when bucks go missing..

[deerchaser007]

For those of you that get quality whitetails magazine,.. this is a must read. One of the most informative articles i've ever read on mature buck movement from late summer til winter.

Also,.. check out page 49. Were is the bucks ear.....??

 

[Chris Tripp]

yes it was a great read! My only wish is that they did a study in a region like ours and published the findings.... still very informative on northern deer.

 

[ghosthunter]

gonna have to go and get that.

 

[BSK]

Those are some of the researchers I've been working with on my "seasonal shifts" theories.

 

[PickettSFHunter]

great stuff. I see alot of seasonal shift on one of our leases.

 

[BSK]

I can't wait to see the final data from the Auburn GPS-collar study. They are specifically looking at the rut ranges of older bucks from one year to the next. Last number I heard was the average amount of overlap between rut ranges for a single buck from one year to the next is only around 30%, meaning individual bucks don't have much fidelity to the same rutting areas from year to year.

 

[DeerSlayer]

That seems like a good thing to me. We have years where we have more large deer sightings than others. If I thought we were stuck with the same set of smaller bucks year to year, it wouldn't be very exciting.

However, I can think of one thing. If these bucks move from one year to the next, does it really make sense not to harvest a deer because of the size of its antlers? It seems like if you let it go in hopes of seeing it next year, you are possibly wasting your time.

Of course, you did say these were "rut ranges" so I guess it doesn't apply necessarily to deer during non-rut times of the hunting season.

 

[BSK]

DeerSlayer,

Some of these studies do bring into question some aspects of small-land management. And I hate to say it, but my research backs that up. Of the harvestable, manageable bucks on your property during the entire hunting season, a large percentage may not be year-round residents of your property. In fact, during the peak of the rut, it isn't uncommon for more than half of the bucks that are harvestable bucks on the property to not be "residents."

But then the hunter will never really know. Maybe the buck is a resident and maybe he isn't, and passing him may provide you no direct future benefit and maybe it will. I simply prefer to do what I always do and error on the side of caution. Besides, if I don't want to kill that buck, why would I care if he is a resident or not? I simply don't want to kill him.

But I do believe the concept of "letting him walk so you can kill him next year" is questionable. Sometimes it will work. Many times it will not. But as more and more people pass young bucks, everybody in the area benefits.

 

[PickettSFHunter]

So I dont have a good chance of seeing the big 9 i tried to kill last year during November and early december, dang lol I bet hes a 150 now.

 

[dr]

BSK, I understand that bucks can be very unpredictable. But I have also read of hunters killing a big buck that they have hunted, 2 or 3 seasons in a row, in the same area. I still believe some mature bucks like to spend most of their life in a relatively small area if they feel secure.

 

[Chris Tripp]

gonna have to go and get that.

Join QDMA and request the October issue.

 

[BSK]

BSK, I understand that bucks can be very unpredictable. But I have also read of hunters killing a big buck that they have hunted, 2 or 3 seasons in a row, in the same area. I still believe some mature bucks like to spend most of their life in a relatively small area if they feel secure.

Without question, some bucks "stay home" and can be seen/trail-cam photographed year after year. But it is interesting to see how many bucks just "show up" on a property, stay for that season (or just the peak of the rut) and simply disappear, never to be seen again. Now a few actually "just show up" ever year, year after year, and are not a resident, but can be counted on to "be back next year." But to be honest, the percent of "regulars and repeaters" may be under 50% of the bucks using the property in any given year (and I'm talking square mile or less properties).

Now the question is, does this knowledge change my views on the best management practices? Not one iota. I still recommend passing up all bucks below the target age, and harvesting any bucks that meet the age requirement. But to see a particular buck and decide to pass him assuming he will be around next year is an iffy proposition.

 

[Chris Tripp]

agreed

BSK, I understand that bucks can be very unpredictable. But I have also read of hunters killing a big buck that they have hunted, 2 or 3 seasons in a row, in the same area. I still believe some mature bucks like to spend most of their life in a relatively small area if they feel secure.

Without question, some bucks "stay home" and can be seen/trail-cam photographed year after year. But it is interesting to see how many bucks just "show up" on a property, stay for that season (or just the peak of the rut) and simply disappear, never to be seen again. Now a few actually "just show up" ever year, year after year, and are not a resident, but can be counted on to "be back next year." But to be honest, the percent of "regulars and repeaters" may be under 50% of the bucks using the property in any given year (and I'm talking square mile or less properties).

Now the question is, does this knowledge change my views on the best management practices? Not one iota. I still recommend passing up all bucks below the target age, and harvesting any bucks that meet the age requirement. But to see a particular buck and decide to pass him assuming he will be around next year is an iffy proposition.

 

[DeerSlayer]

Same here. The knowledge that they deer may not ever come back around will not affect my hunting. I have passed on quite a number of small bucks and will continue to do so. I don't have the lust to just have to kill something bad enough to shoot the small ones.

 

[BSK]

If I've made a decision not to shoot a particular buck, it is because he doesn't meet my personal requirments as a shooter. I really don't care what happens to him after that. If my neighbor shoots him, then good for my neighbor and I hope he enjoyed the experience. I've never passed a buck because he wasn't big enough, only because he wasn't old enough. Maybe I'll see that buck next year and maybe I won't. And if I don't, then perhaps I'll see a buck old enough that someone else passed up last year.

 

[deerchaser007]

Seriously ,.. whats up with the missing ear on the buck on page 49. Printing error?? Photoshop?? injury maybe?? I've never seen a deer with a missing ear bfore.....

 

[TAS]

Seriously ,.. whats up with the missing ear on the buck on page 49. Printing error?? Photoshop?? injury maybe?? I've never seen a deer with a missing ear bfore.....

:D LOL, I don't know.... dog maybe?? My dad use to shoot the ears of deer that hung out in the fields close to roads with a 22-250. He said piercing their ears would smarten them up so road hunters wouldn't get em.

 

[ghosthunter]

gonna have to go and get that.

Join QDMA and request the October issue.

Guess that explains why they didn't have it on the shelf at Books A Million.

 

[Chris Tripp]

You can join now for $30 dollars a year... or PM me, I can refer you for a discount.

 

[doublelung]

Kinda like catching a big bass in a certain spot in a lake,river or pond and then coming back a year later and catching another one in the same spot. I think big bucks are the same way, if they have everything they need food,water,cover,females and seclusion there will always be a big buck trying to use that area year in and year out.
Good info in the above post.

my 2 cents

DL

 

[AlabamaSwamper]

I can't wait to see the final data from the Auburn GPS-collar study. They are specifically looking at the rut ranges of older bucks from one year to the next. Last number I heard was the average amount of overlap between rut ranges for a single buck from one year to the next is only around 30%, meaning individual bucks don't have much fidelity to the same rutting areas from year to year.

BSK,

TO what extent would a individual property affect these "shifts"?

I guess my main question is Auburn doing studies on several properties over several years or just one property over several years?

Is it possible say...for my property to be different than your's for example? Like...in the way or amount your bucks change ranges?

Would the local food, cover, pressure, herd health, buck:doe ratios be factors in this and if so, would every property not be different?

Or, is it just plain ol nature and deer are gonna do this regardless of where they are?

 

[BSK]

I don't know all of the details of the study design, but from what I've seen of rut-season trail camera data from numerous properties, I think this is normal for the deer world. It's simply amazing how often a particular buck uses a particular property during the rut one year, but never again. Or maybe he skips a year and shows up again the third year. Those types of patterns appear to be the norm rather than the exception for bucks that do shift areas during the rut. Not all do.

 

[AlabamaSwamper]

BSK,

The rut is weird. LOL

I've always wondered, as bucks chase does during that "peak" that as they breed a doe, then they may hit another one that takes him 1/2 mile one way, then he breeds her a day or two later and hits another one which carries him 1/2 mile farther and so on.

THe next year he may hit one at home that takes him the opposite direction and the scenerio repeats again, however, taking him 3 miles the other direction. Then returning home once the estrus does run out.

This being the reason for a "random" shift of areas more than a consistent shift.

 

[BSK]

I think the patterns will be more apparent when the full data is released.

 

[TAKE A CHANCE]

Assuming I wasn't married to my awesome wife....

Just think how far I would chase a lady in rut!!!!! LOL

 

[BSK]

AS,

I think the data will show that it is far more than just bucks chasing does long distance. It will show complete shifts of range for the rut, and those ranges won't overlap much from year to year.

 

[AlabamaSwamper]

Would these be shifts before the actual rut begins. I'm guessing they will be shifting now and staying in that area until the rut is over or do they wait until the rut begins to peak?

Reckon they are like us? lol

We started out at one place like the mall. The next year it was the strip. The next we were at bars and so on. lol

Just being funny I guess. These animals are fascinating creatures to say the least.

 

[TAS]

"These animals are fascinating creatures to say the least."

Ain't that the truth. Do you think the whole shifting while in rut maybe mother natures way of preventing inbreeding?

 

[BSK]

I haven't seen th raw data yet, but I suspect it will be a temporary full shift in range. It may not take them completely off their "normal range" but a destinct shift in areas they are using, and it will last for a month or so.

 

[BSK]

"These animals are fascinating creatures to say the least."

Ain't that the truth. Do you think the whole shifting while in rut maybe mother natures way of preventing inbreeding?

Many deer behaviors may have started as methods for reducing inbreeding, yet those behaviors now serve a completely different purpose. Whitetailed deer appear to have many if not most of their unique social behaviors wrapped into producing maximum localized genetic diversity. That may be a species survival mechanism. Every localized population has such diverse genetics, no matter what environmental infuence they are faced with, some individuals will likely have an "accidental" adaptation for surviving and prospering under those conditions.