anti jake folks

[turkeyhunter]

I have heard many good discussions about what to do for low number of turkeys. One point was to out law killing jakes. I dont like this idea. There are many reasons behind why I think like this. One of the main reasons for this , is the fact that I killed a jake on accident this season. This bird was gobbling its head off. It did not sound jakey by no means. It was blowing my hat off. When he finally came in all I could see was a big red head. He kept peeking over a small bank looking at me, finally he peeked too much and I blasted him. I was excited and ran to get my foot on him only to discover he was a jake. I was disappointed to say the least. My point is its just about impossible to identify a jake in alot of hunting situations. Plus if you research the management of turkeys, it does not matter which male you shoot. It does not help your numbers.

 

[4onaside]

Well, I've never made a "mistake" on one, primarily because I'm a field,blind hunter, and it would take a visually impaired person to do so. That said, I'd as soon kill a jake as a longbeard, well maybe that's not totally true, but I do consider them a worthy trophy. I just kill whichever gobbler that affords itself, regardless of age, which in the case of this season, were more longbeards than jakes. And I particularly like your statement about "a male is a male" from a management standpoint. I don't recall ever seeing anything from a professional that indicated any biological reason not to shoot a jake.

 

[turkeyhunter]

Lets say you own 100 acres of land. On that land there are 5 jakes and 2 long beards running around. Also 7 hens to complete the flock. The limit is 2 bearded birds per season. Will it make a difference if you shot two jakes instead of the long beards? Lets say you do shoot two jakes. And all others survive. So now we will have 5 long beards, plus 4 or 5 new jakes next season right. I dont think it makes a difference, especially with a low limit. So I guess I would lean more toward low limits verses one jake rule.

 

[Winchester]

1 jake would be fine with me as well, and I agree it lets those who would be happy with a Jake take one at will, as well as takes care of a mistake.

 

[4onaside]

I just read on another thread where 12 or 13 hundred hens were killed during the fall season! Wonder what the average size clutch is, maybe 10 eggs? And people are worried about shooting jakes??

 

[VolDoug]

Good, level-headed posts fellas.

I would much rather take a jake that knew how to play the game than a hush-mouthed 2 yr old that tried to slip in on me. It's all about the excitement of the hunt for me. And if he's gobbling his head off and can play like a big boy, then he can sure die like one too.

I have passed a TON of jakes over the years, but then I've had years where I have taken one and was thrilled to death. This year, I killed my first in several years. It was opening day, and I doubled with my dad. I had never done either, so it was special.

When I first saw them and realized they were jakes, I asked him if we were gonna kill jakes. "I am", was his response :D. He started to have a coughing spell as they were approaching, and had gotten on the ground to try to stifle it. I told him to choke it down and get ready because I wasn't taking a jake if we couldn't double. It was the only bird he killed all year, and he was tickled to death.

 

[4onaside]

Good, level-headed posts fellas.

I would much rather take a jake that knew how to play the game than a hush-mouthed 2 yr old that tried to slip in on me. It's all about the excitement of the hunt for me. And if he's gobbling his head off and can play like a big boy, then he can sure die like one too.

I have passed a TON of jakes over the years, but then I've had years where I have taken one and was thrilled to death. This year, I killed my first in several years. It was opening day, and I doubled with my dad. I had never done either, so it was special.

When I first saw them and realized they were jakes, I asked him if we were gonna kill jakes. "I am", was his response :D. He started to have a coughing spell as they were approaching, and had gotten on the ground to try to stifle it. I told him to choke it down and get ready because I wasn't taking a jake if we couldn't double. It was the only bird he killed all year, and he was tickled to death.

Your dad understood why you were out there. Wisdom that comes with age. No hesitation on his answer to your question, as in "why wouldn't we, isn't the object of a turkey hunt to kill a turkey?" No "its beneath our dignity" stuff. lol

 

[RNDeLoach]

Where I hunt I have never heard a jake gobble or even seen a jake strut because where I hunt we do not kill jakes and we have plenty of longbeards. If you let a big group of jakes just mill around they will be a big group of two year old birds the next year. Two years ago there were a group of 8 jakes. I saw them quite often. They stayed together and the next year they turned into 8 longbeards. I have never killed a jake nor will I ever kill a jake. Many people kill jakes just to add to the numbers that they have killed. A jake is like a spike to me. They dont take the best pictures and what can you actually do with a 3-6" beard. People should just let yearling birds turn into adults.

 

[VolDoug]

I have never killed a jake nor will I ever kill a jake.

Word for word quote of a fella on another website I frequent at the beginning of this season. Guess what happened :D ? Two birds came in, and in the heat of the moment, he lost track of which was which. Never say never!

BTW, what do you do with an 8" beard :confused: ?

 

[RNT]

I say if bustin a jake makes you happy, then let it rip. Sometimes it ain't all about killin a bird with huge spurs/beard.

 

[4onaside]

Where I hunt I have never heard a jake gobble or even seen a jake strut because where I hunt we do not kill jakes and we have plenty of longbeards. If you let a big group of jakes just mill around they will be a big group of two year old birds the next year. Two years ago there were a group of 8 jakes. I saw them quite often. They stayed together and the next year they turned into 8 longbeards. I have never killed a jake nor will I ever kill a jake. Many people kill jakes just to add to the numbers that they have killed. A jake is like a spike to me. They dont take the best pictures and what can you actually do with a 3-6" beard. People should just let yearling birds turn into adults.

What do you with the meat from the turkeys that you kill, throw it away? Maybe you do, with the statement "what can you actually do with a 3-6" beard". Jakes certainly eat better than 3 year old birds. That's why the chicken industry sells pullets rather than roosters.

 

[buckhorn40]

Well this was my first turkey season and I killed a 2 1/2 year old long beard. (Please no applause) :grin:

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I also had an easy shot at a jake a few weeks later and decided to pass. I share a lease with family members and our turkey population is very much Unit B ish. Having said that, if I had been on public land and competing with a gaggle of other hunters, the outcome would have been different.

 

[4onaside]

Several studies have shown that b/w 33%50% of jakes die naturally in their first year. If you add hunter kills to that % it can have a major impact.

Bottom line, if you like killing mature gobblers (longbeards), then shooting any jakes is not the best idea. But it happens, and within reason isn't the end of the world.

Bottom line for me is that I enjoy turkey hunting, and I could care less which age class a bird falls into, because I know that sooner or later during most seasons one or more of each class is likely to show up. And if not, so what.

 

[4onaside]

Congrats, but I have to ask how did you know he was 2.5 and not 2 or 3? :)

Hook, that's an easy trap to fall into when you are constantly using the half years describing whitetail ages. I was telling a buddy about my turkey season today and started the same "one half" descriptions but then caught and corrected myself.

 

[4onaside]

Where I hunt I have never heard a jake gobble or even seen a jake strut because where I hunt we do not kill jakes and we have plenty of longbeards. If you let a big group of jakes just mill around they will be a big group of two year old birds the next year. Two years ago there were a group of 8 jakes. I saw them quite often. They stayed together and the next year they turned into 8 longbeards. I have never killed a jake nor will I ever kill a jake. Many people kill jakes just to add to the numbers that they have killed. A jake is like a spike to me. They dont take the best pictures and what can you actually do with a 3-6" beard. People should just let yearling birds turn into adults.

They eat just as good as a big gobbler.I like the lb too but not gonna tell people to let them go.

Ah, but you have a live and let live mind-set, something that many of these people do not have. They don't shoot jakes, which is fine. But they cannot be content with that. They have to tell you that you shouldn't. In the world of politics they would be known as belt-way liberals aka "I know what's best for you".lol

 

[VolDoug]

I would think that if they have made it to the hunting season, their percentage of surviving would be way higher, just as a longbeards would be.

Those low mortality rates would almost have to apply to their lives from hatch-6 months or so. But, I could be wrong.

 

[VolDoug]

It may be due to that they are still alone in essence without the watchful eyes of mature birds to help alert them of danger. Who knows.

I can see that. The old "there is security in numbers" deal.

 

[RNDeLoach]

I really dont see how you can accidentally kill a jake. My father always taught me that you are supposed to see a visible beard before you shoot. The spring turkey guide also says you must see a visible beard before you shoot. If you follow that then you wont accidentally kill a jake. If it is too thick to see a beard then you probably dont need to be taking the shot. As far as what I do with the meat I generally clean it and give it to the landowners as a good gesture. They greatly appreciate that. Now I see no problem if you want to get a jake for a first time hunter. There is nothing wrong with that but hunting is not all about the numbers and how many you put on the table. I love watching jakes just feed on bugs and peck around with the hens. This is just my .02. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[spitndrum]

I shot at ones head this season and when it flew off it was a Jake judging by its fan...flying off....I was tickled I missed!! :grin:

 

[RNDeLoach]

If there is such a thing as a good miss I guess that would be one.

 

[RS]

I really dont see how you can accidentally kill a jake. My father always taught me that you are supposed to see a visible beard before you shoot. The spring turkey guide also says you must see a visible beard before you shoot. If you follow that then you wont accidentally kill a jake. If it is too thick to see a beard then you probably dont need to be taking the shot. As far as what I do with the meat I generally clean it and give it to the landowners as a good gesture. They greatly appreciate that. Now I see no problem if you want to get a jake for a first time hunter. There is nothing wrong with that but hunting is not all about the numbers and how many you put on the table. I love watching jakes just feed on bugs and peck around with the hens. This is just my .02. Different strokes for different folks.

Ditto. Shooting a jake should never be a "mistake".

I always wonder what people are thinking when they post "All I could see was his head when I shot". The regs clearly state that a bird must have a visible beard.

On more than one occasion I have observed mature gobblers (full fans and good spurs) at close range that had no visible beard. This was likely caused by beard rot. I had to let these birds walk on by.

If one of you "head shooters" kills one that doesn't have a beard, what will you do?

 

[Baxter83]

I was 100% sure about the jake I shot this year. I picked him out of four others since he was the biggest one. He was sporting a 3-7/8" beard where the rest of them might have had 2-1/2"-3". :D

 

[VolDoug]

Yep, I've never killed a jake by mistake either. They have all been on purpose :D !

I agree 100% about seeing the beard. The purpose of that regulation is safety. If you can see a turkey and its beard, that should take out the chance of an "accidental" shooting bu shooting at a color.

So does security in numbers disappear when we as hunters whack into jake groups and scatter them?

You just said they were already alone, so it shouldn't make a difference :D .

 

[turkeyhunter]

You guys can pass on a big red head gobbling if you want to. But the accident I had is one that I can live with. Later on in the season this year the very same thing happen to me, two birds gobbling like crazy. However one sounded jakey the other didnt. But when they came in they where both jakes. They got a pass. I dont hunt jakes but i dont want a law to protect them. A total of six jakes got a pass from me this season. You get a bird within 10 yards gobbling, struting, druming, and you let him pass because you cant see a beard? My best bird this year was killed in a hay field over waist high. With in 10 yards doing all the above. Thinking back , I did not see a beard. But im glad I did not give him a pass.

 

[RS]

You get a bird within 10 yards gobbling, struting, druming, and you let him pass because you cant see a beard?

Yes, twice in the the last few years as a matter of fact. That is only because they didn't have beards.

So you are say that you would have shot these birds had it been you? Would you have checked them in?

 

[turkeyhunter]

Im just saying, I really dont focus on the beard, im looking for the red head to pop , then I try to focus my sight right on the middle neck. If that happens I will tag the bird in.If I show the game warden a mature gobbler with a full fan that weighs 20lbs. And receive a ticket, I guess I will live with.

 

[RUGER]

RS thanks for bringing that up.
First thought that popped into my mind was, if a person killed a jake by accident, how did they figure it was a legal bird to begin with?

 

[4onaside]

I really dont see how you can accidentally kill a jake. My father always taught me that you are supposed to see a visible beard before you shoot. The spring turkey guide also says you must see a visible beard before you shoot. If you follow that then you wont accidentally kill a jake. If it is too thick to see a beard then you probably dont need to be taking the shot. As far as what I do with the meat I generally clean it and give it to the landowners as a good gesture. They greatly appreciate that. Now I see no problem if you want to get a jake for a first time hunter. There is nothing wrong with that but hunting is not all about the numbers and how many you put on the table. I love watching jakes just feed on bugs and peck around with the hens. This is just my .02. Different strokes for different folks.

I really dont see how you can accidentally kill a jake. My father always taught me that you are supposed to see a visible beard before you shoot. The spring turkey guide also says you must see a visible beard before you shoot. If you follow that then you wont accidentally kill a jake. If it is too thick to see a beard then you probably dont need to be taking the shot. As far as what I do with the meat I generally clean it and give it to the landowners as a good gesture. They greatly appreciate that. Now I see no problem if you want to get a jake for a first time hunter. There is nothing wrong with that but hunting is not all about the numbers and how many you put on the table. I love watching jakes just feed on bugs and peck around with the hens. This is just my .02. Different strokes for different folks.

I've never killed one "by accident" and its unlikely that I ever will due to the way that I hunt. But for a run and gun woods hunter, I can certainly understand how it could happen. After all, a gobbler looks like a gobbler regardless of its age, tall, dark and with much more red on its head than any hen, particularly in the early a.m. in thick understory at 35 yards. And I've had jakes gobble their heads off as they came in, and some would take a real expert to tell apart from longbeards(the gobble). I'm sure like many, my son and I have passed on several gobblers because we never could see a beard, even though we were certain that they were gobblers. And you do have a problem with us, as we are as far removed from being "first time hunters" as is possible. We, apparently along with thousands of other Tennessee turkey hunters enjoy turkey hunting without having to prove our prowess to anyone. My room is plastered with mature turkey fans and beards(along with some four inchers with tall tail feathers also), although some of the dumbest turkeys that I have encountered have been longbeards, and some of most challenging birds have been jakes. Hopefully someday you will recognize that the quality of the hunt has little to do with beard or spur length. Good Luck

 

[WingNut]

I don't know about you all but I never have tried to eat the beard or the spurs. I turkey hunt and a jake is considered a legal turkey to kill isn't it. Don't get me wrong I love killing long beards and I am fortunate enough to hunt an area where we can pick and choose. I passed on jakes all year but if I am going out to hunt and want to kill a jake I am. They all eat to darn good. Again its all opinion. Its the same with deer hunting. If you kill small bucks every year dont complain about not being able to kill big bucks. If you kill jakes don't complain about not having long beards to kill. Its called management.

 

[turkeyhunter]

I agree wingnut. My dad wants me to bring him a jake each season. He tells me all the time you have enough beards and spurs on the wall, kill some turkeys to eat.lol When I tell hunting stories about letting the jakes go he gets mad. I told him to go with me and I will let him shootem.