Smokeless 43 gr. imr sr 4759

[FARMTOFIELD]

Has anyone ever chronied this load with a 300 grain xtp or hornady HP? Both bullets are very accurate out of my gun but I'm thinking aboutworking up a grain or so if accuracy permits.

I really dont know if it is worth it because, I shot a 9 pt at 20 yards last year and got pass through, as well as a 13 pt at 80-90 yards slightly quartering to me and the bullet entered clipping theshoulder and lodged in its skin on its opposite hind quarter.

The reason I'm even considering changing is because I have 200 yd shot opportunities this year. Any since in changing? What you guys think?

 

[ratsnakeboogy]

43gr of SR4759 is about max for a 300gr bullet IMO.

 

[tasaman]

43gr is a good load. You can go a bit higher but I'm not sure what max would be as I have heard of a few folks shooting a couple grains more than that.

If you want to stretch it out the bullet is the limiting factor in your setup. A slicker bullet will help you quite a bit. Projectiles such as Barnes TMZ or TEZ, a Parker Ballistic Extreme or Match/Hunter, and the old reliable Barnes Original and the Shockwave are all better ballistics than the flying brick that is the XTP. I love the XTP but it does have a few downfalls.

My load is 43gr of 4759 and a Barnes Original in a BCR. It's right under 2200 fps but it's super reliable and if you zero at 175 it's a dead hold our to about 220 yards. I shot a big doe right around 200 yards last year and still had a pass through. If you tried that with the XTP you would probably not have an exit hole.

 

[Rubberduck270]

I've got some 250 gr. Mono-Flex that you can try. 43 gr. of 4759 and a 250 gr. bullet should put you around 2325 fps or so. They are .458 like a Barnes Original.

 

[Rubberduck270]

I'll load you up a few vials of H4198 if you really want to light a fire under it's a$$ too.

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

Lol I may shoot the hornady 4500 this year in a bcr its a tad more Accurate than the xtp at 100 and I do mean a tad.

99% of my shots will be well within 100 so I dont even know why I bother thinking about it.

I have shot deer with the xtp so how does the hornady HP hold up to the xtp?

 

[Tar12]

I have shot both the Hornady 4500 and the XTP at speeds ranging from 1800 fps to 2400 fps.They both kill. At the higher end of speed range the hornady will frag bad.Guts/lung hanging out the ENTRANCE side. The hole was huge! Though the XTP will frag as well the XTP held up better with no gaping holes. As far as construction a side by side cut away revealed the 4500 was a tad thinner although it is touted as a big game bullet. Dont buy into that as I have seen jacketed pistol bullets thicker than the 4500. The thing to remember is that every bullet has a particular speed range that is designed to operate in. The vast majority of bullets available to us(pistol bullets) are designed to operate in the 1750 -1900 fps range. Take them outside of this range and they will frag.Of the bullets designed to shoot in the 45-70 the .458 300 grn Barnes Orginal is by far the toughest and most accurate of them all and will take a deer out at ANY angle through bone. I shot this wonderful bullet exclusively for a number of years out of a .50. It is a little pricey but to me worth every penny! This bullet will not frag and you can not push it fast enough to do so!

 

[EastTNHunter]

I thought that IMR 4756 was the reccomended powder, not 4759? Am I wrong?

 

[ewc]

Am I wrong?

Yes. IMR SR-4759

Also FYI, with 4759 and 250's, work up with a chrono to 2,300 fps. I'll bet you'll far surpass the 43 gr mark. At least I did when I had to shoot some of a new plastic jug. The 1/2 pound metal cans were good with the 43 grains = 2,305 fps. Plastic jug took me 47 gr. to reach 2,300.

With a 300 gr bullet, subtract 100 fps off the speeds.

 

[ewc]

It's always been my advice with 4759 to hit 2,300 fps with a 250. Do that and you should be done. Something about 4759 and 2,300 fps has worked in every gun I set up and all my friends guns too.

Sometimes the load is 43 grains, sometimes it's more. Point being find 2,300 fps.

 

[EastTNHunter]

I am gonna try it out, as 5744 has gotten crazy expensive for some reason, but the 4759 has been a decent price when I have seen it lately. I will stick with my Hornady 4500 bullets

 

[Tar12]

Am I wrong?

Yes. IMR SR-4759

Also FYI, with 4759 and 250's, work up with a chrono to 2,300 fps. I'll bet you'll far surpass the 43 gr mark. At least I did when I had to shoot some of a new plastic jug. The 1/2 pound metal cans were good with the 43 grains = 2,305 fps. Plastic jug took me 47 gr. to reach 2,300.

With a 300 gr bullet, subtract 100 fps off the speeds.

x1

 

[Tar12]

I might also add that IMR 4759 is not the best choice for 300 grn bullets as it is a powder that builds pressure quickly.Reloader-7,N-120,H or IMR-4198 would be better choices.

 

[Tar12]

Just a little FYI on the Hornaday 4500. Speer makes a version that shoots just as well and is bonded for additional strength. I use them in my Savage ML and my 45-70. The cost is comparable.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/8-SPEER-2482

You got a picture of one of them? Bonded would be real nice!

 

[EastTNHunter]

I might also add that IMR 4759 is not the best choice for 300 grn bullets as it is a powder that builds pressure quickly.Reloader-7,N-120,H or IMR-4198 would be better choices.

I have RL7, but I don't want the additional recoil. I like the 5744 ok, but last time I saw it in the store it was at least $6/lb higher than all of the other rifle powders

 

[EastTNHunter]

Every deer that I have shot with the 4500 has gone right down, with complete pass through and good blood trail. This is from directly under my stand out to 150+yd. I like it REAL well.

 

[Tar12]

Every deer that I have shot with the 4500 has gone right down, with complete pass through and good blood trail. This is from directly under my stand out to 150+yd. I like it REAL well.

Since you like this style of bullet you may like the .457 Remington 300 grn.it is very similiar in performance,construction and price.They are both to destructive for my liking but will absolutley drop the hammer of Thor on those whitetails!

 

[Tar12]

I like the looks of that bullet! Very little exposed lead which should help control exspansion some what and cut down on shrapnel.

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

I dont know whether to stay with thextp or the 4500 I think Iwill try the 4500 this year I dont even know if I'll up my powder 43 seemed to have worked fine last year

 

[EastTNHunter]

I am just shooting the "book load" of 44gr XMR5744, so my speeds aren't screaming like some of you guys like to. At these velocities I have not gotten any "hand grenading" that some people report. I even got good results from 300gr SSTs that some people report having fragmentation problems from, but they were just too hard to load in my gun. I just went smokeless for the clean-up and reliability, not the improved ballistics. I do get more speed out of that load than 777 in my old CVA, though.

 

[Tar12]

EastTnHunter I started shooting these smokeless guns back in "99". Those first years all I ever shot was 44 grns of AA5744 (approx. 9lbs of it)and the 300 grn XTP inside of a MMP short black sabot. Accuracy was unreal. I literally killed truck loads of deer with this combo as I did and still do summer depredation control work.This basic book load will never break 2,000 fps with a 300 grn bullet but it will break a lot of deers hearts! lol

 

[EastTNHunter]

I agree whole heartedly, Tar12, it'll knock 'em down. I have had a few blackpowder rifles that were really good guns, but the tight barrels HAD to be swabbed between shots or else you couldn't get decent accuracy or even get the projectile down the barrel. In my basic black/blue MLII I really like the .458 bullets with the orange MMP sabot, but just ordered some crush ribs the other day based on some recommendations from a few guys on here. They both seem to load easily and give good enough accuracy, but I haven't messed with the crush ribbed sabots much yet. I am not into the sub-moa range that some of you are, as I usually don't have the time at the range with the ml to tweak loads while waiting 20 minutes between shots. I am really intrigued by some of the work that y'all do, as I am a handloader, but I just haven't had the time or drive to delve into any of these projects yet. When/if I do I will probably build a smokeless m700 or Savage or H&R and try it out. I have to keep the budget in check, not to mention the time factor, with kids.

 

[Tar12]

I hear you.One of the reasons I got into to smokeless muzzleloading was the kids. I was NOT cleaning 3 smokepoles every night! lol

 

[Tar12]

EastTnHunter is a pic of a custom .50...the first smokeless build for my son. Load was 60 grn of N-120..458 BO and the Black Harvester Crush rib.This gun was a 1 holer @ 100 yds. It did not do to shabby @ 300 yds either. Following is a paic of the first 300 yd group out of this gun. 3 in. CTC. The .50s are very capable of outstanding accuracy.

 

[Roost 1]

I love N120 and a BO.......

 

[ewc]

Here in the east, you would have better luck finding hens teeth than N120.

Try Loudon County Sportsman in Lenoir City. They keep VV powders in stock. I bought some for scn there not too long ago.

 

[ewc]

I guess I was wrong. I guess I didn't take 3# of it to scn in Nashville. My bad. Thanks for the correction.

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

I can't find any VV powders here nobody even carries them

 

[TheLBLman]

I guess I was wrong. I guess I didn't take 3# of it to scn in Nashville. My bad. Thanks for the correction.

EWC,

Thanks for all your input on these boards, and no, you were not wrong. But Loudon Co Sportsman tells me they have not had any N120 in many months. I did just check, and they do not have any now, nor do they have any hope of getting any N120 before Obama is either impeached or otherwise out of office. Same goes for about everywhere else that might have carried it a year ago.

They also don't have any Reloader-7, although they hope to get some in soon.

I can't find any VV powders here nobody even carries them

I suspect should you find any, it's going carry a very premium price at this point.

We may have to revert back to making our own black powder and picking up paw-paws.

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

I can get reloader 7