Advice to a New Muzzleloader Hunter

[Bull_TN]

I am an experienced archery and rifle hunter, but I haven't gotten into muzzleloaders before. I know little about them beyond how they operate, but after watching a very nice buck fade into the darkness in the 60-70 yard range last Friday evening, I am ready to get a longer reaching weapon in my hand sooner than rifle season. Could someone point me in the right direction? I'm looking for a book or online resource to learn a few things:

1.) What are the pro's and con's of pellets verses granular powder?
2.) What are the most trusted brands? (I am willing to invest in quality rather than a "beginners" or "entry level" firearm)
3.) What is a good book/video/forum to get started shooting safely?

Thanks for the help!

 

[GMB54]

Question one was just covered
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=379256

Question 2 is more complicated. I never suggest a highend ML to a beginner. Many lose interest and take a beating on resale or simply do not take care of them well enough.

So my answer to #2 is always the same.....CVA Optima V2 in Stainless or Nitride over stainless. $260-$340 plus a Blackhorn209 compatible breach plug. Not a entry level rifle but it wont break the bank. Comes with a Durasight scope mount or open sights.....Avoid Traditions no matter how good the deal. They offer nothing in stainless steel.

After you get your feet good and wet you wont lose much if you sell/upgrade. Its a good little rifle. The next step up is gunna set you back over $400 and probably over $500. Save your extra cash and get a nicer scope for the Optima instead.

 

[Bull_TN]

I wont be selling this. I don't mind spending $500 for the gun and getting a nice scope. I like running Vortex scopes. Any recommendations on the scope would be helpful too. I was thinking something along the lines of a Viper 2.5-10x44 with a BDC. What's a reasonable distance to expect to maintain accuracy, 100 yards?

 

[GMB54]

You can get a Viper HD LH for under $500 on Amazon. Its got better glass than many Vipers and its a lighter scope.
https://www.amazon.com/Vortex-Optics-Ra ... UBLX0?th=1

Look at the CVA Accura Plains Rifle. Not as heavy as the LR series and just a little nicer overall. They can be found for under $500 especially during the off/after season. The Accura MR if you want less weight and virtually the same rifle with a shorter barrel. These are CVA's top end break actions and pretty simple to maintain. You dont really give up that much by choosing the Optima V2 Nitride instead. You save $100+ but give up an adjustable trigger and soft touch stock. Most find the trigger is just fine so its not an issue. Its a very acceptable 6.65lbs roughly and a 26" barrel

This is about $340 online in camo.
[youtube]LOL0dy_j9sQ[/youtube]

 

[Jcalder]

If you have a bigger budget and are familiar with with reloading I would strongly consider a smokeless conversion from a cva 45-70.


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[MickThompson]

I put more of a premium on what does the killing- the bullet and powder, than the tube holding it. Start with Barnes and blackhorn209 and go from there. Use shotgun primers, not the muzzleloader ones. Thats probably because I have less than $100 in my muzzleloader and scope but have made kills out to 135 yards or so with it. If I was going to upgrade my scope, it would probably be vortex for me.

 

[whwood21]

I agree with the above statement about the bullet and powder making a difference....so long as they play friendly with your barrel which is found through some researching and mostly testing. I shoot a budget Thompson Center Impact .50 cal that has spectacular reviews and a wonderful barrel. I believe the CVA's are just as good though. Only reason I went with the impact was the price tag....$185 out the door. Shoots great and is extremely accurate even with iron sights. I feel comfortable on 75 yard shots even with irons.

 

[whwood21]

Oh yea, check out Chuck Hawks https://www.chuckhawks.com/index2h.muzzleloader.htm

 

[ROVERBOY]

I put more of a premium on what does the killing- the bullet and powder, than the tube holding it. Start with Barnes and blackhorn209 and go from there. Use shotgun primers, not the muzzleloader ones. Thats probably because I have less than $100 in my muzzleloader and scope but have made kills out to 135 yards or so with it. If I was going to upgrade my scope, it would probably be vortex for me.

I'm glad theres somebody else on here with a cheap muzzleloader setup. I've got a CVA Staghorn that I bought new in 2000 and have about $125 in rifle, scope, rings. I made a longer shot than I estimated with it about 15 years ago.

 

[fairchaser]

I wont be selling this. I don't mind spending $500 for the gun and getting a nice scope. I like running Vortex scopes. Any recommendations on the scope would be helpful too. I was thinking something along the lines of a Viper 2.5-10x44 with a BDC. What's a reasonable distance to expect to maintain accuracy, 100 yards?

You could save yourself a lot of trouble and just go with a smokeless ML. You'll spend more on the front end but, you'll probably end up there eventually anyway. I bought a converted CVA 45-70 Apex with a decent Nikon BDC scope for about $850. Then you'll have a 200-300 yard gun.

 

[X-Tennessean]

A lot of good replies and some very knowledgeable folks here to get you going!
I second the CVA rifles, great guns in a very affordable package. Stainless/nickel is sound advice as well....so much easier to maintain although they are not fool proof, you still have to do your part on cleaning and maintenance.

Me personally, I prefer Blackhorn 209 over pellets. I found to much inconsistency with the pellets not to mention with granules you can "fine" tune what your particular rifle likes by measuring out in weight or volume which is the fun part of it!!

Hit up your local dealer and hopefully they carry more than one flavor, handle them and see what fits you the best with some of the features mentioned above. Holler back and I am sure someone here will have the same setup and get you a recipe of what works good for them that will save you some time and money when it comes to load/bullet combination then hit the range!!

My number 1 advice I like to give to anyone just starting in black powder.....don't assume just because you pull the trigger it is going to go BOOM every time. It is a less common occurrence with today's technology but trust me it still does happen, actually cost me a good buck last year and I am very meticulous when it comes to muzzle loading. Still have not figured out what went wrong other than I did not run enough dry patches after cleaning from hunting in the rain the day prior. I even fired two fouling primers before reloading for the morning hunt. It went off but with a delay and the bullet hitting the ground about 35 yards out!!

Good luck and have fun, smoke pole is my favorite time of deer season!

 

[Grill-n-man]

#1 pellets are more user friendly and simple but are not as consistent load to load as loose nor do pellets allow you to tweak your load as loose will let you. Blackhorn 209, IMO, is more stable, gets a better burn with more consistency from one load to the next, cleaner, and cleans up way easier

#2 Knight, CVA, and Thompson Center are the biggest and most widely seen/used. All 3 make good entry level up to one for those looking for the best out there. I have owned and shot guns from all 3 brands and I prefer the Knights by far over the others. Some of the Knights will run up there in price but if your looking for as close to custom in factory production as you can get then Knight is the way to go especially since they are made right here in Tennessee.

#3 Youtube anything you want to know. 100s of videos on there that will show you anything you want to know. There is probably some one there that will have the specific gun your looking at or the from the manufactures. Getting started safely is easy especially if your not new to guns. With a little effort and time on your part muzzleloaders are safe, reliable, and accurate. Biggest unsafe action involving muzzleloaders is over charging one from either not paying attention during the loading process or not fully understanding max loads for gun and the powder your using

 

[MickThompson]

If you go with BH209 as many have recommended, start load testing around 90-95 grains by volume. That's he sweet spot with a lot of guns and kills them plenty dead if you do your part.

 

[GMB54]

#2 Knight, CVA, and Thompson Center are the biggest and most widely seen/used. All 3 make good entry level up to one for those looking for the best out there. I have owned and shot guns from all 3 brands and I prefer the Knights by far over the others. Some of the Knights will run up there in price but if your looking for as close to custom in factory production as you can get then Knight is the way to go especially since they are made right here in Tennessee.

Most of mine are actually Knights. I also have a NULA 50cal and Savage 45cal custom build. Older and newer 45cal 1-20 twist Knights are really really nice rifles with just some minor tweaks. Excellent rifles for a veteran but maybe not the best choice for a novice. Top end models are pushing $900+ with some over $1000.

I think the Knight Extreme might still be on sale for $500 and all it needs is the Lehigh bare primer conversion from Lehigh Defense. Very nice setup if you want a bolt action style rifle and great BH209 compatibility. These are really nice rifles but i highly suggest getting the bare primer conversion from Lehigh. The red DISCs are sort of a pain in the butt.

https://www.muzzleloaders.com/product-c ... zleloader/

 

[Bull_TN]

After researching a bit, I am interested in smokeless. The main reason is, from what I'm reading, the black powders corrode the gun barrel and burn less efficiently. Am I missing something? Why would you choose the corrosive black powder over the cleaner burning smokeless? Again, I am about a week into reading up on muzzleloaders, so please keep that in mind. Thanks for all the responses so far. Very helpful.

 

[GMB54]

Just remember that smokeless is not very forgiving if you double load. Otherwise its great and powder is very cheap per shot. A CVA Hunter can be found for under $300 and conversion for as little as $200. Speed will stomp virtually all smokers for right at $500.

Rem700 conversions will offer a higher level of performance but will also cost much more to build.

 

[SKFOOTER]

If you're worried about corrosiveness just use Blackhorn 209 powder.

 

[GMB54]

Blackhorn fouling is still corrosive but much much less than any other sub.

The huge difference is in cost per shot and with a non smoker you can sight in weeks in advance and leave the bore dirty. There are loads in the 35gr range that will beat any approved BH209 load in speed. More commonly used powders will be using more like 56-60gr but they cost much less than BH209 and will yield way more speed. You would have to burn huge loads of BH209 in a custom build to get close to what 58gr of a true non corrosive powder will achieve.

If you wanted a turn key BH209 rig that can handle large loads. Contact Arrowhead Sporting goods. He has the new Paramount with his improved LRMP system already installed for around $1250. You should be able to hit 2300fps shooting a 275gr bullet without a problem.
https://www.arrowheadrifles.com/product/paramount/

 

[Bull_TN]

I ran out of time, and ended up buying a CVA Accura with iron sights last Saturday. I plan to add a scope later, but I wouldn't have time to get it sighted in before this Saturday (opening day). I found a new (to me anyway) powder called "White Hot Pellets". The guys at the sporting goods store spoke highly of them, and I noticed the guys from CVA in the instructional video used them too. One last question, does anyone bother breaking in a muzzleloader barrel? If the bullet is riding in a sabot, their is no metal to metal contact. I don't see a need for breaking in the barrel, but let me know if I'm missing something. Thanks to everyone for the advice.

 

[GMB54]

Just scrub the snot out of the bore first. When they ship them suckers over from Spain they put a pretty strong corrosion inhibitor in them. Make sure the bore is spotless before shooting it.

There is nothing great about WhiteHots. They are actually slower than Triple7 so choose your bullet accordingly. Cheap old 45cal 250gr XTP should be fine in a Harvester Smooth black sabot.