"Will There Be Mass Noncompliance On ATF's Pistol Brace Rule?" (and an explanation of the current ruling)

[Henry]

Please be smart and don't make a comment of noncompliance...it's not worth having these people bust down your door at 3 in the morning.

Maybe just use this for info and don't post a comment at all?

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/will-there-be-mass-noncompliance-atfs-pistol-brace-rule

 

[DaveTN]

I don't know if there will be mass noncompliance, probably not. But I bet there will be a lot of free tax stamps handed out. We probably wouldn't know if individuals were arrested unless they posted here.

If you want information, go straight to the source, the BATF.

We have discussed this in a couple of threads.

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/factoring-criteria-firearms-attached-stabilizing-braces
https://www.tndeer.com/threads/oh-its-on-atf-goes-after-the-stabilizing-braces.430745/
https://www.tndeer.com/threads/atf-and-short-barrelled-rifles.431578/

 

[Pic IN the Casa]

Waiting on Joe and the Ho to tell us black people can still get theirs.

 

[Omega]

Bottom line, yes, a bunch of non-compliance...and compliance via free stamps. With the tens of millions of braces out there, it's bound to be that way.

 

[Antler Daddy]

And these were banned for what reason? Was one used in a mass shoooting?

 

[DaveTN]

And these were banned for what reason? Was one used in a mass shoooting?

The ATF published the rule on Jan. 31, setting off a 120-day countdown on the impending pistol brace ban. The Biden administration made the decision to regulate the item in 2021 after a gunman used a firearm equipped with the device to kill 10 people.

Before the incident, the ATF had issued multiple classification letters, saying the stabilizing brace would not qualify as an SBR if it were used as intended. The creators say the device is meant to go around a user's forearm for one-handed shooting. However, the ATF later argued that manufacturers modified and marketed braced pistols as SBRs.

https://freerangeamerican.us/pistol...nistration made the,it were used as intended.

 

[PossumSlayer]

I don't know if there will be mass noncompliance, probably not. But I bet there will be a lot of free tax stamps handed out. We probably wouldn't know if individuals were arrested unless they posted here.

If you want information, go straight to the source, the BATF.

We have discussed this in a couple of threads.

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/factoring-criteria-firearms-attached-stabilizing-braces
https://www.tndeer.com/threads/oh-its-on-atf-goes-after-the-stabilizing-braces.430745/
https://www.tndeer.com/threads/atf-and-short-barrelled-rifles.431578/

When the bump stock deal happened there was like a .105% participation rate. This one will be the same

 

[DaveTN]

When the bump stock deal happened there was like a .105% participation rate. This one will be the same

I doubt that. There was no free registration for bump stocks. The only option was to destroy them. The gun forums are full of guys comparing when they submitted and when they got approval on their brace.

But I have never believed the numbers they throw around when talking about braces. 10 to 40 million, that's crazy, that's someone wet dream. But it really has no impact, one way or the other.

But you can make up a participation rate for them the same as the one you made up for the bump stocks.

 

[UCStandSitter]

Never about the brace. Always about the registry…

 

[Henry]

I don't have a brace, but technically, this is a wishful regulation, it isn't a legal law because it's not voted on by the House/Senate/signed by a cognitive Pres, so maybe we should pay attention and have some money ready to defend the first person arrested for this as they try to make an example of him and the American people can reverse this on them in the courts.

 

[DaveTN]

I wouldn't want to be the test dummy. You would be arrested for having a short, barreled rifle. And that is a law. You are correct that they don't have the authority to do what they are doing. But they didn't have the authority to make the brace available as a non NFA conversion in the first place.

They didn't have the authority to make short, barreled rifles legal by calling "Pistols". But they did it. That's going to be the next drama.

Everyone was okay with these clowns sitting behind a desk and making up stupid rulings that violate the law, as long as they were creating something the gun owners wanted. But when they said "Oops, we got it wrong" all of a sudden they don't have that authority.

Personally I believe we should be able to have machine guns, but congress disagrees with me. I played the "AR Pistol" game for awhile. But found out a 5.56 AR that can't be shouldered is a useless POS. So I got rid of mine. If I had one with a brace laying around I would jump on the free registration thing. But I don't need one enough to mess with it.

 

[SSlater]

I don't have a brace, but technically, this is a wishful regulation, it isn't a legal law because it's not voted on by the House/Senate/signed by a cognitive Pres, so maybe we should pay attention and have some money ready to defend the first person arrested for this as they try to make an example of him and the American people can reverse this on them in the courts.

It's already in the courts. Lawsuits were filed immediately.

 

[BlackBelt]

Clock is running on the tax-exempt registrations. Several lawsuits are pending, but unless an emergency declaration is made any decisions will be made after the tax-exempt deadline has passed.
I imagine BATFE is not going to immediately go after unregistered brace owners after the deadline passes. More likely just an "add-on" offense if they catch you with one. If the courts dont halt the ban it is a pretty hefty punishment of max 10 years in prison and $250k fine. Most NFA ownership violation punishments that I've seen don't get the maximum sentence. It seems they typically get 2.5- 4.5 years in the pen and fines varying greatly, but they are always enough to sting. Of course the felony violation means no more firearms for the offender as well.
If the courts do not issue an injunction before the deadline, I would advise not having an unregistered brace in your posession after that date.

Illegal firearms posession charges usually come down to ONE thing in court...did you have it or not?
A losing argument starts out "yes, but...".

 

[DaveTN]

 

[PossumSlayer]

Tom Grieve according to the ATF:

"Out of the 40 million or so pistol brace owners, only 250,000 people took advantage of free tax stamp. That's 0.6-8%."

Hopefully this is true

 

[DaveTN]

Seeing how the average estimate is 20 million AR's in circulation, that number is nothing more than wishful thinking. I'd guess the 3 to 7 million number the BATF is throwing out is probably correct.

However… I don't know why that number is important. If an individual is found to be in violation, the popularity of the ruling won't impact how long they go to prison for.

I'd guess a large percentage of those that own braces have no idea of what's happening. Or what is about to happen….possibly to them.

 

[Omega]

Seeing how the average estimate is 20 million AR's in circulation, that number is nothing more than wishful thinking. I'd guess the 3 to 7 million number the BATF is throwing out is probably correct.

However… I don't know why that number is important. If an individual is found to be in violation, the popularity of the ruling won't impact how long they go to prison for.

I'd guess a large percentage of those that own braces have no idea of what's happening. Or what is about to happen….possibly to them.

I'd venture to say that the number of 40 million is probably closer to the truth, especially considering the popularity of 80% and 3d printed lowers. Of course that doesn't mean 40 million individuals as most have more than one AR in their stable, so that number is considerably lower.

 

[TNhunter]

Btw you don't get a free tax stamp. You get a mark in the registry and a forbearance of the tax. You don't get a stamp as if you paid the $200 tax to get the sbr stamp.

 

[44 mag]

I'd venture to say that the number of 40 million is probably closer to the truth, especially considering the popularity of 80% and 3d printed lowers. Of course that doesn't mean 40 million individuals as most have more than one AR in their stable, so that number is considerably lower.

I agree with you. I think it's closer to the 40 million. There are braces on a lot more than ARs. Such as the shockwave type shotguns, MPXs, Rugers ugly 9mm ext.

 

[TechNY210]

So, to add fuel to this fire. When you are member of GOA or other orgs mentioned in the court case, that's OK then? Technically yes, but don't want to find out the hard way.
Any LEOs here ? They will be the ones putting "bracelets" on ya... Wonder what local LEOs think...

 

[Omega]

So, to add fuel to this fire. When you are member of GOA or other orgs mentioned in the court case, that's OK then? Technically yes, but don't want to find out the hard way.
Any LEOs here ? They will be the ones putting "bracelets" on ya... Wonder what local LEOs think...

In short, yes, you are ok to still have them if you belong to GOA and the other organizations with injunctions, at least until the case is finalized at which time you will either need to take it off, add a 16" barrel, or it will be overturned and you can keep it as is. I am now curious as to how they will handle the situation if they get overturned, and I think it will; will they nullify the free stamps, or just suck up the loss?

 

[DaveTN]

So, to add fuel to this fire. When you are member of GOA or other orgs mentioned in the court case, that's OK then? Technically yes, but don't want to find out the hard way.
Any LEOs here ? They will be the ones putting "bracelets" on ya... Wonder what local LEOs think...

I think you will find local LEO's won't get involved in this much more than possibly a charge that can be tacked onto other criminal charges.

I think more likely would be a person targeted by the Feds. The current AG and especially the head of the BATF isn't going to give any kind of leeway on a gun charge. The entire democratic party is running on zero tolerance on guns. Especially evil guns.

 

[Swampster]

Bottom line, yes, a bunch of non-compliance...and compliance via free stamps. With the tens of millions of braces out there, it's bound to be that way.

That many out there? I don't see any attraction or real world application. Obviously, I'm not the target market, but who is?

 

[Omega]

That many out there? I don't see any attraction or real world application. Obviously, I'm not the target market, but who is?

Yes, there are that many. A brace gives you the ability to shoot a pistol much better than with just the tube, and in the case of some braces like the Maxim CQB make them look much better too. With some rounds, especially the 300BLK. the optimum barrel length is around 10.5", all powder is burned and you get the max performance. And, for CQB, the barrel length makes it easier to maneuver around structures, and makes room clearing much easier. And finally for those that choose to go quite, a shorter barrel is almost a prerequisite since a silencer would make it unwieldy otherwise.