Fordman
Well-Known Member
Truth spoken from the very man that convinced me to start shooting more does. Lordy that was many moons ago in a conference room at Henry Horton State Park.
2 buck limit question from WV
- Thread starter jaydell
- Start date
killingtime 41
Well-Known Member
No worries the 2 buck limit will most likely improve the age class. Maybe not a ton but will improve it. TN went to 2 buck. And we all had a bunch to say about it on here. But last couple years on public I mostly hunt. I have seen more 3 1/2 year olds than I seen 10 years prior to the limit drop. I don't make charts or figure out statistics. So They're may be other factors I can't say. But my observation in the woods has me somewhat convinced. I usually concentrate my efforts on a doe or 2 early season into muzzleloader. Sometimes I just let them walk not feeling like hitting and dragging and cleaning. If the time feels right I shoot. If not I just observe. From muzzleloader till December I am more serious about bucks. I personally am looking for 3 1/2 or older. That is a trophy to me. Big antlers is a bonus but age more important. TN deer registry has never even crossed my mind honestly. I'm in my 40's now and I've become way more selective. More than I ever thought I would be in my 20's. When I was younger killing the first buck I seen was a given. We were taught doe's were off limits. Especially if you wanted more deer to be born. I'm sure I'm not alone in my thinking especially those 40 plus. So pay no attention to the statistics you see. They're are many reasons for numbers to go up and down. WV will be fine give it time and you will see.
Well I am in my 60's and have seen the deer numbers go from very few to a good population, then we have had die offs that take years to rebound and the numbers didn't seem to come back as big as before , hunter recruitment has declined and older hunters dropping out due to age and lose of hunting places to due to leases $$$, as the numbers show most never killed a limit before and still don't , it has lowered the opportunity for all hunters just to try to appease a few trophy hunters, YMMV
The decline in book deer in TN is because of hunters not wanting to draw light on to their harvest. I can't say how it will affect WVs deer herd but where I hunt it has helped a good bit. Especially with the age of bucks.
BSK
Well-Known Member
The problem with saying a particular regulation improved the buck age structure is that nothing happens in a vacuum. Yes, regulations change periodically. But so does hunter behavior. So which caused a change in local buck age structure, the change in regulations or the change in hunter behavior? Or did neither cause the change, and the change is simply due to an increase in local buck numbers, meaning the same harvest numbers are actually taking a smaller percentage of what bucks exist, hence more bucks survive hunting season and buck age structure improves?
We hunters are an aging population. As we age we tend to become more selective. I remember the days not so long ago when limiting out on bucks was the goal of many hunters. Now what do we see/hear/read on this site? Hunters are tired of fooling with processing a bunch of deer. All they really want is at least one good buck a year, and in a rare year, two good bucks. That change in behavior alone is guaranteed to improve the buck age structure, regardless of changes in regulations.
We hunters are an aging population. As we age we tend to become more selective. I remember the days not so long ago when limiting out on bucks was the goal of many hunters. Now what do we see/hear/read on this site? Hunters are tired of fooling with processing a bunch of deer. All they really want is at least one good buck a year, and in a rare year, two good bucks. That change in behavior alone is guaranteed to improve the buck age structure, regardless of changes in regulations.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
All good points and good questions.
While I agree with all your comments, there is one implication "regardless of changes in regulations" for which may matter much more than you implied.
This is kinda one of those "which came first, the chicken or the egg scenarios".
Like you said, nothing happens in a vacuum.
When TN statewide went to a simple 2-buck limit only a few years ago, yes, hunters had already become much more selective. But the reasons they did wasn't simply because of their aging. Although the limit had been 3 bucks, before it was more recently reduced to 2, it had been 2 for a single year (1998), and had been 11 in 1997 and prior.
I would argue that the single biggest impetus modifying TN's collective deer hunter behavior actually happened in 1998. And it was in fact a "reg change".
You see, in 1997 and prior, TN had an 11-buck limit, and most hunters were in fact shooting every buck they could, very few bucks getting a pass. And on the other hand, most TN deer hunting had been "buck only" with relatively little hunting opportunities to kill a doe.
But in 1998, the statewide buck limit was suddenly changed to simply 2 bucks. At the same time, antlerless opportunities began expanding. At about this same time, the philosophy of "Quality Deer Management" was getting press, with a fast growing number of hunters adopting this philosophy. In fact, these particular "quality" minded hunters were instrumental in causing the TN buck limit to go from 11 to 2 in 1998. The QDM folks also spread the gospel of more balanced sex deer harvest and "quality" over "quantity" deer, habitat, and hunter management.
In 1998, we TN deer hunters were a much younger group. We were not so tired of dragging out deer as we were tired of seeing so few deer over 2 1/2 years of age. Soon thereafter, Unit L was created and antlerless deer hunting opportunities expanded across the state. What most of us got tired of dragging was does, and/or "deer", but not necessarily bucks.
What I'm saying is that the 2-buck limit of 1998 greatly caused and/or accelerated hunters' behavior to be much more selective with their bucks. After it was then 3 for a few years (beginning in 1999), you are correct about how the buck age was trending higher, BEFORE that buck limit went back to 2 (as it's been now for a few years).
Adding to the motivation of hunters being more selective with their bucks, many of the former "bonus" bucks on WMAs now COUNT "same as statewide" AGAINST the hunter's 2-buck limit. Even in 1998, many avid TN deer hunters were killing 2 or 3 "bonus" bucks on WMAs in addition to their 2 bucks "statewide". So again, a reg change has contributed to hunter behavior, maybe more than the aging of those hunters?
But yes, as we get older, we do tend to appreciate even more quality over quantity.
BSK
Well-Known Member
I wasn't saying regulation changes don't produce results. Without question, going from 11 bucks to a limited number of bucks (2 or 3) accelarated a change that was going to occur anyways. That regulation change made a major impact. As did the development of Unit L and nearly unlimited doe harvest opportunities. That regulation change also had a major impact.
However, thinking that going from several years of a 3 buck limit down to a 2 buck limit made a difference is highly questionable. The data certainly doesn't support that idea. The data clearly shows the change going from 11 bucks to 2 bucks, and the development of Unit L had on harvests. But 3 bucks to 2? Nothing there really.
However, thinking that going from several years of a 3 buck limit down to a 2 buck limit made a difference is highly questionable. The data certainly doesn't support that idea. The data clearly shows the change going from 11 bucks to 2 bucks, and the development of Unit L had on harvests. But 3 bucks to 2? Nothing there really.
Of course 11 down to 2 made a huge difference all the way around, but 3 to 2 made zero difference except making trophy JOHN's feelings a little smoother until now they wont be satisfied until they get the coveted trophy state 1 buck limit yet further restricting opportunities to everyday joe's
Just for reference east Tn has never had over a 3 buck limit, there are some draw hunts for bonus, west Tn was the high limits, not seen a large increase of big deer posted since they were dropped to 3, maybe somebody that has all the numbers could make a spread sheet. Your mostly just going to loose a buck with very little gain imo welcome to trophy hunting in 2023 lol
Oked
Active Member
Shoot more does, that's what helps most areas
I haven't seen that shooting more doe increases big bucks lol. for a very long time we were not allowed a doe, then bow hunters were given the go ahead and think they are allowed to take or wound 3-4 every season now lol.
gobblesandgrunts
Well-Known Member
If I manage to kill a 5+ year old deer, that's really saying something in my book. Regardless of how big the horns are. You choose to shoot what you want to shoot. No matter what you shoot them for, management or trophy, it's how you use them imo.
