Alabama leading the way

[hbg1]

Most of you are missing the point. It is not ONLY about what is killed (numbers), especially with dominant male turkeys that have been pre-selected to do most of the breeding early season, it is WHEN they are killed. Bottom line for me, I want as many older dominant turkeys to survive the first two weeks of season as possible, especially if they are courting a harem of hens. I want all of the hens to be bred before we blast them. The best of the best turkey hunters can rarely touch them the first few weeks if they have hens, but plop a strutter decoy in their line of sight and they will walk right into the trap. It's in their DNA to protect their territory and hens, at all costs. They have been doing just that for weeks leading up to season opener without any harm, because us hunters have not been there to take advantage of them. There have been hundreds, if not thousands of videos documenting this behavior over the last decade. If some of you truly have not witnessed it, you have not been looking very hard.

I purchased a full strut decoy roughly 10 years ago, for the next two years I must have set that decoy up a thousand times in various scenarios, never once, repeat, never once did I get a gobbler to come to that decoy. That decoy sets in the attic of my shop covered as a reminder of the wasted money.

 

[Setterman]

I've rarely ever found any bird to be predictable, if he was he was predictably hard to kill, which by the way are some of my favorite birds to hunt.

second point, in my area very very few birds are in the fields the opening weekend of season, it's usually later when the grass grows a little thicker and bugs are more prevalent before they move into the fields. With that said I've seen years where birds just never seemed to use fields much at all.

third point, I've ruined more hunts using decoys than I have without. I rarely ever use a decoy, period. With this said I am not opposed to decoys in the least.

fourth point, we all want more turkeys, to accomplish this reduce the bag limit, simple as that.

What I think you're missing because you're only looking at your own personal experiences. Which is totally understandable. Andy sums it up very well in his post above.

let's say the limit drops to 2 or even 1, yet each opening weekend thousands of dominant birds, the predominant breeders get killed. The overall limit doesn't really matter, does it?

choices are going to have to be made if we want our hunting to return as a whole To where it was. Tough choices, but if this trajectory continues we may be looking at 2 week long seasons and similar awful scenarios.

Eliminating a super lethal tactic, could mean more birds, more gobbling and more days to hunt. To me that's sounds like a great solution.

 

[megalomaniac]

Wyoming is pushing back seasoner opening as well in 4 out of 5 hunt areas to allow toms to breed hens before they are killed.

New spring season dates for most wild turkey hunt areas | Wyoming Game & Fish Department

There’s a new opening date for Wyoming’s spring turkey season. Hunters should plan for an April 20 opener in four of the state’s five hunt areas. The Wyoming Game and Fish Commission made this change to align more appropriately the bird’s biology, simplify regulations and increase hunter...

wgfd.wyo.gov

 

[Setterman]

I purchased a full strut decoy roughly 10 years ago, for the next two years I must have set that decoy up a thousand times in various scenarios, never once, repeat, never once did I get a gobbler to come to that decoy. That decoy sets in the attic of my shop covered as a reminder of the wasted money.

Take a few minutes and visit youtube to see unlimited birds dropping to those decoys. Heck look at the videos the dude from KY has posted here recently, every single one of those birds is killed over decoys and would still be alive if it weren't for them. Just scroll down the main page. Shelve your personal experience as it's not representative

 

[poorhunter]

I have used decoys twice. A buddy of mine from college came and hunted with me down here in Tennessee, brought back memories from almost 30 years ago. Anyway he brought a strutter so we used it one late morning and once at first light. Both times we doubled in less than 15 minutes on field birds. I've hunted a lot of field birds but killed very very few of them while they were in the field like this. I have zero doubt decoys make a huge difference in that limited experience. We did nothing but stick a decoy I the ground and sit down. No calling, no sweating, no strategy and no sport. But we did kill four birds.

 

[megalomaniac]

Let's be realistic. Throughout the US during turkey restoration, the 'biologists' screwed up and set opening dates too early. Guess what, that screw up was masked by how inefficient we as hunters were at actually killing turkeys, especially those henned up dominant males. Everything was fine, populations could increase despite the biologists violating the single most important tenent of turkey management‐ don't open season on males until AFTER they have bred the hens.

Fast forward 20 years, now any joe blow FB hero is a turkey killing machine. Reaping, corn slinging, TSS shooting at 80 yards, TSS shooting and 'missing' at 80 yards (and that bird ofc dies later, and the 'hunter' gets to do it all over again since a cripple loss doesn't count against bag limit). It is no wonder turkey populations are falling in 75% of their ranges throughout the US.

You just cannot violate the most basic premise of turkey management‐ 'don't open season before the hens are bred' and expect to get away with it. Now the lack of poults are coming home to roost.

 

[Setterman]

Let's be realistic. Throughout the US during turkey restoration, the 'biologists' screwed up and set opening dates too early. Guess what, that screw up was masked by how inefficient we as hunters were at actually killing turkeys, especially those henned up dominant males. Everything was fine, populations could increase despite the biologists violating the single most important tenent of turkey management‐ don't open season on males until AFTER they have bred the hens.

Fast forward 20 years, now any joe blow FB hero is a turkey killing machine. Reaping, corn slinging, TSS shooting at 80 yards, TSS shooting and 'missing' at 80 yards (and that bird ofc dies later, and the 'hunter' gets to do it all over again since a cripple loss doesn't count against bag limit). It is no wonder turkey populations are falling in 75% of their ranges throughout the US.

You just cannot violate the most basic premise of turkey management‐ 'don't open season before the hens are bred' and expect to get away with it. Now the lack of poults are coming home to roost.

Well said

 

[Andy S.]

I purchased a full strut decoy roughly 10 years ago, for the next two years I must have set that decoy up a thousand times in various scenarios, never once, repeat, never once did I get a gobbler to come to that decoy. That decoy sets in the attic of my shop covered as a reminder of the wasted money.

Keep it real, how many time did you really set it up? A thousand is unrealistic and I do not see you doing the same thing over and over and over and over and expecting a different outcome. I do not know you but feel like you are smarter than that. What decoy? What scenarios were you using it in? What time of the season? Were there any dominant birds in the area to see it and charge it?

 

[Johnathon]

I've never hunted CNF, but do hunt the public mountain lands along the KY border. Our populations are just fine, they've dipped a little but are really in pretty good shape. I worry about the entire flock here, Bama, GA, KY as I hunt it all and want the numbers where they were.

I don't disagree on the bait pile killers. It's always an issue and a big one, but it's illegal now and always has been. So I'm not sure how that can be managed.

I am always skeptical of trail cam pics posted this time of year as turkeys aren't easy to capture unless something draws them to a spot

The bait pile hunters are definitely being targeted by the twra by all means available. I have witnessed this a couple of times and haven't been turkey hunting but 3 years on public land in tennessee. The very first gobbler I shot on public land was inspected for corn in it by the gm and he was in a hurry to get to a bait site Last year they used aircraft to mark bait sites and used trail cams to keep tabs on them. There's no way I would even consider putting any bait out for turkey

 

[deerfever]

Making decoys and fans illegal would save numerous birds in my opinion. I think what Alabama did is more realistic as a starting point( first 10 days) that the TN commission might consider passing. This saves some Gobblers early and probably keeps some hunters at home until they can break out their new strutter decoy after the first two weekends of season. Again saving turkeys from this method. Alabama pushing season back is only to March 25, they open now March 20 so it's just 5 days, they also went from a limit of 5 to 4. I am a proponent of taking decoys away , no Jakes(possibly allow on juvenile hunts) and certainly no hens in the fall or any point. I am not big on moving the season , however if they simply said juvenile is the first weekend in April and state wide season opens the 2nd Saturday in April it would not be a problem at all for me to accept. I think the 3 bird limit is fine as remember it was 4 just last season so they already dropped it. Notice what I said above it's probably more realistic to do what Alabama did and give some on the decoy thing in order for it to have a chance to pass . Alabama had to compromise to get what they passed done. I am guessing TN would be no different!

 

[PalsPal]

Lol. Same tune, different year.

You guys are wasting precious keystrokes. It's their way or no way!

Just hunt legally the way that makes YOU happy! You don't need anyone else's approval.

I would advise some who get bent out of shape to stay away from YouTube and Facebook. I don't think it's good for your health!

 

[Andy S.]

I would advise some who get bent out of shape to stay away from YouTube and Facebook. I don't think it's good for your health!

......and sporting good stores, and check stations, and feed stores, and ball fields. I can spot a strutter decoy in/out a bag from a mile away. I wish more new hunters and struggling hunters had the drive to learn woodsmanship and calling them to the gun. As previously stated, our society as a whole has an affinity with instant gratification and success, and will gladly take the easiest path forward, regardless of the outcome or the second order effects. Use your strutter to shoot a turkey (hopefully not the dominant bird in the area) so the monkey is off your back, and you have some meat, then give it a go at locating one on the roost, listening, listening some more, approaching him slowly, picking a good setup that is in the hunters advantage, calling him to the gun or trying to call him to the gun. Learn to love failing when trying to beat them at their own game. If a newbie wanted to use a decoy akin to a tee starting out in tee ball, then so be it, but to think that is turkey "hunting" and the way forward disgusts so many who hunt them traditionally and learned the hard way. I am not telling anyone how to hunt, just asking for many to open their eyes and see there is a more rewarding way, but it takes time, sweat, effort, patience, patience, more patience and getting used to losing far more than you win. Those wins are worth their weight in goal when they happen.

 

[Setterman]

......and sporting good stores, and check stations, and feed stores, and ball fields. I can spot a strutter decoy in/out a bag from a mile away. I wish more new hunters and struggling hunters had the drive to learn woodsmanship and calling them to the gun. As previously stated, our society as a whole has an affinity with instant gratification and success, and will gladly take the easiest path forward, regardless of the outcome or the second order effects. Use your strutter to shoot a turkey (hopefully not the dominant bird in the area) so the monkey is off your back, and you have some meat, then give it a go at locating one on the roost, listening, listening some more, approaching him slowly, picking a good setup that is in the hunters advantage, calling him to the gun or trying to call him to the gun. Learn to love failing when trying to beat them at their own game. If a newbie wanted to use a decoy akin to a tee starting out in tee ball, then so be it, but to think that is turkey "hunting" and the way forward disgusts so many who hunt them traditionally and learned the hard way. I am not telling anyone how to hunt, just asking for many to open their eyes and see there is a more rewarding way, but it takes time, sweat, effort, patience, patience, more patience and getting used to losing far more than you win. Those wins are worth their weight in goal when they happen.

Yep, yes, and agreed

 

[hbg1]

......and sporting good stores, and check stations, and feed stores, and ball fields. I can spot a strutter decoy in/out a bag from a mile away. I wish more new hunters and struggling hunters had the drive to learn woodsmanship and calling them to the gun. As previously stated, our society as a whole has an affinity with instant gratification and success, and will gladly take the easiest path forward, regardless of the outcome or the second order effects. Use your strutter to shoot a turkey (hopefully not the dominant bird in the area) so the monkey is off your back, and you have some meat, then give it a go at locating one on the roost, listening, listening some more, approaching him slowly, picking a good setup that is in the hunters advantage, calling him to the gun or trying to call him to the gun. Learn to love failing when trying to beat them at their own game. If a newbie wanted to use a decoy akin to a tee starting out in tee ball, then so be it, but to think that is turkey "hunting" and the way forward disgusts so many who hunt them traditionally and learned the hard way. I am not telling anyone how to hunt, just asking for many to open their eyes and see there is a more rewarding way, but it takes time, sweat, effort, patience, patience, more patience and getting used to losing far more than you win. Those wins are worth their weight in goal when they happen.

I absolutely 100% agree and the way you speak of is the exact way I hunt, the failures are what keeps me coming back. With that said, it is not my prerogative to say my way is the correct way or best way. If other folks use decoys to harvest turkeys and they don't exceed the state mandated bag limit have at it. If the folks with the Twra and game commission want to increase the numbers of birds change the bag limit. Less birds killed means more birds next year unless other circumstances interfere(flooding as an example)

 

[hbg1]

Reminds me of what one of the people I considered a mentor told me once. When crossbows were first legalized he bought one and started hunting with it. I told him crossbows were for women and children. Without hesitation he said if they make it legal to use hand grenades I will start using them too. The fellow I speak of was one of the best woodsmen I ever met and he hunted for the joy of it, often sitting in the tree tops(literally 45 feet up) on all day sits trying to harvest a specific mature buck that he had targeted. His body succumbed to the wiles of cancer a few years ago, may God rest his soul.

 

[flyinpro]

Think using Turkey decoys is not comparable to using Duck decoys imho

 

[JCDEERMAN]

Most of you are missing the point. It is not ONLY about what is killed (numbers), especially with dominant male turkeys that have been pre-selected to do most of the breeding early season, it is WHEN they are killed. Bottom line for me, I want as many older dominant turkeys to survive the first two weeks of season as possible, especially if they are courting a harem of hens. I want all of the hens to be bred before we blast them. The best of the best turkey hunters can rarely touch them the first few weeks if they have hens, but plop a strutter decoy in their line of sight and they will walk right into the trap. It's in their DNA to protect their territory and hens, at all costs. They have been doing just that for weeks leading up to season opener without any harm, because us hunters have not been there to take advantage of them. There have been hundreds, if not thousands of videos documenting this behavior over the last decade. If some of you truly have not witnessed it, you have not been looking very hard.

Great post, Andy.

 

[tbadon]

I've rarely ever found any bird to be predictable, if he was he was predictably hard to kill, which by the way are some of my favorite birds to hunt.

second point, in my area very very few birds are in the fields the opening weekend of season, it's usually later when the grass grows a little thicker and bugs are more prevalent before they move into the fields. With that said I've seen years where birds just never seemed to use fields much at all.

third point, I've ruined more hunts using decoys than I have without. I rarely ever use a decoy, period. With this said I am not opposed to decoys in the least.

fourth point, we all want more turkeys, to accomplish this reduce the bag limit, simple as that.

Spot on.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

Let's be realistic. Throughout the US during turkey restoration, the 'biologists' screwed up and set opening dates too early. Guess what, that screw up was masked by how inefficient we as hunters were at actually killing turkeys, especially those henned up dominant males. Everything was fine, populations could increase despite the biologists violating the single most important tenent of turkey management‐ don't open season on males until AFTER they have bred the hens.

Fast forward 20 years, now any joe blow FB hero is a turkey killing machine. Reaping, corn slinging, TSS shooting at 80 yards, TSS shooting and 'missing' at 80 yards (and that bird ofc dies later, and the 'hunter' gets to do it all over again since a cripple loss doesn't count against bag limit). It is no wonder turkey populations are falling in 75% of their ranges throughout the US.

You just cannot violate the most basic premise of turkey management‐ 'don't open season before the hens are bred' and expect to get away with it. Now the lack of poults are coming home to roost.

 

[poorhunter]

I don't know how many times in the last 5 years I've heard "if I couldn't use decoys or corn I'd never kill a turkey. It's nigh impossible to get one in range without them." In talking with non-hunting friends they "don't know anybody that doesn't use them". It's rampant