Smokeless 1st time at range with Savage

[BULL MOOSE]

Finally got some time to hit range and having issues.

I must say that the first shot was nerve racking ..... Did I load it correctly or is a pipe bomb about to explode?

I am shooting imr4579, Black MmP sabots, 300 gr hornadyXTP mag , and using Lee dipper for 43.3 grains. Gun is in ml2 stainless with Accutrigger on camo synthetic stock. I do plan to upgrade to a thumbhole boy eats featherlight soon. Leupold bases and a camo Nikon 3 x 9 x 50 scope on top. I picked it up this summer off GunBroker from a pawnshop in North Carolina.

I removed the original breech plug and installed a new 3/8 style. I would say that it does load tight, butI have never had an easy loading muzzleloader yet.

First two shots were almost on top of each 2 inches high at 25 yards dead center… I was Es static. I spaced my loading and shooting while checking the zero on my 30.06 Browning and a new 7 mm 08.

At 100 yards the bullets were all over the place with a 2 foot spread. I was hoping to get to go hunt with it on Thursday through the weekend, but unless I can figure out the problem that will not happen.

I did not notice any keyholing on bullets and finding the say blows would be impossible. Scope is tight and I drug the load each load with the same amount of pressure. I am using Winchester 777 shotshell 209 primers cause that is all I had.

Any ideas? Reduce load down one Lees dipper to 40 grains? Different primers?

 

[Jcalder]

You really need different primers. The 777 primers are not meant for your setup. I have no experience in smokeless muzzleloaders but I do reload and you may have to play with your charge a bit. Also you may find your gun likes certain bullets/sabots more than others. While working up a load only change one thing at a time. If you change 2-3 things you can't be sure what is truly helping or hurting.


Big or small, kill em all

 

[ADR]

I'm definitely not a seasoned veteran by any means but here's my $0.02.

1) better primers federal 209 a or cci mags

2) maybe different powder re-7, h4198

3) weigh the charges

4) mmp? Orange sabots or harvester crushed black rib sabots

I'm really only relating to my experiences. There are MANY others here with so much more experience, hopefully they will post more relateabe information.

 

[GMB54]

Yep wrong primers. Regular Win209 primers are fine. Mag primers are also fine. I prefer the Fed209A when using mags.

Which MMP sabot? The recommended MMP sabot is call the MMP short black. The MMP HPH-24 sabot is likely way way too loose. The MMP HPH-12 will work in some Savages. MMP Orange with 458 bullets is pretty popular too. That is the one mine liked. The Harvester Red Crushrib is also popular if using .452 bullets. The Black Crushrib is pretty loose with a .452 so many people use .458s instead. They were too tight in mine with a .458.

While i like SR4759, i really like slower powders better with 300gr bullets. Reloder7 is ok and its not as hard on the sabots (kinda dirty). N120 is awesome if you can find it. 4198 is ok but you need a pretty healthy dose to maintain good pressure.

As mentioned, weigh your powder. If you want to use a dipper get some 5744. Its a fps dog but super reliable....oh and its also filthy.

Check and make sure the recoil lug and scope base are not touching. Several people have reported that it causes accuracy issues.

 

[Deer Assassin]

never understood why folks use a pistol bullet in a rifle

will it work absolutely will it kill absolutely


use fed 209 a

250 or 300 sst or 300 barnes expander
MMP HPH-12 worked for me

h4198 or re7

 

[holstonangler]

Your Primers, powder, or bullet shouldn't be making spreads of 2' at the range, maybe a couple or three inches but not 2'. A couple things to first check is the length of time between shots and if your scope base is touching the barrel nut.

 

[ewc]

I was thinking of getting a Savage. Reading this result, I may go another way.

Help?

 

[ewc]

FNKidding.

Easy fix. I was kidding with the above.

[email protected]

 

[BULL MOOSE]

Assassin....the bullets, powder, and sabot were all recommended loads in the Savage manual. I bought 2 savages this summer, one mint and one well used. I decided to start shooting the older gun first and replaced the older slot style breech plug with a 3/8 hex style. The newer gun came complete with a ton of bullets, 2 new kegs of powder, 3 new plugs, bunch of vent liners, etc.

The factory plastic stocks are pitiful, but I would be happy with a 2-3 inch group at 100 yards. I went from 2 inches high at 25 yards to no where on the target at 100.

I managed to squeeze in 90 minutes on the range today. I checked and dialed in my old rusted Knight first so I can hunt! That rifle has a solid 2 inch group with 2 777 pellets and some new Barnes 250 grains. Same gun dropped a buck at 143 yds last year. However, it is the biggest pain to clean and I dread the chore tonight.

I decided to try these new bullets in savage as well and simply replaced the yellow sabots with the mmps. Also picked up some new Winchester primers at Gander that were back in stock today. I have clean paper covering a 3 X 3 foot area and one shot out of 5 hit. It could be the scope, I rotated the reticle and adjusted but did not take the time to check base screws. The bore is tight and I have consistent seating which I measure every time.

The front base extends beyond the barrel slightly but it does not seem to be touching.

 

[BULL MOOSE]

Pic

 

[Tims]

Savage muzzleloaders have been known to kill a few scopes.

 

[BULL MOOSE]

It's possiblethe scope is off... and it's pretty clear compared to my Leupold vx-3 2.5 x 8.
I placed in freezer for an hour and it did not fall when removed so I was hoping it might work. Don't know the warranty on those scopes.

 

[Rubberduck270]

What do your sabots look like after you shoot them?

 

[BULL MOOSE]

Honestly… I have not had time to look and the TWRA range is covered with leaves and other wads.

 

[mike243]

Id drop the charge a little and see what it does,sabot might be getting blown and when that happens they will be all over

 

[PillsburyDoughboy]

Try taking the scope off and using iron sites at 50 yards and see what happens


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[TX300mag]

Are you shooting at Natchez Trace?

 

[dgb7mm]

My son and I both had the same problem when we started trying to dial in. Backing off the powder was the key. Now they both shoot lights out! good luck to you and stick with it. Also rotate shots between the two rifles giving some time to cool and see if that helps. The barrel can heat up and have effect.

 

[gatodoc]

Mine shoots great with Hornaday 250 gr 42 gr N110....Same sabots as yours

Hornaday 300 gr can't get tight groups with 42, 43, 44 grain loads...

My gun likes 250 gr bullets so I shoot that...

 

[BULL MOOSE]

Twra range at Lake Graham. You would think we would have many more public ranges in West TN that were open year round and a close drive. Subdivision boys don't have big fields to go shooting.

 

[BULL MOOSE]

I tried again, and gave up. I have another brand new black one so may just sell this one and start over before I throw any more time and money into it.

 

[TX300mag]

I was gonna offer to meet you and try a couple of bullet/powder combinations just to rule that out.
I have a little H4198 and will have Reloader 7 (we could try N120 but it probably wouldn't make sense to like it and not be able to use it) along with some 300g SST and 300g Barnes Original. It's starting to look more and more like I won't make it up until Thanksgiving now, but if you're interested I'll let you know if I make it up this week as planned.



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[Deer Assassin]

i will be honest during season i will be slammed

when hunting is over
if you want to make the drive to exit 182 I am 3 miles from there

we can set the chrono up and shoot all day at the house and figure it out

i have other powder options but no more 50 cal bullets

bring those sabots and some other bullets we will make it happen

 

[BULL MOOSE]

Great guys on here! Like you, my time is limited as well, so the 30.06 comes out on Saturday. We will revisit the Savage later.