realistic goals for big bucks (score not age)

[102]

This is a topic Tndeer had been kicking around since David Jolley was still alive. It has been beat to death.
Having been an Official B/C and P/Y scorer for going on a decade, and unofficial well before that, I can tell you there is a really good reason that Tennessee has a Registry for deer that allows 115 entry for bow kills and 140 for gun. These are the numbers for NET scores that are the equivalent to P/Y (115) and B/C (140") of antler score after deductions.

You would be AMAZED at how few make that NET score.

And 125 for P/Y or 160 for B/C is MUCH MUCH lower odds.

Yes...there are pockets of highly managed, well fed, good nutrient soils (think Nashville Basin, row crops, farmlands of the midwest for others for a quick reference w/o getting to in depth, AKA BSK).

But even these high yield, nutrient rich, great carrying capacity, well managed properties in Tennessee don't always produce Booners, or even close to B/C bucks with any kind of regularity.

Yes there are always the outliers but the VAST majority of pressured public land hunters in Tennessee will probably never glimpse a true B/C buck.

WHY?

Glad you asked...How many years does it take for a buck to grow a set of antlers that NET 140?
160?
125?
It might be 2 years...but then again...that is the definition of an "outlier" or exception.

Big racked bucks, in most public land in Tennessee, are probably older than most. VERY mature in every way. Smart!

HARD TO KILL!

HARD to see!

 

[deerhunter10]

Don't disagree at all. The only thing that I'll say about the scoring system and while I understand it dont agree with it. I honestly could care less about net score. Is a giant net high scoring deer impressive 100 percent. But so is a gross high scoring deer. I think that's why you are seeing both of those organizations not doing that well.

With all of that said a net or even gross booner is not ever going to be seen by many in tennessee period on public or private. We have highly manged good/great ground for decades and never personally seen one. Have a picture of one deer that maybe? But probably in the mid 160s.

In fact i see it here and a lot on Facebook most people have no idea how to score deer the amount of people that are holding a 125 inch deer saying its 140, there's a lot of that.

A 150 inch deer is a stud of a deer with a lot of antler on their head.

The one thing I did like about the nwtf is seeing the taxidermy and the scoring of those deer it puts it into perspective.


Also many places high grade their bucks really bad. And that hurts ever getting those high scoring deer.

 

[knightrider]

Don't disagree at all. The only thing that I'll say about the scoring system and while I understand it dont agree with it. I honestly could care less about net score. Is a giant net high scoring deer impressive 100 percent. But so is a gross high scoring deer. I think that's why you are seeing both of those organizations not doing that well.

With all of that said a net or even gross booner is not ever going to be seen by many in tennessee period on public or private. We have highly manged good/great ground for decades and never personally seen one. Have a picture of one deer that maybe? But probably in the mid 160s.

In fact i see it here and a lot on Facebook most people have no idea how to score deer the amount of people that are holding a 125 inch deer saying its 140, there's a lot of that.

A 150 inch deer is a stud of a deer with a lot of antler on their head.

The one thing I did like about the nwtf is seeing the taxidermy and the scoring of those deer it puts it into perspective.


Also many places high grade their bucks really bad. And that hurts ever getting those high scoring deer.

You said a mouth full with high grading!!! Very few deer hunters in tn have the restraint to let a 125-140 walk to maybe have the chance of seeing him again as a 150-160 and im definitely one of em, i just cant do it cause im tickled to no end to shoot a 125-130!!

 

[TheLBLman]

Yes there are always the outliers but the VAST majority of pressured public land hunters in Tennessee will probably never glimpse a true B/C buck.

IMO, it really doesn't matter much whether we're talking public or private lands in TN.
Odds are extremely low of ever even seeing a true B&C buck in TN.

I've been part of a large hunting club for decades, thousands of contagious acres in Stewart Co., TN. No One has ever killed much less seen a true B&C buck there, despite top-end quality deer management. I can count on 3 fingers the bucks that have gross scored over 150, and zero have made 160 gross. That's in nearly the past 30 years, for an area that is actually above average for TN.

Average mature buck is @ 120, with very, very few ever hitting 140, no matter how old they might live.

Remarkably though, I can travel only a few miles into KY and same age bucks will average 10 to 15" more antler at 3 1/2 yrs of age, and 150's become more common than 130's just the other side of the State Line in TN. While KY's deer management is a factor, I believe it has more to do with the KY soils than herd management. And, yes, there is in fact a HUGE difference in Trigg Co., KY soils vs Stewart Co., TN soils.

 

[TheLBLman]

Also many places high grade their bucks really bad. And that hurts ever getting those high scoring deer.

I'm actually seeing this happen to a higher degree on private lands than public lands in TN. Ironically, some of the worst areas are large-acreage hunting clubs!

In fact, despite the low odds in TN, I believe I personally have a better chance at a 150-plus buck on public lands than private lands. This is solely because of the antler high-grading issue. I can tell you, 4,000-plus private acres isn't enough to prevent most "your" best young bucks from roaming off the property and getting killed elsewhere, even if you & your hunting buddies give them all a pass (which almost never happens).

During the rut, 2 1//2-yr-old & older bucks commonly "roam" 2 to 3 linear miles in a single 24-hr period. Even if a particular buck's most "core" area were the very middle of a 5,000-acre circle, he would be spending much of his rutting time outside your boundaries, and probably get killed for no other reason than having above average antlers.

So just saying, in TN, the grass is not necessarily all that much greener with private vs. public lands IF your goal is to take a buck scoring over 150 gross. If you want to do this the "easy" way, you need to go to a state like IL, OH, IN, KY, etc., where the average middle-aged buck is @ 15 to 20" larger antlered than TN's.

Kinda like trying to catch a 10-plus-lb bass in TN. It's possible, but if you really want to greatly increase your odds, you need to be fishing somewhere like South Florida where they actually commonly grow that large.

 

[Planking]

Finding big bucks is easy. Gas the truck up and grab the thermal during their velvet period and drive around until you find one. Buddy up with others that do the same thing so you can locate these big bucks. Don't worry about the people that actually own the land that you are stalking and privacy you are invading at night because the law is on your side. Come during the velvet hunt with the thermal scope and suppressor and get your big buck. Telecheck the next morning early. If you miss out at that time come back with night vision so you can see hard horn. Pay close attention to the people that are trying to live in the area. See if you can find out their work schedule, family make up, etc so you will know when the best time is for you and your hunt. That is how it is done where i live. Hunt your hunt.

 

[knightrider]

Finding big bucks is easy. Gas the truck up and grab the thermal during their velvet period and drive around until you find one. Buddy up with others that do the same thing so you can locate these big bucks. Don't worry about the people that actually own the land that you are stalking and privacy you are invading at night because the law is on your side. Come during the velvet hunt with the thermal scope and suppressor and get your big buck. Telecheck the next morning early. If you miss out at that time come back with night vision so you can see hard horn. Pay close attention to the people that are trying to live in the area. See if you can find out their work schedule, family make up, etc so you will know when the best time is for you and your hunt. That is how it is done where i live. Hunt your hunt.

Oh dear lord, we know we know!!!!!

 

[wobblegobble]

I will not shoot a 120 inch deer or under unless it's 5 years old. My soon took a 7 year old 116 inch 8pt this year, that's kinda how we do it.

 

[Rackseeker]

Just because you don't see them posted on a public forum or in the TN deer registry. Doesn't mean quite a few 150"+ bucks don't get taken every year.

 

[BSK]

Just because you don't see them posted on a public forum or in the TN deer registry. Doesn't mean quite a few 150"+ bucks don't get taken every year.

When you think about the number of deer hunters in TN that are "trophy hunting" and the number of 150+ deer taken, they are a tiny minority. 150+ deer in TN are quite rare, at any age.

 

[BSK]

I agree with both 102, deerhunter10, and TheLBLman.

Mature bucks are no longer rare in TN. I have pictures of thousands of them (literally). However, high-scoring mature bucks ARE rare. Not super rare, but rare enough few hunters ever see one. Why? Because like TheLBLman said, high-grading. Top-end bucks get killed when they're easier to kill - at 3 1/2. Sometimes at 2 1/2. A 125 2 1/2 year-old buck is a dead buck walking. Few hunters would pass him up, because with his smaller body at that age, a 125 rack on him is going to look like a 140. A 140 3 1/2 year-old buck is also a dead buck walking. Who is going to pass that up? But THAT is the buck that might become a booner.

 

[BSK]

102,

The one place I would add to your list is the sinkhole plain of a small sliver of northcentral TN, and the southcentral KY counties. That is the area with the highest average scores per age-class I've seen anywhere in the Southeast.

Now get up to the river-bottom counties of the Ohio River, and again, huge averages (think Ballard County).

 

[Rackseeker]

When you think about the number of deer hunters in TN that are "trophy hunting" and the number of 150+ deer taken, they are a tiny minority. 150+ deer in TN are quite rare, at any age.

I would agree with that considering the whole state of TN but there are a couple counties that produce several 150"+ bucks every year that don't get posted on social media, submitted to P&Y, B&C etc.,

 

[BSK]

I would agree with that considering the whole state of TN but there are a couple counties that produce several 150"+ bucks every year that don't get posted on social media, submitted to P&Y, B&C etc.,

Agreed. But then what percentage of bucks killed in that county are 150+? Tiny, tiny minority.

They exist, every year. But they are rare across the landscape. I see them on camera, every year. But those bucks just don't get killed very often, and they make up an incredibly small percentage of all of the bucks in a given area, even in the best areas of TN.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

A 150+ is for sure rare to see. Getting pics maybe slightly easier and actually killing one very rare. Off the top of my head, we've only seen or picture 3-4 bucks close to 150 and 1 close to 160….in 26 years we've had our place. And of course I missed the one close to 160

 

[Ski]

Killing a P&Y buck here in southern middle TN is an accomplishment. I've lived and hunted here since 2015 and haven't even seen a buck that could qualify, on camera or while hunting. A booner may as well be a unicorn or sasquach.

Contrasting with my Ohio place, many 2.5yr old and most 3.5yr olds qualify. I could kill multiple any given year and most years have at least one booner to chase. That's my only gripe about the trophy organizations. They favor midwestern states while almost completely excluding much of the southern range. Their one size fits all standards don't apply equally. People hunt whitetails across most of north America and size varies pretty greatly across that range. It would make sense for standards to be scaled accordingly.

 

[deerhunter10]

Killing a P&Y buck here in southern middle TN is an accomplishment. I've lived and hunted here since 2015 and haven't even seen a buck that could qualify, on camera or while hunting. A booner may as well be a unicorn or sasquach.

I agree and I'm blessed enough to have killed several. Now I have good places. With that said its still an accomplishment in my eyes especially a mature 4.5 plus deer in tn is an accomplishment.

I would agree with that considering the whole state of TN but there are a couple counties that produce several 150"+ bucks every year that don't get posted on social media, submitted to P&Y, B&C etc.,

They are out there no doubt. Just not a huge percentage like bsk said. With that said. There's a lot of people that still post pictures but a ton of people have wised up to that, simply because they end up losing farms that way.

Kill a booner and post it and the next thing you know its going to be quite crowded around you. And if its a lease someone is going to throw down some major money for that piece.

Kill 140 plus deer and post it it'll still get crowded.

I can't stand how they go about it. But how many people are hunting suburban areas now that seek one is killing 200"s? And how many are trying and can't find any to hunt? That's a number not known, but I bet there's a major uptick to it.

 

[102]

I agree with both BSK, deerhunter10, and TheLBLman.

All good points.

IMO...killing a mature buck is about killing an animal that has survived hunting pressure and learned how to avoid humans.
He has grown heavy, thick necked, stubby looking legs, thick shoulders and rump, and very calculating. Sometimes though, he has run himself thin (usually not the neck though), and may carry antlers that literally amount to thick spikes.

But make no mistake, except for a very rutty buck, focused on breeding, these guys are anything but a pushover.

They equate human scent with danger and will do whatever it takes to avoid it.

But in out world of instant gratification, cell cams, social media posting, and very quick communication, it would be SHOCKING that a GIANT exists anywhere near public land that several hunters (and non-hunters) don't know about.

Yet people still throw big numbers around like they are common. And they are NOT.

I don't really care, but I believe hunters ought to have realistic expectations and enjoy killing what makes them happy.

 

[7mmWSM]

I like scoring deer but only on the gross side. Most hunters have no idea how big a 140 really is especially when most are killing 110-120's and calling them 130+. Most think 140-150's are running around everywhere when they're really not. I wish I had a 130-140 to go after every year. I've seen only one 160+ deer in my life in Tn and killed it.

 

[BSK]

IMO...killing a mature buck is about killing an animal that has survived hunting pressure and learned how to avoid humans.
He has grown heavy, thick necked, stubby looking legs, thick shoulders and rump, and very calculating. Sometimes though, he has run himself thin (usually not the neck though), and may carry antlers that literally amount to thick spikes.

How about actually amount to thick spikes.

In 2022, this mature buck was the most active mature buck in daylight I've ever seen. I would get his pictures/videos in daylight in one of our 9 food plots almost every day. Yet after hunting him hard, he was never seen by any of the hunters.

 

[BSK]

I like scoring deer but only on the gross side. Most hunters have no idea how big a 140 really is especially when most are killing 110-120's and calling them 130+. Most think 140-150's are running around everywhere when they're really not. I wish I had a 130-140 to go after every year. I've seen only one 160+ deer in my life in Tn and killed it.

I'm lucky that the local habitat (lots of bottomland ag) in my area produces at least one 130-140 buck on my place every year. It will produce 150+ about once every two to three years. But how often do they get killed? Very rarely.

 

[wobblegobble]

I would agree with that considering the whole state of TN but there are a couple counties that produce several 150"+ bucks every year that don't get posted on social media, submitted to P&Y, B&C etc.,

I know that county lol

 

[wobblegobble]

I like scoring deer but only on the gross side. Most hunters have no idea how big a 140 really is especially when most are killing 110-120's and calling them 130+. Most think 140-150's are running around everywhere when they're really not. I wish I had a 130-140 to go after every year. I've seen only one 160+ deer in my life in Tn and killed it.

It's wild that a majority of people can't score a deer remotely properly and most have never held a 130

 

[Rackseeker]

I know that county lol

Wish I lived closer so I could hunt it a little more often.

 

[Ski]

It's wild that a majority of people can't score a deer remotely properly and most have never held a 130

With all the tutorials & instant calculators available online there is no excuse for not being able to measure a rack. Bogus numbers have nothing to do with inability to properly measure and everything to do with exaggeration. I blame social media and TV. I can't count all the grip & grin pictures I see with ridiculous score numbers as if everybody looking can't see through the BS. And I see TV host hunters passing up "4yr old 130's" when in actuality they're 2yr old 100's. So many people exaggerate & lie & gaslight that it doesn't seem to matter that we have an exact scientific metric by which to determine score. Sure you could call it out when you see it but then all the online bleeding hearts will hammer you for poo pooing on someone's happy success. So lies are allowed to stand and what we have left is a bunch of confusion because a kid kills a 110" buck & can't understand why he isn't getting 140" from the measurements. All his life he's been shown what a 140" buck looks like and his buck looks exactly like that, so why is it only measuring 110"? In confused frustration he posts pics up on TNDeer asking for score estimates & then gets his feelings hurt when people tell him it's 110". Rinse & repeat

 

[Andy S.]

Great thread with a lot of truth that SO MANY deer/buck hunters do not understand, or just fail to accept.

 

[tickweed]

I wonder just how many actual booners are killed in Tn. Each season. I'd say probably 3 or 4, if that.

 

[BSK]

I wonder just how many actual booners are killed in Tn. Each season. I'd say probably 3 or 4, if that.

Is it that many?

 

[deerhunter10]

I wonder just how many actual booners are killed in Tn. Each season. I'd say probably 3 or 4, if that.

I know of 2 killed in one county last year. 1 of 2 i held with my own hands. gross booner neither went net. How many total i dont know, its not many.

 

[ThorThor]

They are out there but everyone is right not many even have the genetics to make it over 150 at any age and those are very hard to kill when older. When you do see them are going somewhere and not messing around. I had a 150 ish 9 pt that I am guessing was five on two cams in a small area I hunt and he was sooo inconsistent this year. I did not have any late Oct or Nov mule deer in 2024 so I was able to spend a lot of time trying to kill him ( about 15/16 days guessing ) and never saw him in person. Unless they are on a hot doe and she walks by they are so tough at 4.5 and older to pin down.