Food Plots Disc vs tiller

TRIGGER

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Forgive my ignorance on this subject I am new to planting in general and food plots. I am in the process of buying a piece of property (102 acres) that has +/- 8 acres of field that I'm going to start learning on. I do not have a tractor and am wanting to do the work with my skid steer. Will a disc or tiller work better for planting? My mind tells me there is a lot less to go wrong with a disc and may be faster??? Thoughts?
 

BSK

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Popcorn is definitely the person to answer this question with authority. But here's what I've seen and personally experienced.

Much depends on whether the ground actually needs to be turned. Much can be done with spray/seed/mow techniques, especially for fields not planted in a summer crop. Spraying and mowing summer weeds/grass onto broadcast seed has many, many advantages, especially for holding soil moisture during dry periods and preventing soil erosion. But this technique has it's down-sides as well. For very compacted soils, poor quality thin soils, and/or cherty soils, it can take years of spray/mow planting to build up any topsoil. In addition, lime and fertilizer do not become deeply incorporated into the soil without turning the ground. A seed drill is better option than just spray/mow, as it allows any type of seed to be planted, and germination rates will be much higher (and seeding rates lower, saving money). But in thin, hard soils, a drill isn't an option. It will just roll across the surface without cutting in.

Bog disks and chisel plows are about the only option for extreme hardpacked or chert soils. But even then, it's best to try and break ground right after a rain, when the soil is softest. However, just disking often leaves the broken ground in big chunks. This still helps a little with getting soil moisture deeper into the ground, but doesn't help as much for producing a smooth seed bed. Using a tiller AFTER disking produces a very nice seed bed, but if the ground is very rocky, it can be extremely hard on a tiller (and the tiller needs to be gear driven instead of chain driven).

Again, everything comes down to current soil condition and what you want to plant. IF adequate soil already exists, I would look towards drilling as a first option, with spray/mow the 2nd option (as long as only small-seeded plants are used). If the soil is extremely hard or cherty, look at bog-disking first followed by tilling.
 

JCDEERMAN

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Everything BSK said is spot on.

Disc or tiller? That all depends on your soil. If it is rocky with not much topsoil, a tiller will get beat up in no time. A disc is faster in most circumstances, but just remember that you'll have to go over it a couple times. For what it's worth, we have both and we have some fields a tiller will work magic. Other fields, I wouldn't even think about running it.
 

TRIGGER

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The fields are on the ridge top. I'm guessing very rocky. I have zero knowledge of this property's past. All of the satellite imaging I have seen doesn't show anything planted besides one small what I'm assuming was a food plot. I am going to get with the current owner hopefully and ask him about it.
 

Quailman

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Trigger, a good place to start on finding out what soil types you have is the USDA Web Soil Survey. Go to the home page and just click on the large green icon that says "start WSS". You can look at a lot of different land use information that is related to your soil types.
If you need some additional insight, feel free to reach out to one of our local NRCS offices in your county. We're always available to help. Thanks
 

Deer 1

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I've pulled a disc for several years with my skidsteer planting about 6acres of various food plots(corn, sunflowers, soybeans, oats, wheat, turnips, clover, rape, chickory, cereal rye, millet) you name it. I like to watch things grow and see what the wildlife prefer.

I use triple 15 when I plant. The crops normally do very well. Nature has more to do with it than me( hot, dry wet, cold, insects etc)

Plants just want to live and grow don't overthink it. Just get in there, get your boots dirty, and watch what happens!!!
 
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BSK

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Everything BSK said is spot on.

Disc or tiller? That all depends on your soil. If it is rocky with not much topsoil, a tiller will get beat up in no time. A disc is faster in most circumstances, but just remember that you'll have to go over it a couple times. For what it's worth, we have both and we have some fields a tiller will work magic. Other fields, I wouldn't even think about running it.
My plots started concrete hard, big chunk chert (as in the size of grapefruit). Years of spray and mow created a thin veneer of topsoil. Now we've been tilling them for 4 years. I think we have enough soil a disk might actually work better than the tiller. And without question, we are beating the tiller to death on all those rocks. But we've produced some amazingly productive plots. I'm now actually growing soybeans in the summer in those terrible ridge-top plots.
 

JCDEERMAN

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My plots started concrete hard, big chunk chert (as in the size of grapefruit). Years of spray and mow created a thin veneer of topsoil. Now we've been tilling them for 4 years. I think we have enough soil a disk might actually work better than the tiller. And without question, we are beating the tiller to death on all those rocks. But we've produced some amazingly productive plots. I'm now actually growing soybeans in the summer in those terrible ridge-top plots.
Exact same scenario here. We've worked our fields (9 acres total) for 22 years now. They don't hardly have a rock in them now from being thrown off into the woods. Now, the newly-added 11 acres that was hardwoods 4 months ago will be a work in progress. All ridge-top as well. We plan on liming/fertilizing in Jan-Mar (whenever it is dry enough) in hopes there will be a ton of green tonnage growing up on into May. Then drilling soybeans and spraying a couple weeks later. Love the no till method, no matter which way you do it.

I'm on a lease on the plateau with my FIL and he got a tiller over the summer. That worked really well until the ground bent one of the tiller blades causing it to bang on the side wall every time it turned. We had to get a maul and hammer it back in two separate times.
 

BSK

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Exact same scenario here. We've worked our fields (9 acres total) for 22 years now. They don't hardly have a rock in them now from being thrown off into the woods. Now, the newly-added 11 acres that was hardwoods 4 months ago will be a work in progress. All ridge-top as well. We plan on liming/fertilizing in Jan-Mar (whenever it is dry enough) in hopes there will be a ton of green tonnage growing up on into May. Then drilling soybeans and spraying a couple weeks later. Love the no till method, no matter which way you do it.

I'm on a lease on the plateau with my FIL and he got a tiller over the summer. That worked really well until the ground bent one of the tiller blades causing it to bang on the side wall every time it turned. We had to get a maul and hammer it back in two separate times.
We don't go "small time" and bend teeth, we break them clean off!

And little by little, or heavy duty John Deere tiller is shaking itself to pieces!
 

BSK

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I wouldn't think of using a tiller in that type soil. It would likely tear it up. Disc may not fare well either.
First time we tried to turn our plots, I got a brand new double-gang disk. It lasted less than 24 hours before the axles stretched so far the disk-plates were flopping all over. Went straight to the trash heap.
 

backyardtndeer

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First time we tried to turn our plots, I got a brand new double-gang disk. It lasted less than 24 hours before the axles stretched so far the disk-plates were flopping all over. Went straight to the trash heap.
For something like that, a heavy duty ripper to break sections first, then turn it may work best. I don't have rocks, but before I had my disc, used the teeth on my box blade to rip hard soil for a garden. Box blade teeth are usually pretty heavy steel(made to handle dealing with rocks), challenge is being able to drop them deep enough to break up the soil. Can tighten the top link to where the back end is higher. Some are designed well with regards to holding up to busting up rock.
 

Popcorn

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Let's start with a compaction test. Take a 3/8 rebar stake and see if you can push it into the soil by hand 1 inch? 3? 6?
Surface compaction makes life hard on seedlings.
Next
Take a hammer and lightly tap the rebar and drive it till it suddenly becomes harder to drive or stops. 4 inches? 6 inches ? 8? maybe 12? Now dig that spot up with a shovel or post hole digger. What stopped you? A rock or soil? Find the hard pan.
Knowing these things will too you what your soil conditions are.
While you are doing this take soil samples from at least a dozen locations in the field and send them off for analysis and ph testing. Be prepared to lime your soil.
Next decide what you want to plant because the crop determines the soil needs and processes.
I have a tph tiller for my garden. They are not designed for breaking ground, only finishing plowed or disturbed soil. I have a tph disk works well in loose soil or plowed soil but not hard ground. If a disk was all I had access to then I would scuff it up best I could with that, don't destroy your tiller. When in doubt plant a blend, when building soils plant a blend. Spring or fall plant a blend. I am a strong believer in soil building and with 7 to 9 species blends you can do wonders. I also like to feed wildlife and blends can feed many species at one time but even if I plant only soybeans I plant a blend of forage beans. If you have a tph attachment for your skid steer then you might want to consider an orchard plow, a great tool for rough ground. If your field has been compacted severely you may need a sub-soil ripper to get down deep and break up that compaction. This will allow water to penetrate and be stored rather than run off and opens the soil for roots to reach that water and other nutrients previously unreachable.
Many areas have less than 1% organic matter in the soil, 3 % is considered great and 5% is magnificent and 5% would be a lofty but honorable goal.
You can also help your soil with your plant choices. Turnips run deep tap roots seeking water and nutrients opening passages in the soil. Sun hemp is a legume with a good root system, annual clovers are shallow legumes that will feed nitrogen to the other plants, buckwheat is always a good choice for roots, collard greens and radishes generate matter and are nutritious. Sorghum hybrids and corn produces a lot of matter for soil building and cover for wildlife. Beans and peas are pretty much food but do convert and save nitrogen.
Soil samples are where to start after learning about compaction. If you have highly erodible soil like I am working with on a farm in Ky you want to consider managing erosion with plants and methods. Wheat, cereal rye, oats germinate quickly (in that order) and help hold soils while other seeds germinate and develop more slowly. They are also desirable browse and will absorb pressure while other seeds get a start. I use cereal rye to protect over browsed clover in the winter. They also help protect the soil from drying effects of sun and wind and insulate soil temps.
Sorry for the book, I love this stuff. Glad to help anytime.
 

bjohnson

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I would run an old disc plow through before anything just in case you've got some large rocks(boulders) lurking a few inches below the surface. Less likely to ruin equipment this way because the disc will roll over rocks or roots. Disc plows can be had cheap too.
 

BSK

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For something like that, a heavy duty ripper to break sections first, then turn it may work best. I don't have rocks, but before I had my disc, used the teeth on my box blade to rip hard soil for a garden. Box blade teeth are usually pretty heavy steel(made to handle dealing with rocks), challenge is being able to drop them deep enough to break up the soil. Can tighten the top link to where the back end is higher. Some are designed well with regards to holding up to busting up rock.
Tried the teeth on a box blade. Ripped one of the teeth right through the frame!
 

TRIGGER

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What a wealth of information. You guys are definitely throwing me in the deep end first lol. Once I get closed on the land (hopefully by the end of the month. I will start with checking out the compaction. Does is matter what time of year a soil sample it taken?
 

poorhunter

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For something like that, a heavy duty ripper to break sections first, then turn it may work best. I don't have rocks, but before I had my disc, used the teeth on my box blade to rip hard soil for a garden. Box blade teeth are usually pretty heavy steel(made to handle dealing with rocks), challenge is being able to drop them deep enough to break up the soil. Can tighten the top link to where the back end is higher. Some are designed well with regards to holding up to busting up rock.
I have used a box blade with the teeth down to flatten the ground and rip up roots in fairly rocky soil, and it would work well to prep a food plot too. It takes a bunch of passes, but if you don't have a bunch of trash like grass and weeds to clog up the teeth it's a good option.
 
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Exact same scenario here. We've worked our fields (9 acres total) for 22 years now. They don't hardly have a rock in them now from being thrown off into the woods. Now, the newly-added 11 acres that was hardwoods 4 months ago will be a work in progress. All ridge-top as well. We plan on liming/fertilizing in Jan-Mar (whenever it is dry enough) in hopes there will be a ton of green tonnage growing up on into May. Then drilling soybeans and spraying a couple weeks later. Love the no till method, no matter which way you do it.

I'm on a lease on the plateau with my FIL and he got a tiller over the summer. That worked really well until the ground bent one of the tiller blades causing it to bang on the side wall every time it turned. We had to get a maul and hammer it back in two separate times.


Forgive my ignorance on this subject I am new to planting in general and food plots. I am in the process of buying a piece of property (102 acres) that has +/- 8 acres of field that I'm going to start learning on. I do not have a tractor and am wanting to do the work with my skid steer. Will a disc or tiller work better for planting? My mind tells me there is a lot less to go wrong with a disc and may be faster??? Thoughts?
A disc is the best way to start off. Especially If you are unfamiliar with the ground who knows what you will run into. I'd rather hit a rock, buried old Tpost, old logging cables, wire etc with a disc rather than a tiller. After initial tillage with a disc you will know what you got and can work with your tiller and skip the disc in the future. I do projects like this all over the state and the examples above of hazards are some of what I've seen / had to deal with.
 

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