born and underweight fawns are not regularly killed by Deep South winter weather (it doesn't get cold enough). This provides an opportunity for much more fluctuations in breeding dates. That is most likely why experiments on the influence of herd health and structure has seen the greatest shifts of breeding dates in the Deep South. Similar experiments in the North do not see shifts in breeding dates because the current breeding dates are so critical--very narrow window of acceptable breeding dates for fawn survival. In the MidSouth--the TN area--you have a mix of the two. Breeding dates can be shifted more than in the North but not anywhere near as far as in the Deep South.

But to answer your question more specifically, I have seen data from both situations--herd health and herd structure--that showed shifts forward in breeding dates for southern deer herds. But probably the correct way to look at these shifts is not "artifically forward" but back to where Nature intended them to be for highest fawn survival. In essence, poor health or poor herd dynamics were delaying the rut from what it should be and improving those characteristics simply corrected the problem.

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

I don't know why, but I do know that you will see many many more scrapes in flat ground than you will in hilly terrain. I can find 80 or more scrapes on a farm I hunt in flat ground that is only a 50 acre peice of ground. I have a couple hundred acres in and around my place in the hills and I will do good to find 5 or 6. Why is that? There is just as many deer on the hilly farms.

 

[BSK]

I don't know why, but I do know that you will see many many more scrapes in flat ground than you will in hilly terrain. I can find 80 or more scrapes on a farm I hunt in flat ground that is only a 50 acre peice of ground. I have a couple hundred acres in and around my place in the hills and I will do good to find 5 or 6. Why is that? There is just as many deer on the hilly farms.

Most likely it is differences in herd structure. My property is all hills (no flat ground) and we find an amazing number of rubs and scrapes, but those numbers have fluctuated with herd structure--the more competition between bucks for breeding rights and the older the buck population the more rubs and scrapes. In addition, in hardwoods areas, acorn crops have a strong influence on rubbing and scraping behavior. The poorer the acorn crop, the less bucks rub and scrape. No one really knows why, but it is probably an "excess resources" thing--in a great acorn year deer have more excess energy to burn than in a poor acorn year.

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

The acorns may have alot to do with it. A great portion of the Oaks have been logged.