An Exercise in Aging a Particular Buck

[TheLBLman]

This pic is from 11-27-2010 of a particular Stewart Co., TN buck I was monitoring. I'd say the rut peak was about a week or so earlier than the pic, but notice he appears to be out "cruising" in the late morning.

Also notice he has only one antler. I believe he broke it off fighting another buck in late October. I also believe his having only one antler is why he survived the 2010 deer season, as he did provide multiple hunters with high-probability shots, and some were about to pull their triggers, only stopping upon realizing he "only had one antler, so I let him walk".

Not only has this particular buck played into "Wesley's High Grading Theory", but he (and a few others) have interjected much about the few above-average-antlered 1 1/2 to 3 1/2's that survive to maturity (4 1/2 and older).

Will add more to this thread later.

But for now, what would you guess his age to have been in the Fall of 2010 when this pic was taken?

 

[Andy S.]

Based on this pic, 2.5.

 

[Pine Ridge]

looks on the younger side to me 2-2.5

 

[primos32]

I would say 2 1/2

 

[W.Seay]

2.5

 

[Shed Hunter]

2.5 Would you mind telling me what exactly your theory is?

 

[TheLBLman]

2.5 Would you mind telling me what exactly your theory is?

Let me preface by saying, over the past decade or so, most areas of TN have seen a noteworthy increase in mature bucks. A multitude of factors have contributed to this, including but not limited to, changes in statewide regs and widespread QDM (both great imo). So why have we not seen a comparative increase in 150-plus-class bucks? And, could the answer to this question be much of why certain counties (like Henry County) have such a relative poor showing when it comes to producing 150-plus-class bucks? (Am picking on Henry Co. because it is usually near the top in annual deer harvests, great soils, lots of agriculture, and may have had more deer harvested in it than any other TN county over the past 50 years.)

"Wesley's High Grading Theory" is that those particular bucks surviving to maturity (in most of TN where hunting is moderate to heavy) are mainly those with below average antlers when they were 1 1/2 to 3 1/2 years of age. These particular bucks would always be expected to have smaller than average antlers for whatever age they might survive. And they are, on average, the bucks that most modern-day deer hunters have no desire to kill. Not to say many hunters wouldn't consider these bucks great trophies once they reach maturity, but rather to say it's mainly those with sub-trophy antlers when younger, that live to be older.

Those bucks 1 1/2 to 3 1/2 with above average antlers are killed off (by human hunters) at a much higher rate, meaning relatively few of the "above average" bucks are among those bucks surviving to 4 1/2 and older. Should you notice most of the harvested 4 1/2 and older bucks are scoring LESS than most of the 3 1/2's, you probably are experiencing a high level of "antler high grading" of the best 3 1/2 & younger bucks in your hunting area.

This "antler high grading" is probably made much worse by most of the "reasonable" antler restrictions that are used by some WMA's and hunting clubs. While antler restrictions typically allow for a lot more bucks to live another year or two older, they shift the kill more onto the largest antlered of the younger bucks, which can be killed off at a much higher rate than would have occurred had the hunters not been under any antler restrictions at all.

The bottom line becomes this:

We may have had more 150-class-plus "older" bucks in TN several years ago than we have now, even though we have many times more mature bucks today. In the past, bucks were killed more randomly, whereby it's possible more of the above averaged antlered younger bucks were included in those that survived to 4 1/2 or older. But today, those smaller antlered ones are repeatedly passed up by many different hunters, as each hunter "holds out" for something better, with the hunters collectively often just killing off the very best top-end yearling and 2 1/2-yr old bucks in the hunting area. That leaves only the smallest antlered ones to become "older".

IMO, the only way to mostly eliminate this high-grading issue would be to kill no bucks younger than 4 1/2. This would not be practical for most hunters, but perhaps a growing number are seeing the benefits (assuming their goal is to take more larger antlered older bucks).

 

[TheLBLman]

Let me also state that this antler high grading has been an issue with the modern-day deer hunters all along. It's not anything new, but may be becoming a greater factor, as more of the hunter harvests are shifting away from just "any" buck to only those bucks with "larger" antlers (most of which are 2 1/2 years old when killed).

Most hunters consider a 6-point yearling to be a better "trophy" than a spike yearling. Consequently, many hunters began voluntarily passing up spike bucks. As hunters (collectively) killed more 6 to 8-pt yearlings, they started holding out more for a "nice" 2 1/2-yr-old buck, or ANY buck with 8 or more points. Problem was, the bucks with the greatest genetic make-up for growing high-scoring antlers would commonly have 8 points as yearling bucks. The end result quickly became (with those "4 on a side" and/or "8 points or better" antler restrictions) that the very best yearlings were near 100% killed off. Yet in times past, ANY that survived was more than the "near none" experienced with these "reasonable" antler restrictions.

Similar can be said for an antler spread rule such as "15 inches", although imo, there is much less high-grading with spread rule restrictions. The very worst antler restriction (regarding this high-grading) may be "9 or more points", although "3 on a side" can slaughter the above average yearlings.

That said, sometimes antler restrictions can do more good than harm, but they may not be benefiting hunters as much as many believe. Most antler restrictions have basically just shifted the buck harvest more from yearling bucks to 2 1/2-yr-old bucks, which automatically insures that more survive to 3 1/2 and older. At issue, is which particular bucks do this surviving to 4 1/2 and older?

 

[Shed Hunter]

Very interesting Wes. Quite logical as well.

 

[Diehard Hunter]

Do a little research on the results of Mississippi's antler restrictions and you will find exactly what you have "theorized". There are more mature bucks with their antler restrictions, but they are smaller than the mature bucks they were killing before the antler restrictions.

 

[TheLBLman]

Do a little research on the results of Mississippi's antler restrictions and you will find exactly what you have "theorized". There are more mature bucks with their antler restrictions, but they are smaller than the mature bucks they were killing before the antler restrictions.

Have read.

Unfortunately, we're seeing these results all across Tennessee in places that don't have any antler restrictions. My "theory" is that this antler high grading is happening in most places, just worse where there is antler restrictions.

So how old does that buck in the above pic look to you?

 

[catman529]

he looks 2.5 to my inexperienced eyes. If he were mature I'd have shot him with one antler.... did that this year, don't regret it.

 

[Shed Hunter]

I'm dying to know how old this deer is.. everything about it says 2.5 but I feel like Wes is tricking us somehow!

 

[TheLBLman]

. . . . . but I feel like Wes is tricking us somehow!

Not at all.
Just sharing some of my experiences (and frustrations!) with a few bucks.

 

[156p&y]

Wes I would think high grading would happen anywhere regardless, but some areas the effects would be more intense simply based upon hunters lack of knowledge in aging an animal or even caring to age an animal. The rack is usually the first thing a hunter looks at before he decides to harvest an animal if they are hunting a buck. Most hunters unless trained from the beginning of their hunting career would have to reverse the process their mind goes through at decision time to eliminate high grading all together.

 

[TheLBLman]

The rack is usually the first thing a hunter looks at before he decides to harvest an animal if they are hunting a buck.

I agree, and many hunters, just as they wouldn't kill a spike buck or a small antlered one, will also quickly rule out killing a buck with only one antler.

Actually meant for the antler high grading to be more a side issue on this thread, just noting that this buck survived a barrage of hunters because he only had one antler. Very unlikely he would have survived November 2010 had he not broken off his antler in October.

So how old does he look to you? Do you think there's any possibility he was a very top-end yearling in 2010?
What is it BSK says, "A yearling buck looks like a doe with antlers."?

And as another sidebar . . . . . .
Back in the day when I was more focused on antlers than age,
I killed a "nice" 8-pointer with a 16-inch spread. Turned out to be only a yearling buck. Have often wondered what that one would have looked like had he lived to 4 1/2 or older.

 

[Andy S.]

What is it BSK says, "A yearling buck looks like a doe with antlers."?

I agree with this, however, I cannot remember a doe that I've seen or killed that had a neck the size of the buck above. Not that it is big by any means, just bigger than the skinny necks that I'm used to seeing on does.

 

[TheLBLman]

Andy, again, just sharing some of my experiences (and frustrations!) with a few bucks!

 

[Andy S.]

I totally understand and agree with you, like I always have. Just as 156 pointed out above, most deer hunters would have to retrain their brains to focus on other external characteristics of the buck in the heat of the moment. This is something I do not think will ever happen with the majority of every day deer hunters, which is ok, and something I've came to accept.

 

[spoon]

I believe it's a 2-1/2, front end is too big for a yearling

 

[hunter drew]

When I'm in Ohio. I started shooting any buck that's 4.5 and older. Now for me to shoot him I would want both sides. In Tn I shoot 3.5 and older. I have passed up a 4.5 one time and he was a beast. But he only had one side of his rack. So yes I know what your saying



I would think that buck in the pic is 2.5

 

[RUGER]

Going by that picture the deer looks to be a 2 year old to me.

 

[Football Hunter]

2.5 to me,yeah,he would get a pass from me too.with one horn.at any age

 

[BSK]

Classic 2 1/2 year-old.

To add to Wes' high-grading theory, with more and more hunters/managers running trail-cameras over a number of years, more picture sets are available of individual bucks over their lifetimes, and although nothing about antler growth over a lifetime is guaranteed, I'm noticing that most very large-antlered mature bucks started out as large-antlered 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 year-old bucks. If hunters kill the largest-antlered 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 year-old bucks, they are removing the very bucks that have the highest odds of being spectacular bucks at maturity.

 

[Bayou Buck]

Looks 2.5 to me.

 

[Mike Belt]

I'd also have to say 2.5 years old. I agree with everything you've said but I don't see a remedy. I don't think that the majority of hunters give a flip about how old a buck is when they shoot him or even learning to age a deer on the hoof. The only way that will change is if there's some type of restriction placed on bucks forcing them to have to start learning and I don't know what that might be???? Maybe some type of earn a buck tag whereby the state limit is 2 bucks but if either of your 2 are 4.5+ you get a third tag. I doubt anything like that would ever happen.

I also have to admit I'm guilty as charged. I look at a buck's rack first because no matter what age he is I don't shoot if I'm not impressed with the size. Given the time I then try to determine his age. If his rack is my borderline shooter I really try to scrutinize his age. In the last several years I haven't shot but 2 bucks and 1 of those was shot on age accessment. I've passed on several because they only had 1 side but if they'd have had both matching sides a few of them would have hit the ground. I've passed alot of bucks that were 4.5+ simply because they didn't have the headgear I wanted.

 

[BSK]

I agree Mike, I doubt there is a solution, except for those managing large properties where mature bucks with large antlers is the goal. In those situations, the hunters will have to learn to specifically protect the largest antlered 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 year-old bucks.

 

[Mike Belt]

At Ames the original goal was to advance buck age structure. We've done that and have a good percentage of mature bucks in our herd. Even with a select group of hunters I believe that quite a few of them see impressive headgear and shoot away hoping that the deer will measure legal minimum and never give age a second thought. Quite a few of our deer don't meet minimum size restrictions but do meet the "or 4.5 years old or older" requirement so they simply luck out on a legal buck. I'm betting in the last 4 years not over 3 bucks were shot based on age.

 

[BSK]

...quite a few of them see impressive headgear and shoot away hoping that the deer will measure legal minimum and never give age a second thought. Quite a few of our deer don't meet minimum size restrictions but do meet the "or 4.5 years old or older" requirement so they simply luck out on a legal buck. I'm betting in the last 4 years not over 3 bucks were shot based on age.

Interesting observations Mike.

 

[BSK]

Normally, I don't add to local high-grading because I will shoot any buck 3 1/2 or older, no matter his antler size (or even whether he has both antlers intact).

However, this year we were major contributors to antler high-grading!