Which bullet?

[MUP]

Plinkers

They sure are LOL They came with my first ML, an American Knight, and I've used them exclusively ever since. That's was probably in 1995 I think.

 

[jlanecr500]

40 cal 300gr copper Hammer @ 3000fps
Devastating. Shot a buck at 245yds, went thru both front shoulders and blew the sternum out the front.

 

[ROVERBOY]

Never had trouble killing with patched ball. About all the deer hunting I ever did was in the woods so it was short range...50 yds +-. My load in the 58 is 82 grains 2fg and a .570 ball. Like a previous poster said it's mostly about shot placement...

I've got an old H&R Huntsman .58 caliber. It shoots good with patched round ball and 90 gr. Triple 7. I've meant to try Goex 2f black in it.

 

[ROVERBOY]

240 grain xtp in a harvester sabot with 90-100 grains triple 7 and you will be golden

I've killed several with 240 gr XTP but, it's been awhile. I started using 350 gr. Maxi-Hunters several years ago. But, the XTP's did good.

 

[PillsburyDoughboy]

I know there has been a lot of other threads regarding bullets, but I can't seem to get what I'm after. I am new to muzzleloading but have hunted and shot my whole life, so I have an understanding of guns. I have an older Knight LK-93 in good shape. My desire is to not use a saboted bullet, and I've seen a few out there like the Thor, Great Plains, Thompson Center MaxiBall, and the Buffalo Arms paper patched bullets. I just want to avoid using the plastic sabots. Anyone have any experience with these bullets or another I should look at?

Congrats on getting a LK93 a true classic.


I would not sweat using sabots. I know a lot of the smokeless guys are hung up on using non saboted full bore bullets and perhaps for good reason. They are shooting alot and at higher speeds. Sabots tend to get soft and push groups from heat at those speeds.

If you are the average deer hunter and have patience sighting a gun in. Let cool down times set in. And clean your gun on a regular basis you will never have plastic build up. Most any load will shoot incredible and go down easy with a sabot. Not so much with full bore bullets.

 

[Joe2Kool]

I have two of the same Knight MLs. Have used plastic sabots for 20+ years with no issue. Early on, I tried various powders and different weight bullets. Weights varying from 180-300. I settled on two 50gr 777 pellets and a 300 grain bullet. It shoots touching bullet holes at 50 and 100 yards with the same aim point. 125 yards is about the limit though. I've shot at paper at 150 and memory says bullet drops about a foot.

Bullets are Hornady SST but I've also shot other 300 gr bullets with similar results. Seems like I was shooting a Thompson bullet until I had trouble finding them.

Regarding pass thru, I don't specifically remember because when I shoot deer with this setup, they fall over dead within sight. In 20+ years, probably killed 20 deer with this setup.

Regarding the lighter bullets such as 180 and 240, they never patterned well, meaning 6 inch groups at 50.

As far as cleaning, I clean it after every range session, which is probably 6-8 shots. Just use the standard black powder cleaner.

I guess that's just a long way of saying I've had very good results with that exact same gun using 300 gr sabots.

Oh, SS and converted to shoot 209 primers

 

[Rem7600]

I'm very anti-sabot. I only shoot full-caliber bullets in my MZs, but that's probably just unnecessary concern. Personally, if I have a 50-caliber gun, I want to shoot a big, heavy 50 caliber bullet I'm sure will go all the way through. No 45-caliber pistol bullets for me!

I've shot a lot of MaxiBalls, but they can be hard to load. I was not pleased with the Thor bullets. Using BP, after the first shot they would not load (fouling from the first shot). If I ever transition to 777, I may rethink that. Also didn't get the accuracy I was hoping for. Have not tried the Buffalo Arms bullets. Great Plains worked fairly well. Currently, I'm shooting the heaviest Powerbelts they make (405 grn). They have proven to be extremely accurate and do not suffer from the break-up-on-impact that plagues their 295s. However, they are extremely hard to find. The company only makes a small batch of them each year and you've got to get them right then as they will sell out quickly. Others I hunt with shoot the 348s, which are a little easier to find.

I'm curious about the round your using, so you get a lot of pass through. I've used the 295 gr powerbelt since they came out and like them accept I don't get an exit. They put them down every time quickly but hard tracking.

 

[CHRIS WILSON]

I'm curious about the round your using, so you get a lot of pass through. I've used the 295 gr powerbelt since they came out and like them accept I don't get an exit. They put them down every time quickly but hard tracking.

I believe he mentioned that he's currently using a 405 gr version Power Belt. They are hard to find but it's a large chunk of lead and a very effective round. I used 410 gr, flat point, Great Plains conical for several seasons with excellent results on deer. Sadly, they don't make that version of their Great plains conical any longer. Big lead may not shoot as flat but it's extremely affect in punching holes in one side and out the other on deer size game.

 

[poorhunter]

I'm very anti-sabot. I only shoot full-caliber bullets in my MZs, but that's probably just unnecessary concern. Personally, if I have a 50-caliber gun, I want to shoot a big, heavy 50 caliber bullet I'm sure will go all the way through. No 45-caliber pistol bullets for me!

I've shot a lot of MaxiBalls, but they can be hard to load. I was not pleased with the Thor bullets. Using BP, after the first shot they would not load (fouling from the first shot). If I ever transition to 777, I may rethink that. Also didn't get the accuracy I was hoping for. Have not tried the Buffalo Arms bullets. Great Plains worked fairly well. Currently, I'm shooting the heaviest Powerbelts they make (405 grn). They have proven to be extremely accurate and do not suffer from the break-up-on-impact that plagues their 295s. However, they are extremely hard to find. The company only makes a small batch of them each year and you've got to get them right then as they will sell out quickly. Others I hunt with shoot the 348s, which are a little easier to find.

Here's another good looking heavy full bore bullet.

https://www.muzzleloading-bullets.com/product/50-caliber-420-grains/

 

[ROVERBOY]

Never had trouble killing with patched ball. About all the deer hunting I ever did was in the woods so it was short range...50 yds +-. My load in the 58 is 82 grains 2fg and a .570 ball. Like a previous poster said it's mostly about shot placement...

Have you ever tried any conical bullets in your .58? I tried some Lee .575 gr. hollow based flat points in mine. The guy I bought the rifle from had them. His father casted them. I couldn't get them to group good. I may have been pushing them too fast. I think I was shooting 90 gr. Tripple 7. More like 60, would've been better.

 

[Wobblyshot1]

Not in this gun as it has a round ball barrel one turn in 66" twist and radius groove rifling. However, I've shot thousands of conicals(minie balls) in my 58 caliber Enfield muskets when I was a regular competitor in the NMLRA matches at Friendship and elsewhere. I shot hollow base minies that weighed over 500 grains. Both the guns I used the most had one in 48" twist and shallow rifling. During the great war (1861-65) the service charge for these guns was 60 to 70 grs black powder. In target shooting I only shot 45/50 grs even out to 200 yards. Rainbow trajectory had to be taken into account for. With all that said, I never hunted with them. Second pic is a bunch of minies l cast for the Enfield.

 

[ROVERBOY]

Nice looking Minies. Have you weighed them to see what they cast at?

 

[Wobblyshot1]

Those are from a Lyman 577611 mold with the base plug modified by shortening it a tad. If I remember correctly they are 530 grains.

 

[PillsburyDoughboy]

I've hunted with the 92 model for years & husband the 93 , Get you a box of Hornady XTP 250 gr bullets 45 cal. Pistol bullet & some Santa's & 90 or 100 grs of Pyrodex pellets. They come in 30 & 50 grains don't worry about plastic fouling. In between cleaning use borebutter

Hornady XTP 45 Cal with the MMP Black Sabots have been Lights out in every Knight I ever owned. 100 Grain of Pyrodex, Black Powder or any of the subs worked just fine. Accuracy was off the scales and deer were all bang flops. Most all of the other MZ I have owned I graduated to the Orange MMP and 300 GR pills but the Knights still use the MMP Black with Hornady XTP 250. It just works.

 

[poorhunter]

Hornady XTP 45 Cal with the MMP Black Sabots have been Lights out in every Knight I ever owned. 100 Grain of Pyrodex, Black Powder or any of the subs worked just fine. Accuracy was off the scales and deer were all bang flops. Most all of the other MZ I have owned I graduated to the Orange MMP and 300 GR pills but the Knights still use the MMP Black with Hornady XTP 250. It just works.

Which of these two or does it matter?

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/dept/muzzleloaders/projectiles?brand=mmp-sabots

 

[ScLowCountry]

Which of these two or does it matter?

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/dept/muzzleloaders/projectiles?brand=mmp-sabots

It just depends on the weight of the bullet

 

[poorhunter]

It just depends on the weight of the bullet

Ahh, I see that now. Thanks

 

[Gravey]

Don't overthink that. I use either 240 grain xtp mags or 240 grain interlocks in our accuras and tc black diamond. Very accurate and effective.

240 grain XTP's for me in my encore. Both accurate and deadly. It's the only thing I've ever used back to my first muzzleloader which was a Knight T-5 Woodsman in the early 90's.

 

[gemihur]

Powerbelts impact like grenades!
Schrapnel collects on far side of animal
Rarely exits. Keep your eyes on the game.
They won't run far, but there'll be no bloodtrail!
I use a 270 gr. Platinum with 80 gr. 777 3F

 

[PillsburyDoughboy]

Which of these two or does it matter?

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/dept/muzzleloaders/projectiles?brand=mmp-sabots

211-50045 The MMP Black Shorts are the only ones I have ever used in my Knights with the .452 250 Grain pills. And they shoot lights out in every Knight I have ever shot. I played around with some other pills and while accuracy might have gotten a little better with this load or that load I needed a load that worked across every Knight I owned so I settled in on this combination. It just works.

 

[PillsburyDoughboy]

https://chuckhawks.com/tony_knight_2009.htm?expand_article=1
I had to dig deep in the archives to find this quote from Tony Knight himself. He preferred Sabots over bore size bullets. I tend to agree with him on this subject. I have had the same great success with the inline market. I think the only way I would tend to stray away from sabots if I were going after something that could eat me or something the size of a ELK. But there are Saboted Bullets in the 300 Grain and 400 Grain Class that are up the task. Especially if you step up to .54 Cal.

RW: Do you prefer sabots or bore sized projectiles?

TK: Saboted bullets, without question. You can get better accuracy, better trajectory, and better downrange terminal performance with sabots than possible with bore-sized slugs. One thing I don't like, though, is the worship of "easy-load" type sabots. It is part of the sport, if you want tight groups your sabot needs to load reasonably tight. We can't expect loose-fitting bullets that rattle down the bore to give repeatable performance. Quite often, they don't.

 

[gemihur]

Don't overthink this
Shoot a bullet that you can hit your target consistently with.
Full bore or saboted, the deer ain't gonna discuss semantics.
I would like my bullet to show a perfect mushroom but I would rather have mushrooms and onions on my venison steaks.
The dang powerbelts ain't gracious about their impact, BUT THEY LEAVE NO SURVIVORS!
Shoot what suits you and your gun and you'll do fine.

 

[PillsburyDoughboy]

Don't overthink this
Shoot a bullet that you can hit your target consistently with.
Full bore or saboted, the deer ain't gonna discuss semantics.
I would like my bullet to show a perfect mushroom but I would rather have mushrooms and onions on my venison steaks.
The dang powerbelts ain't gracious about their impact, BUT THEY LEAVE NO SURVIVORS!
Shoot what suits you and your gun and you'll do fine.

I have some concerns about all the reports of powebelts leaving fragments on the opposite shoulder and no blood trails.

Mind you these are reports from successful harvest. So who am I to
Say WTH ?

But then again I have read reports of loss game from bad powerboat shots.

I have to say I have never lost a deer to a properly.placed saboted Muzzle loader Bullet.

Only marginal sabot came from a .54 cal set up and that was because I did not have the bullet and charge combo set correct. Once I switched out the bullet and weight of charge I was good to go.

 

[gemihur]

I'm a Powerbelt believer. They are super accurate. A poorly placed shot is not the bullet's fault.
I have faith that you can determine when to pull the trigger.

 

[wsm]

X2 on what creek bottom said.

 

[dogsled]

I have found that ,Hornady 44 cal xtp bullets and nosler 44 sporting handgun HP, expand at muzzleloader velocity and give reliable pass through. I buy the pistol bullets in 44 cal and buy my own 50 cal sabots from tc or harvester.

Exactly what I do.

 

[Tweeter]

Try the new powerbelt 330gr, hard hitting and they mushroom!

 

[Soft Talker]

I've got an old H&R Huntsman .58 caliber. It shoots good with patched round ball and 90 gr. Triple 7. I've meant to try Goex 2f black in it.

My old school .58 Huntsman continues to stack them up today, shooting a patched round ball, sitting on 90gr of triple 7.

 

[Soft Talker]

Any of y'all shooting these old Huntsman's notice a difference in accuracy between the screw in breech plug and the older push in plug, with o-ring.

 

[Wobblyshot1]

I would think if the o-ring was damaged or maybe brittle from age that it would definitely effect accuracy because of blow by. H&R changed to a screw in plug when back in the day a fellow dropped the hammer on a loaded one(o-ring)and only got a pop from the cap. He immediately broke open the gun and a slow hang fire happened blowing the breech plug back at the shooter... don't remember if it killed him or if he was just severely injured.