A small dose of reality

[scn]

For all of the hunters that haven't been hunting the seasonal draw blind areas and are slobbering at the thought of having the chance to hunt these duck meccas, I really hope you will take time to actually research and see what you are getting into before you waste your time and money making a long drive. Yes, in past decades, several of these areas and blinds killed a BUNCH of ducks. But, over the past several years, many, if not most, were a total waste of time for the permit holders if you were talking about the number of ducks killed.

I've never been drawn for a blind in over 30 years of attending blind drawings. But, I have had the opportunity to sign on a couple of blinds. I actually killed a handful one year on Old Hickory. But, in recent years, it wasn't even worth buying the duck stamp to make the drive west to a blind I had supplied time and decoys toward, even though I had a slot waiting on me. On the last blind, a top 5 pick for that area, I was told many years ago it averaged around 400 ducks over the 60 day season. The year my group had it, I think there were less than 50 killed over the sixty days. For you math wizards, yes, that is less than killing a duck a day. And, before some of you diss on the calling and shooting skills of the group, I can assure you that wasn't the case. If there are no ducks in the air, it doesn't matter how great you are! While the food and company can be awesome, the opportunity to kill some ducks is rarely there. And, unfortunately, that is the REALITY on a lot of these areas even for the "good" blinds. Many of the blinds on these areas are gar holes where hunters park hoping for a chance to hop to one of the duck a day blinds. They will still be gar holes when they are hunted for 3-7 days out of a boat.

And, it isn't just the state run WMAS that are sucking. I have multiple friends that pay major dollars for private holes from TN up to IL. While there may be a couple of days they kill a limit on these PRIVATE leases with much less pressure, on the vast majority of days they are lucky to scratch out a couple of ducks. So, for every one of the great grip and grin pics you see on Faceplant of a rat killing day, realize there are a bunch more where they don't even fire a shot. I've been told by several that they would NEVER want to discuss the cost per duck from their lease with their wives!

Until we get a change in the weather patterns where we actually see a lot of the states north of us freezing up and snow covering the food again, our duck hunting is going to continue to suck. It doesn't matter how many ducks are in the fall flight if they never make it down to TN during the season. So, if you are up for the time and travel expenses to stare at largely an empty sky, then, I wish you well. I'm just lucky it doesn't eat at me like it did when I was crazy enough to drive 30 hrs to the SK prairies for some real DIY waterfowl hunting.

 

[RUGER]

Absolutely.

 

[wildlifefarmer]

For all of the hunters that haven't been hunting the seasonal draw blind areas and are slobbering at the thought of having the chance to hunt these duck meccas, I really hope you will take time to actually research and see what you are getting into before you waste your time and money making a long drive. Yes, in past decades, several of these areas and blinds killed a BUNCH of ducks. But, over the past several years, many, if not most, were a total waste of time for the permit holders if you were talking about the number of ducks killed.

I've never been drawn for a blind in over 30 years of attending blind drawings. But, I have had the opportunity to sign on a couple of blinds. I actually killed a handful one year on Old Hickory. But, in recent years, it wasn't even worth buying the duck stamp to make the drive west to a blind I had supplied time and decoys toward, even though I had a slot waiting on me. On the last blind, a top 5 pick for that area, I was told many years ago it averaged around 400 ducks over the 60 day season. The year my group had it, I think there were less than 50 killed over the sixty days. For you math wizards, yes, that is less than killing a duck a day. And, before some of you diss on the calling and shooting skills of the group, I can assure you that wasn't the case. If there are no ducks in the air, it doesn't matter how great you are! While the food and company can be awesome, the opportunity to kill some ducks is rarely there. And, unfortunately, that is the REALITY on a lot of these areas even for the "good" blinds. Many of the blinds on these areas are gar holes where hunters park hoping for a chance to hop to one of the duck a day blinds. They will still be gar holes when they are hunted for 3-7 days out of a boat.

And, it isn't just the state run WMAS that are sucking. I have multiple friends that pay major dollars for private holes from TN up to IL. While there may be a couple of days they kill a limit on these PRIVATE leases with much less pressure, on the vast majority of days they are lucky to scratch out a couple of ducks. So, for every one of the great grip and grin pics you see on Faceplant of a rat killing day, realize there are a bunch more where they don't even fire a shot. I've been told by several that they would NEVER want to discuss the cost per duck from their lease with their wives!

Until we get a change in the weather patterns where we actually see a lot of the states north of us freezing up and snow covering the food again, our duck hunting is going to continue to suck. It doesn't matter how many ducks are in the fall flight if they never make it down to TN during the season. So, if you are up for the time and travel expenses to stare at largely an empty sky, then, I wish you well. I'm just lucky it doesn't eat at me like it did when I was crazy enough to drive 30 hrs to the SK prairies for some real DIY waterfowl hunting.

I agree. Until the great lakes freeze over and they are ice fishing the birds will not be here in numbers. 10 days of hunting on public land this year in ARK, we did not see the numbers to justify uncasing our guns.

 

[DoubleRidge]

For all of the hunters that haven't been hunting the seasonal draw blind areas and are slobbering at the thought of having the chance to hunt these duck meccas, I really hope you will take time to actually research and see what you are getting into before you waste your time and money making a long drive. Yes, in past decades, several of these areas and blinds killed a BUNCH of ducks. But, over the past several years, many, if not most, were a total waste of time for the permit holders if you were talking about the number of ducks killed.

I've never been drawn for a blind in over 30 years of attending blind drawings. But, I have had the opportunity to sign on a couple of blinds. I actually killed a handful one year on Old Hickory. But, in recent years, it wasn't even worth buying the duck stamp to make the drive west to a blind I had supplied time and decoys toward, even though I had a slot waiting on me. On the last blind, a top 5 pick for that area, I was told many years ago it averaged around 400 ducks over the 60 day season. The year my group had it, I think there were less than 50 killed over the sixty days. For you math wizards, yes, that is less than killing a duck a day. And, before some of you diss on the calling and shooting skills of the group, I can assure you that wasn't the case. If there are no ducks in the air, it doesn't matter how great you are! While the food and company can be awesome, the opportunity to kill some ducks is rarely there. And, unfortunately, that is the REALITY on a lot of these areas even for the "good" blinds. Many of the blinds on these areas are gar holes where hunters park hoping for a chance to hop to one of the duck a day blinds. They will still be gar holes when they are hunted for 3-7 days out of a boat.

And, it isn't just the state run WMAS that are sucking. I have multiple friends that pay major dollars for private holes from TN up to IL. While there may be a couple of days they kill a limit on these PRIVATE leases with much less pressure, on the vast majority of days they are lucky to scratch out a couple of ducks. So, for every one of the great grip and grin pics you see on Faceplant of a rat killing day, realize there are a bunch more where they don't even fire a shot. I've been told by several that they would NEVER want to discuss the cost per duck from their lease with their wives!

Until we get a change in the weather patterns where we actually see a lot of the states north of us freezing up and snow covering the food again, our duck hunting is going to continue to suck. It doesn't matter how many ducks are in the fall flight if they never make it down to TN during the season. So, if you are up for the time and travel expenses to stare at largely an empty sky, then, I wish you well. I'm just lucky it doesn't eat at me like it did when I was crazy enough to drive 30 hrs to the SK prairies for some real DIY waterfowl hunting.

Don't duck hunt much anymore but have friends that do and follow their progress through the season.....you mention the weather pattern....if the current weather pattern continues (warmer avg temps in the fall) in the South would they ever consider shifting the season a couple of weeks ...or even a month ....to increase the odds of better weather??

 

[flyinpro]

Don't duck hunt much anymore but have friends that do and follow their progress through the season.....you mention the weather pattern....if the current weather pattern continues (warmer avg temps in the fall) in the South would they ever consider shifting the season a couple of weeks ...or even a month ....to increase the odds of better weather??

Often wonder why the season can't be shifted just 15-20 days.

 

[scn]

Often wonder why the season can't be shifted just 15-20 days.

The US Fish and Wildlife Service sets the season framework for all of the states. States are allowed to start their seasons sometime in October, and the hard finishing date is the end of January. I'm not sure if it was Jan. 31 this year, but, for the regular duck season, it is no later. They do allow one weekend of juvenile hunting post season.

So, the feds would have to adjust the framework back. Since they are in the "business" of protecting ducks, I don't see that happening due to breeding pairs of ducks already heading back north many years in February. The earlier they get onto their breeding grounds in good physical shape, the better nesting success.

So, TWRA, AR, etc, DON'T have the ability to push the seasons back.

 

[DoubleRidge]

The US Fish and Wildlife Service sets the season framework for all of the states. States are allowed to start their seasons sometime in October, and the hard finishing date is the end of January. I'm not sure if it was Jan. 31 this year, but, for the regular duck season, it is no later. They do allow one weekend of juvenile hunting post season.

So, the feds would have to adjust the framework back. Since they are in the "business" of protecting ducks, I don't see that happening due to breeding pairs of ducks already heading back north many years in February. The earlier they get onto their breeding grounds in good physical shape, the better nesting success.

So, TWRA, AR, etc, DON'T have the ability to push the seasons back.

Thanks for the explanation

 

[flyinpro]

The US Fish and Wildlife Service sets the season framework for all of the states. States are allowed to start their seasons sometime in October, and the hard finishing date is the end of January. I'm not sure if it was Jan. 31 this year, but, for the regular duck season, it is no later. They do allow one weekend of juvenile hunting post season.

So, the feds would have to adjust the framework back. Since they are in the "business" of protecting ducks, I don't see that happening due to breeding pairs of ducks already heading back north many years in February. The earlier they get onto their breeding grounds in good physical shape, the better nesting success.

So, TWRA, AR, etc, DON'T have the ability to push the seasons back.

Thanks, Had to know the feds are a factor. They do adjust bag limits and spices harvesting numbers from time to time. They could adjust some but you're right, they are all about protecting the ducks and they should be.

 

[scn]

Along the same lines as pushing the season back, another "daily" duck blind conversation is why won't they open up the refuges to hunting to make the few birds we have down here move a little. As Chris posted last night, if you were to do that, the refuges could quickly lose their ability to attract and shelter ducks.

It wasn't that many years ago that due primarily to changes in farming practices and water conditions on the breeding areas that duck numbers were heading down. The refuge system has helped to reverse that trend where most of the species are stable or increasing a little. Remember, that the better condition ducks are in when they make it back to their breeding grounds, the better nesting success they have. If they didn't have spots to feed and rest along their migration routes, even if they made it back north in the spring, the nesting success would be way down.

So, the feds aren't EVER going to open up their refuges. And, since most of the state refuges were purchased with federal aid dollars for the purpose of refuges, the states don't have the option of opening them, either.

If you REALLY want to blame something/somebody, blame the stock market. In recent decades, almost instant mega-fortunes have been made for folks that hit the dot.com right and other major stock hits. A lot of their new disposable income has gone into purchasing and developing land for waterfowl hunting. The level of engineering on a lot of these lands rivals any government refuge. Often they rest their hundreds of acres of waterfowl habitat even during the season to where they do have rat killing days when they have time to hunt. These developed lands become pseudo-refuges with the number of birds they hold. Again, if they don't freeze up where their open water and food isn't available, ducks will stay north after their seasons close the whole year as it is biologically better for them to "migrate" the least possible distance.

Even the duck leases people have contribute to the refuge effect. I know folks that may lease pits in AR, MO, and IL. They hunt them when they think it might be worth the drive. On the days these areas aren't hunted, they are like a mini-refuge. They don't hold thousands of ducks like a state or federal refuge, but, they can certainly spread out and hold a BUNCH of ducks that don't have to fly around looking for food and resting water.

So, there is plenty to be optimistic about as far as duck numbers. Unfortunately, I don't have the same optimism for duck hunting.

 

[WilcoKen]

scn your post is spot on. About a month ago a group of us finally got tired of what you are describing. So, we went and checked out 2 pits in the MO Bootheel and decided to sign the lease for 21-22 season—paying just under $10k. None of us are rich by any means but so tired of the trend here in mid TN.

All that being said I am not feeling warm and fuzzy about killing ducks—even there. So for the guys coming from the East to back fill our spots here get ready for the small dose of reality scn describes.

 

[WilcoKen]

Along the same lines as pushing the season back, another "daily" duck blind conversation is why won't they open up the refuges to hunting to make the few birds we have down here move a little. As Chris posted last night, if you were to do that, the refuges could quickly lose their ability to attract and shelter ducks.

It wasn't that many years ago that due primarily to changes in farming practices and water conditions on the breeding areas that duck numbers were heading down. The refuge system has helped to reverse that trend where most of the species are stable or increasing a little. Remember, that the better condition ducks are in when they make it back to their breeding grounds, the better nesting success they have. If they didn't have spots to feed and rest along their migration routes, even if they made it back north in the spring, the nesting success would be way down.

So, the feds aren't EVER going to open up their refuges. And, since most of the state refuges were purchased with federal aid dollars for the purpose of refuges, the states don't have the option of opening them, either.

If you REALLY want to blame something/somebody, blame the stock market. In recent decades, almost instant mega-fortunes have been made for folks that hit the dot.com right and other major stock hits. A lot of their new disposable income has gone into purchasing and developing land for waterfowl hunting. The level of engineering on a lot of these lands rivals any government refuge. Often they rest their hundreds of acres of waterfowl habitat even during the season to where they do have rat killing days when they have time to hunt. These developed lands become pseudo-refuges with the number of birds they hold. Again, if they don't freeze up where their open water and food isn't available, ducks will stay north after their seasons close the whole year as it is biologically better for them to "migrate" the least possible distance.

Even the duck leases people have contribute to the refuge effect. I know folks that may lease pits in AR, MO, and IL. They hunt them when they think it might be worth the drive. On the days these areas aren't hunted, they are like a mini-refuge. They don't hold thousands of ducks like a state or federal refuge, but, they can certainly spread out and hold a BUNCH of ducks that don't have to fly around looking for food and resting water.

So, there is plenty to be optimistic about as far as duck numbers. Unfortunately, I don't have the same optimism for duck hunting.

I would love to see the numbers in private land acreage that private dollars have helped create waterfowl habitat. I'm betting it far surpasses public funded acreage. Why would ducks leave those areas to come and get shot at? Add all the warm winters our flyway (top to bottom) have gotten and it becomes clear to me why we don't see ducks from the blind. I firmly believe duck populations are as strong as ever (in modern times). But we don't get to see them because they are all spread out. Just a thought.

 

[Displaced_Vol]

Seen it for years that guys in central KY flock to west KY. The guys that live in west KY hunt across one of the two big rivers.

 

[TNGunsmoke]

Another thing that comes into play besides the refuge system is that no till farming practices have taken over as the norm. They no longer burn over and til up the farm fields leaving a food waste land along the migration paths like common practices were years ago.

 

[Bgoodman30]

Don't duck hunt much anymore but have friends that do and follow their progress through the season.....you mention the weather pattern....if the current weather pattern continues (warmer avg temps in the fall) in the South would they ever consider shifting the season a couple of weeks ...or even a month ....to increase the odds of better weather??

No

 

[Bgoodman30]

Along the same lines as pushing the season back, another "daily" duck blind conversation is why won't they open up the refuges to hunting to make the few birds we have down here move a little. As Chris posted last night, if you were to do that, the refuges could quickly lose their ability to attract and shelter ducks.

It wasn't that many years ago that due primarily to changes in farming practices and water conditions on the breeding areas that duck numbers were heading down. The refuge system has helped to reverse that trend where most of the species are stable or increasing a little. Remember, that the better condition ducks are in when they make it back to their breeding grounds, the better nesting success they have. If they didn't have spots to feed and rest along their migration routes, even if they made it back north in the spring, the nesting success would be way down.

So, the feds aren't EVER going to open up their refuges. And, since most of the state refuges were purchased with federal aid dollars for the purpose of refuges, the states don't have the option of opening them, either.

If you REALLY want to blame something/somebody, blame the stock market. In recent decades, almost instant mega-fortunes have been made for folks that hit the dot.com right and other major stock hits. A lot of their new disposable income has gone into purchasing and developing land for waterfowl hunting. The level of engineering on a lot of these lands rivals any government refuge. Often they rest their hundreds of acres of waterfowl habitat even during the season to where they do have rat killing days when they have time to hunt. These developed lands become pseudo-refuges with the number of birds they hold. Again, if they don't freeze up where their open water and food isn't available, ducks will stay north after their seasons close the whole year as it is biologically better for them to "migrate" the least possible distance.

Even the duck leases people have contribute to the refuge effect. I know folks that may lease pits in AR, MO, and IL. They hunt them when they think it might be worth the drive. On the days these areas aren't hunted, they are like a mini-refuge. They don't hold thousands of ducks like a state or federal refuge, but, they can certainly spread out and hold a BUNCH of ducks that don't have to fly around looking for food and resting water.

So, there is plenty to be optimistic about as far as duck numbers. Unfortunately, I don't have the same optimism for duck hunting.

If we don't ever get the weather again and they don't ever open up the refuges again duck hunting in TN is toast.. DONE. I know of plenty of private ground with little to no pressure that still was not used by ducks over the refuge. There has to be extreme weather to get the ducks off the refuge and if we don't get it then that's where they will reside for 60.. People think the ducks never came down but that was not the case there were plenty of ducks that came down this season.

 

[Bgoodman30]

I would love to see the numbers in private land acreage that private dollars have helped create waterfowl habitat. I'm betting it far surpasses public funded acreage. Why would ducks leave those areas to come and get shot at? Add all the warm winters our flyway (top to bottom) have gotten and it becomes clear to me why we don't see ducks from the blind. I firmly believe duck populations are as strong as ever (in modern times). But we don't get to see them because they are all spread out. Just a thought.

They aren't spread out they are standing on top of each other!

 

[cmn]

We all know the climate has changed...that is our reality. Open water and little snow cover lead to poor migration. Thank goodness I don't hunt or lease farther south anymore....

 

[rukiddin]

@scn I feel like you left out another contributing factor. All you said was spot on but there's also a skill set missing in a lot of east TN duck hunters. Yes, on big flight days, you could kill ducks with a kazoo but there's also "good days" where good duck hunters can scratch out 20-25 birds by knowing what they're doing. A lot of hunters in west TN can do that simply because they have the experience and knowledge of working and calling ducks. I think the majority of east TN duck hunters simply don't have the skill set to do that. I'm not making fun of them, hell I am one, I'm just saying there's a lot of experience you can gain by LIVING in areas where duck hunting is big and last time I checked, Knoxville ain't no duck Mecca. Hahaha.
And to add to it. The good duck hunters in east TN find a way to kill ducks. Whether it be local, or they travel all season long. The rest just complain that they don't have "opportunities".............................

 

[scn]

Sorry, I don't agree at all. IMO, hunters from ETN have identical skill sets. If you can scratch out some birds out of virtually nothing in the east, you can kill birds anywhere in the country!

 

[OffHand85]

Vandemore, holds a lot of ducks.what we call the million dollar hole hold lots of ducks and isn't hunted until the last weekend. Bill Byers holds lots of ducks and the ducks know where we aren't, vildo road when the hatchie floods holds thousands, the backwoods flooded timber that's almost inaccessible holds million up and down the flyway, the ducks we see is a small percentage of what's out there, hunting pressure keeps ducks away.