Where did my buck go?

[Andy S.]

Agree 100%. Notice I mentioned "early on" as that was the only time I thought it could truly be called QDM.

 

[DeerCamp]

Most hunters still do not believe just how far rutting bucks can frequently "range" in a 24-hr period. It is commonly over 2 miles in one direction, in one night, putting a buck many properties "off" where multiple hunters may believe that's "their" buck, often with each of these hunters on a different property, not aware other hunters on adjoining property are thinking same.

Then "their" buck gets killed 2 or 3 miles away by someone who had never seen it before, much less had a trail cam pic of the buck some other hunter thought he had "patterned".

If you think about it, these animals sleep short periods of time compared to us and are active in between sleeping, especially at night.

Research shows a deer walks 3-4 mph and trots 10-12mph, full on run can be 25+mph.

We think of "10 miles away" as being far, but in reality this could just be a overnight stroll for a deer at even a slow pace.

 

[DeerCamp]

Exactly. Sadly, I'm not smart enough to figure out why deer do the things they do, but many years of observation have taught me - in ridge-and-hollow terrain - deer prefer to use certain terrain features to move across the landscape. I simply "hunt the odds." I try to get stands up on as many "preferred" terrain features as possible, and then rotate through as many of those different locations as possible over the course of a season. On any given day, I use wind direction and "gut feeling" to choose which stand I will hunt. And by wind direction, I mean I eliminate stand sites for that hunt that would produce the lowest odds of success from that stand. For example, if a stand is located to cover a low spot in a long narrow north-south oriented ridge, I don't want a wind blowing north or south along the ridge-top. That wind direction wouldn't guarantee I wouldn't see a deer from that stand, but it would certainly lower the odds.

In ridge-and-hollow hardwoods, I have NEVER patterned a buck to the point I feel strongly he will walk through a particular location on a particular day. They just aren't that patternable in that habitat/terrain. So I just play the highest odds locations, and try to move around a lot to keep deer from patterning me. Hopefully, if I roll the dice enough, they will eventually come up all sixes.

I have only ever patterned 2 deer to this degree, and both were within a week of bow season opening.

I had pictures of 2 bucks every afternoon between 4:00-4:15 travelling through a funnel. I hunted them one afternoon but realized I was out of bow range so the next day I went in at noon, moved my ladder stand 30 yards closer and waited.
4:20 here they come.

Naturally, I missed. But it was a small victory.

 

[citico_tim]

Anyone who hunts around water knows a deer will swim it in a heartbeat. So swimming doesn't surprise me a bit. Testosterone is a powerful drug.

And I remember a post here years ago about a study done in an enclosed area. They knew the deer in it, had them radio collared, and they allowed hunting, but once a buck hit maturity, it was never seen again. They knew it was there, but no hunter ever saw it.

Lastly, I have a friend who has cameras about 8 miles away, across a 4 lane highway. We get the same buck on our cams here.

 

[Bone Collector]

I'm amazed at how rarely I've shot a buck actually chasing a doe. I've certainly done it, but of all the mature bucks I've killed, only one was actively chasing a doe at the time. I always kill mature bucks when their "cruising" looking for does. Or maybe it's the type of hunting set-ups I choose? Perhaps I choose stand sites that are far more likely to see bucks travelling between doe groups.

honestly me too, I guess the deer is cruising and isn't far behind the doe or is looking for a doe. They seem so focused, that it appears that they just don't care as much.

I always try to hunt terrain funnels. However on my own property, there is no terrain, and only places where does go to eat. I have had luck with bucks following a doe into those, or just cruising through looking. Seems they are not paying as much attention as usual and I have had "bad winds" that have not boogered the hunt.

 

[peytoncreekhunter]

I've witnessed 3 actual chases where the buck was dogging the doe. In all the chases the bucks were very vocal with grunting and a clicking sound.

What surprised me was during the chase the does were ahead of the bucks a good bit and when the does would stop, the bucks would keep running towards them and the does would take off running again and the bucks would stop in the exact spot where the does had stopped. I guess they were scent checking them.... I'm not sure.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

What surprised me was during the chase the does were ahead of the bucks a good bit and when the does would stop, the bucks would keep running towards them and the does would take off running again and the bucks would stop in the exact spot where the does had stopped. I guess they were scent checking them.... I'm not sure.

I've seen this a lot. I compare it to me trying to take my dog out real quick and he will stand there motionless smelling a single blade of grass for several minutes without a movement. Really irritates me, but back to topic, I believe they are just processing the information and letting that sweet smell soak in. It possibly stimulates them

 

[TheLBLman]

Just to add to some observed differences in trying to kill a buck "dogging" a doe vs. a buck roaming looking for a doe . . . . . . .

Once a buck is actually with or really close to an estrous doe, it is commonly challenging to get a good high-probability shot. Often, an older buck will flat out run from Point A to Point B, and when standing motionless, is not standing in a good place for you to get that good shot. Then he suddenly bolts running, which is very different travel behavior to their norm of pretty steady walk, stop, walk.

Add to this that a buck "dogging" a doe will often "cut the diagonal" in that they take visual shortcuts. Many times, I've had a hot doe come by, with a buck (sometimes several) only 50 to 100 yards behind her. The doe is often following a trail or terrain feature. So she comes by, offering that perfect shot, anticipation is high, the buck will come right along behind her.

But instead, she has meandered a little left or right, and suddenly the buck takes off running straight toward her, NOT following her trail, but just running towards where he now sees her. Next thing you know, all disappears out of sight, although you may still hear running deer in the distance.

It is typically much easier to get a good shot on a roaming buck than a buck that's already found an estrous doe.

Sometimes the reverse is true, as one of the better mature bucks I once killed was bedded beside "his" estrous doe. Yes, I shot him bedded, saw them before they saw me. But that is very rare. Ironically, I had been on stand since over an hour before dawn, around 25 ft high in a climber, and I neither heard nor saw those deer come in and bed only 45 yards from my tree. Thinking it was around 8:30 am when I just "noticed" this big rack move, then realized it was big buck bedded almost right under me, as was "his" hot doe.

 

[BSK]

A lot of what was taught and pushed 10-15 years ago turned an enjoyable hunting experience into misery IMO.

And that's exactly why I've changed my mind dramatically. Management is a mixture of sound biology balanced against hunter wants and desires. Hunter wants and desires are so important because without hunters enjoying the experience, there would be no one to manage for the biological good. So now I'll err a little bit towards hunter desires over biology. Besides, the white-tailed deer is an amazingly resilient species. Thankfully, they can handle some serious biological mismanagement and come through in pretty good shape.

 

[BSK]

Research shows a deer walks 3-4 mph and trots 10-12mph, full on run can be 25+mph.

We think of "10 miles away" as being far, but in reality this could just be a overnight stroll for a deer at even a slow pace.

I hike at a pace of around 18 minutes per miles and I can cover 10 miles is just over 3 hours.

 

[BSK]

Naturally, I missed. But it was a small victory.

You sound like my kind of bowhunter!

 

[Shed Hunter]

I'm amazed at how rarely I've shot a buck actually chasing a doe. I've certainly done it, but of all the mature bucks I've killed, only one was actively chasing a doe at the time. I always kill mature bucks when their "cruising" looking for does. Or maybe it's the type of hunting set-ups I choose? Perhaps I choose stand sites that are far more likely to see bucks travelling between doe groups.

The majority of my daylight mature buck pictures are captured on scrapes or trails terrain funnels from mid oct to mid november. Almost always simply cruising around

 

[Shed Hunter]

If you think about it, these animals sleep short periods of time compared to us and are active in between sleeping, especially at night.

Research shows a deer walks 3-4 mph and trots 10-12mph, full on run can be 25+mph.

We think of "10 miles away" as being far, but in reality this could just be a overnight stroll for a deer at even a slow pace.

this has always been my opinion on deer travel as well. I've covered some absurd distances while shed hunting and looking for antlers can slow you down on movement. I can't imagine how far a deer could pull off particularly seeking shelter from flooding

 

[BSK]

BSK, I suspect the single biggest issue regarding your not killing more bucks trailing estrous does may have to do with your hunting as much or more in the rut's early stages (when FEW females are in estrous), along with the travel corridors you may more commonly prefer to hunt.

Personally, my hunting including early, peak, and late rut stages near equally, I end up killing about the same number of bucks trailing an estrous doe as I kill just traveling looking for one.

Actually, we hunt all phases of the rut, but what we DON'T do is move our stands away from those early "cruising phase" high-productivity locations as the rut progresses. So what we see is almost exclusively what you find along travel routes between doe groups. If we actually set up on doe groups, our results would probably be quite different.

 

[DeerCamp]

honestly me too, I guess the deer is cruising and isn't far behind the doe or is looking for a doe. They seem so focused, that it appears that they just don't care as much.

I always try to hunt terrain funnels. However on my own property, there is no terrain, and only places where does go to eat. I have had luck with bucks following a doe into those, or just cruising through looking. Seems they are not paying as much attention as usual and I have had "bad winds" that have not boogered the hunt.

I see a decent amount of chasing, but it is almost never mature bucks.

The one exception to this is a property I started hunting that hadn't been hunted in 5+ years.

But as soon as we started hunting it... back to status quo.

 

[Bone Collector]

I see a decent amount of chasing, but it is almost never mature bucks.

The one exception to this is a property I started hunting that hadn't been hunted in 5+ years.

But as soon as we started hunting it... back to status quo.

I missed my target buck last year because I simply chose to sit in one stand vs. another. I did take wind into account on that hunt and the wind worked for either one. I have cell cams out and I was in the stand when it updated. I got 5-6 pics. First 3 were of a doe, then the 4th was him, so was the 5th and then the 6th was her leaving the other direction. They were literally 15 minutes before the update.

He was definitely with her and out in the open in daylight. I actually got a few daytime pics last season of mature deer out cruising. Issue is I was in the wrong stand or at work....

 

[Headhunter]

Well you must smell better than me because if I don't pay attention to where my stinch is going, and it crosses big boy's nose, then I never see him again and that spot is usually dead for days if not weeks. Heck, even when I do everything right, if I hunt the stand too often it quickly drops off from being a good spot to a spot the deer avoid. I guess they can smell not only where I'm at but also where I've been, and they don't like it. I must smell like a stone cold killer!

I would like to know how you know "how to hunt the wind"? How do you know what direction the deer, especially a mature buck will approach from? How do you know where they are going to use? I ask those questions because I stay in the woods every second I can and have for many years, I have hunted the same stand every single time I hunted for long periods, I have jumped from tree to tree, "hunted the wind", I have hunted where I could watch deer trails that looked like a thousand deer an hour were using them, hunted spots where most every singe deer uses the same spot to come into sight, approach from the direction or area, etc. only to set up for the "correct" wind and deer appear and use an area "they are not supposed to", ESPECIALLY a mature buck. When someone can for sure answer those questions, I will consider the wind more, but what I look for more than anything, is a buck that lives in the area that is a buck I would like a chance to kill. Or even better an area that has a multiple nice bucks. Then I hunt, every single chance I get. I have for sure blown way more chances than I want to think about, most of those missed chances had nothing to do with the wind, more to do with I couldn't set for a shot, wasn't paying attention for whatever reason, moved at the wrong time, etc. but rarely when a deer is in sight does the wind screw me. Of course I have no clue how many deer I never see because of being winded, but that is true no matter where you are hunting or how much you pay attention to the wind or think you know better than the deer what they are going to do.

I believe more than the wind, deer pattern hunters, that is why I try my best to hunt where others don't. I have for sure killed a ton of deer where I have been told it wasn't possible. Those spots were not hunted for a variety of reasons but the number 1 reason the spot wasn't hunted had something to do with the wind never being right to hunt that spot or area. No I don't use scents to speak of and I don't go overboard with scent control and the last few years I have used nosejammer a ton, and I believe it helps, well at least helps more than it hurts.

 

[BSK]

I would like to know how you know "how to hunt the wind"? How do you know what direction the deer, especially a mature buck will approach from? How do you know where they are going to use? I ask those questions because I stay in the woods every second I can and have for many years, I have hunted the same stand every single time I hunted for long periods, I have jumped from tree to tree, "hunted the wind", I have hunted where I could watch deer trails that looked like a thousand deer an hour were using them, hunted spots where most every singe deer uses the same spot to come into sight, approach from the direction or area, etc. only to set up for the "correct" wind and deer appear and use an area "they are not supposed to", ESPECIALLY a mature buck. When someone can for sure answer those questions, I will consider the wind more, but what I look for more than anything, is a buck that lives in the area that is a buck I would like a chance to kill. Or even better an area that has a multiple nice bucks. Then I hunt, every single chance I get. I have for sure blown way more chances than I want to think about, most of those missed chances had nothing to do with the wind, more to do with I couldn't set for a shot, wasn't paying attention for whatever reason, moved at the wrong time, etc. but rarely when a deer is in sight does the wind screw me. Of course I have no clue how many deer I never see because of being winded, but that is true no matter where you are hunting or how much you pay attention to the wind or think you know better than the deer what they are going to do.

Headhunter,

I wish I could predict how a target buck is going to walk past me, but I can't. However, I do know how to play the odds. I hunt in an area where terrain is the predominant driver of deer travel patterns. And deer will use terrain in a somewhat predictable fashion. I say "somewhat" because deer will do things that defy the odds. But the critical factor is most of the time they walk along terrain in a certain way. So I play those odds when playing the wind. If most of the time they walk a long a ridge in a certain way, I want to be downwind of that travel line. Now that doesn't mean a deer won't approach from a completely different direction and wind me. That happens. But most of the time it doesn't.

 

[BSK]

I believe more than the wind, deer pattern hunters, that is why I try my best to hunt where others don't.

If I were asked to list what, in my opinion, are the top factors in successfully killing older to mature bucks, I would list "Hunting where no one else has been hunting" as the #1 factor. Absolutely critical, and I go to great lengths to find those locations each year.

 

[Ski]

I would like to know how you know "how to hunt the wind"? How do you know what direction the deer, especially a mature buck will approach from? How do you know where they are going to use?

Nobody can 100% predict where a mature buck is going to move. I'd never pretend to. But where I hunt in deep hollow, steep ridge terrain, the wind most generally is blowing up toward the head of the hollow, regardless of prevailing wind direction above. As it hits the bowl of the hollow it swerves inward until it collides with the wind from the other side, which it then swirls. This is a pretty constant, predictable pattern that can be counted on. In a good storm it can change a bit, but for the most part this is how it works. Other things like low dips in a ridge or a gentle sloped finger ridge change the direction still yet. Regardless, from this baseline I can locate bedding (doe and buck) and travel corridors, and have a pretty darn good idea of the downwind side on the vast majority of days. Having hunted deer a very long time I have noticed that bucks generally cruise the downwind side of doe bedding, food spots, and doe travel corridors. So putting myself there significantly increases my odds of seeing and hopefully shooting one of them. That is what I consider, "hunting the wind".

Thermals are something that have to be considered, too, especially on days when there's not much wind, or cold nights & warm days. It's tricky trying to predict where my stink is going every minute and lots of times I get it wrong. But sometimes I get it exactly right. When I'm wrong I spook deer. When I'm right I tag deer. I remember a time when I didn't know much about any of this stuff yet and I spooked a whole lot of deer, and tagged very few. As I paid attention to my screw ups and learned how not to, I began getting more opportunities and less spooked deer. I still screw up a lot. I'm not a great hunter by any stretch of the imagination. And the deer I hunt don't give second chances. If they smell me once they're gone.