If you have not burned

JCDEERMAN

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I meant to take some pics this morning. One of our burns several weeks ago was in an area that was previously logged - everything was taken out except the white oaks. It got out of hand and grew up, so we just burned. I went through there this morning and all the under and mid story was nuked. Looked awesome. Fresh new growth coming up. I'll try to take pics next time I'm there.
 

JCDEERMAN

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I meant to take some pics this morning. One of our burns several weeks ago was in an area that was previously logged - everything was taken out except the white oaks. It got out of hand and grew up, so we just burned. I went through there this morning and all the under and mid story was nuked. Looked awesome. Fresh new growth coming up. I'll try to take pics next time I'm there.
Follow up pics on this burn unit…

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JCDEERMAN

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Good looking burn and like the new growth. My second burn was an area logged three years ago. Lots of tree tops and plenty of fuel. It was real hot.
This one was logged about 7 years ago. A lot of the new growth is mostly greenbrier and ragweed, which deer love and is highly nutritious. A lot of it is new oaks (from all the acorns). The next burn through here will be during late summer / early fall to kill even more of those woody stems either in 2025-2026.

I wish the majority of the property was just like this, but this was just a 5 acre section. The goal is to continue thinning timber and dragging out for the mill to come pick up. Once all the timber is thinned, it will be nothing but lighting fires ever so often. Surely some hack-n-squirt as a follow up. A lot of work yet to come
 

mcbuck58

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This one was logged about 7 years ago. A lot of the new growth is mostly greenbrier and ragweed, which deer love and is highly nutritious. A lot of it is new oaks (from all the acorns). The next burn through here will be during late summer / early fall to kill even more of those woody stems either in 2025-2026.

I wish the majority of the property was just like this, but this was just a 5 acre section. The goal is to continue thinning timber and dragging out for the mill to come pick up. Once all the timber is thinned, it will be nothing but lighting fires ever so often. Surely some hack-n-squirt as a follow up. A lot of work yet to come
Sounds like a good plan. Good job.
 

Boll Weevil

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This one was logged about 7 years ago.
Question: Will all those young hardwoods only be topkilled from that burn or will they be killed killed?

Everything I just ran a fire thru had leafed out real good already so I'm hoping they all got permanently torched and won't have to deal with those stems anymore.
 
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JCDEERMAN

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Question: Will all those young hardwoods only be topkilled from that burn or will they be killed killed?

Everything I just ran a fire thru had leafed out real good already so I'm hoping they all got permanently torched and won't have to deal with those stems anymore.
Will continue to monitor, but on this one, it appears they are toast. We did another burn the same day that was about 9 acres and on that one, it's just as you describe. A lot of it leafed out - will definitely have to do some tsi as a follow up in that one.

I'd say if it already leafed out, then you ran a fire through there, and it was hot enough, you probably did enough damage to kill quite a bit.
 

Boll Weevil

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I thought about starting a new thread but since there's already so many prescribed fire folks here will just use this one for a little twist on our topic. Anyone thought about establishing pine or oak savanna? My forester came out and looked after we got done burning and mentioned savanna ecosystems (which I of course new very little about). He said the first burn was a good one and could be well on the way to pine savanna if I wanted to go that route with part of the timber stand.

So, I'm studying to learn more…starting from ground zero. Anyone doing or look into this for an oak or pine stand?

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DoubleRidge

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I thought about starting a new thread but since there's already so many prescribed fire folks here will just use this one for a little twist on our topic. Anyone thought about establishing pine or oak savanna? My forester came out and looked after we got done burning and mentioned savanna ecosystems (which I of course new very little about). He said the first burn was a good one and could be well on the way to pine savanna if I wanted to go that route with part of the timber stand.

So, I'm studying to learn more…starting from ground zero. Anyone doing or look into this for an oak or pine stand?

View attachment 226691
I've read about oak or pine savannahs and love the idea. Our Forester mentioned the same thing for one part of our property that was classified as old field growth..in this area he cut the poplars hard and left the scatttered oaks and a few other species. Several grasses and briars have developed but we hadnt ran fire through there yet. My understanding is that in years past savannah type habitat was much more common than thick dense canopied forest and there were way more native grass areas....no doubt savannah type habitat is good for a variety of wildlife....so Im in the same boat...studying to learn....very interesting topic.
 
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BSK

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So, I'm studying to learn more…starting from ground zero. Anyone doing or look into this for an oak or pine stand?
I've done quite a bit of work in pine savannah in southern GA and northern FL (primarily quail plantations). AWESOME habitat for many species, especially quail, turkey, and deer. You can see mile upon mile of this type of habitat around Albany, GA. Because of that habitat, the Albany area is a hot spot for big deer in southern GA.
 

mcbuck58

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Use to work on Black Oak Savanna's up north. These areas are unique with scattered trees having some prairie plants, grasses and forbs. They were burned regularly just as native people did. Yes I know diversity is good but in my opinion if you are managing for deer and turkey they are not that good. Yes deer and turkey will feed on the acorns especially if some white oak in there. For deer there is no thickets for bedding or dropping fawns. For turkeys there is no nesting cover or brooding cover. This is just my opinion.
 

Boll Weevil

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Per this map, 1000s of years of prehistoric fire seems to have been the rule rather than the exception…frequently too. Obviously settlement had some impact over the years, but even as a child (both sides of my family are from MS) I can remember the older generation being perfectly comfortable with fire.

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BSK

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Use to work on Black Oak Savanna's up north. These areas are unique with scattered trees having some prairie plants, grasses and forbs. They were burned regularly just as native people did. Yes I know diversity is good but in my opinion if you are managing for deer and turkey they are not that good. Yes deer and turkey will feed on the acorns especially if some white oak in there. For deer there is no thickets for bedding or dropping fawns. For turkeys there is no nesting cover or brooding cover. This is just my opinion.
I've never worked in Black Oak savannahs, so I don't know their species composition, but in mixed oak/pine savannahs of the Deep South, the grasses and forbs are waist to shoulder high. It is nothing but bedding/fawning cover! In fact, cover can be so extensive that it can make hunting a little difficult at times (too much cover).
 

Boll Weevil

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In my case, it would be at least 90/10 pine/hardwood with only the hardwood drains remaining more of an oak monoculture. I'm just starting to research it but there's tons of plant diversity and to me, it looks like incredible brooding and fawning cover. Compared to the ecological desert of pinestraw and cones prior to burning, it's night and day.
 

mcbuck58

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I've never worked in Black Oak savannahs, so I don't know their species composition, but in mixed oak/pine savannahs of the Deep South, the grasses and forbs are waist to shoulder high. It is nothing but bedding/fawning cover! In fact, cover can be so extensive that it can make hunting a little difficult at times (too much cover).
There was some knee high to waist high but not thick like your describing. Young black oak could survive the burns but get it to hot and white oak couldn't take it. I thought they were burning to often with a three year rotation. The trees were scattered so it was dappled sun and shade. This area was where forest met prairie in the past and short prairie plants, grasses and forbs were the norm. Sounds like Deep South savanna is way different. Here where I am in south central KY next to Mammoth Cave National Park it is all woodland. I have not seen any savanna looking areas.
 

JCDEERMAN

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I thought about starting a new thread but since there's already so many prescribed fire folks here will just use this one for a little twist on our topic. Anyone thought about establishing pine or oak savanna? My forester came out and looked after we got done burning and mentioned savanna ecosystems (which I of course new very little about). He said the first burn was a good one and could be well on the way to pine savanna if I wanted to go that route with part of the timber stand.

So, I'm studying to learn more…starting from ground zero. Anyone doing or look into this for an oak or pine stand?

View attachment 226691
We are trying to establish oak savannas on our place. Mostly on S facing slopes, with a few W and E facing.

Oak woodlands are starting to become popular and many forestry folks are moving to it. Have to do a little reading on it. Seems to be more dense than a savanna, but still offers enough sunlight for grasses and forbs. Also some woody browse and bush—type shrubs.
 

BSK

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There was some knee high to waist high but not thick like your describing. Young black oak could survive the burns but get it to hot and white oak couldn't take it. I thought they were burning to often with a three year rotation. The trees were scattered so it was dappled sun and shade. This area was where forest met prairie in the past and short prairie plants, grasses and forbs were the norm. Sounds like Deep South savanna is way different. Here where I am in south central KY next to Mammoth Cave National Park it is all woodland. I have not seen any savanna looking areas.
Yes, true southern oak/pine savannahs are isolated trees growing in expansive grasslands. Considerable space between each tree canopy. Most areas, 20% tree canopy, rest open grasslands.
 

wildlifefarmer

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My forester several years ago suggested an area for an oak savannah split in two sections with a fire break. We try to burn 1 section every year if conditions are right. It is helping with the recruitment of all the critters with the diversity of habitat it creates. Pic is of one of the burns in Feb of 22.
 

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