Whats everyone doing?

[buckaroo]

Im clearing around foodplots, and fruit trees, cutting and stacking cedars, liming fields and trees

 

[JCDEERMAN]

Scouting primarily. We have a logging operation starting as soon as it dries up. Clearing almost 20 acres for new food plots, and also about 40 acres of select cut that will be burned every 2-3 years. Will start to create fire breaks for 4 areas in the next couple months and will burn them when appropriate (before mid-April).

 

[BSK]

Realizing none of the hunters in my family are getting any younger, and anything we want to do habitat-wise that we get to see full benefit from needs to be done NOW, we're having a pretty heavy timber cut done on 1/5th of our entire property. In addition, hardwood value is sky-high right now. In the old growth sections (80-90 year-old timber), just about everything is being cut (because it's all marketable). In the younger growth hardwoods (40 years old), probably a 30-40% thinning.

Hope to expand our food plots considerably (to near 10 acres instead of the current 5). And I can't believe I'm saying this as I swore I would never do it again, but looking at planting sections of the clear-cut areas back in pines.

 

[PickettSFHunter]

I'm got some liming and frost seeding to do. I've done some TSI already and have more to do. I still take care of my orchards even though it's pointless anymore. I plan to plant about 100 sawtooth oaks at the farm to break up a field alittle. I've got a big access project to do after the dump truck destroyed one of my entrances to one property. Not habitat related but also plan to get started on a cabin spot after the road is repaired. I will need to do a few burns this year also on spots that I burn every other year.

 

[DoubleRidge]

TSI project including hack-n-squirt wrapped up last year.....now I'm focusing on two areas of old cedar thicket.....one is 14 acre with the other around 3 acre....trying to decide best options...been talking with our Forester..... hoping to Ag lime food plots soon....tried to get big truck in there last year and they were all booked up on big hay fields and we're not interested in my 8 or 9 acres of food plots... lol....so we did Pelletized lime best we could with rented buggy.....had plans last year for four new shooting houses and lumber prices stopped that project....we completed two of them....hope to do the other two this year....was gifted some sawtooth oak acorns...hope to get them started.... Would like to buy some chestnut and get them going as well....then the normal bush hogging and planting warm season plots......we have some old rotten shooting houses that are coming down this weekend..... always something to work on.

 

[DoubleRidge]

I'm got some liming and frost seeding to do. I've done some TSI already and have more to do. I still take care of my orchards even though it's pointless anymore. I plan to plant about 100 sawtooth oaks at the farm to break up a field alittle. I've got a big access project to do after the dump truck destroyed one of my entrances to one property. Not habitat related but also plan to get started on a cabin spot after the road is repaired. I will need to do a few burns this year also on spots that I burn every other year.

We did an "entrance project" last year....had to take the old single gate down for the timber harvest project with big trucks coming in and out..... had them rework entrance....widened it....we went back with double gates and plank to each side....went ahead and set gates back off road where I can pull in with gooseneck trailer and get off of the main road.....love it..... before I was parking on side of main road and unloading tractor, etc....much better now.

 

[Popcorn]

Hard thinning of approx150 acres of large pine for warm season grasses and forbs, clear cutting another 50 acres to plant native grasses .
Thinning another 50 acres of hardwoods that have canopied over to produce browse and forbs.
Starting to prove firebreaks before burning approx 500 acres scattered all about the farms .
Preparing to order spring seed for plots and will soon frost seed a couple clover plots established last year to fill in and strengthen the stand.
about to clear cut 20 acre overgrown sanctuary to return it to its previous glory of grasses and cover.
then to thin about 100 acres of too slow growth pine that wont make pulpwood to generate tons of browse and acres of cover with grasses and forbs. If everything goes well, ill finish just in time to plant in April.

 

[buckaroo]

Realizing none of the hunters in my family are getting any younger, and anything we want to do habitat-wise that we get to see full benefit from needs to be done NOW, we're having a pretty heavy timber cut done on 1/5th of our entire property. In addition, hardwood value is sky-high right now. In the old growth sections (80-90 year-old timber), just about everything is being cut (because it's all marketable). In the younger growth hardwoods (40 years old), probably a 30-40% thinning.

Hope to expand our food plots considerably (to near 10 acres instead of the current 5). And I can't believe I'm saying this as I swore I would never do it again, but looking at planting sections of the clear-cut areas back in pines.

Pines? I'm clearing out 2 acres of cedars, thinking they arent much benefit, going to keep half acre of them for the birds

 

[buckaroo]

I'm got some liming and frost seeding to do. I've done some TSI already and have more to do. I still take care of my orchards even though it's pointless anymore. I plan to plant about 100 sawtooth oaks at the farm to break up a field alittle. I've got a big access project to do after the dump truck destroyed one of my entrances to one property. Not habitat related but also plan to get started on a cabin spot after the road is repaired. I will need to do a few burns this year also on spots that I burn every other year.

Why is the orchard pointless? I have 125 apple trees

 

[buckaroo]

Hard thinning of approx150 acres of large pine for warm season grasses and forbs, clear cutting another 50 acres to plant native grasses .
Thinning another 50 acres of hardwoods that have canopied over to produce browse and forbs.
Starting to prove firebreaks before burning approx 500 acres scattered all about the farms .
Preparing to order spring seed for plots and will soon frost seed a couple clover plots established last year to fill in and strengthen the stand.
about to clear cut 20 acre overgrown sanctuary to return it to its previous glory of grasses and cover.
then to thin about 100 acres of too slow growth pine that wont make pulpwood to generate tons of browse and acres of cover with grasses and forbs. If everything goes well, ill finish just in time to plant in April.

You have a lot of work! Hope your retired

 

[DoubleRidge]

Pines? I'm clearing out 2 acres of cedars, thinking they arent much benefit, going to keep half acre of them for the birds

I'm struggling with two areas on our place that are cedars....one large area and one smaller area.....these cedars are old and all the bottom limbs are dead up 6 foot high...wide open in this thicket....other trees in area are dogwood and a random poplar....but ground is shaded out with nothing much of benefit growing....wanting to open it up...or at least portions of it....to allow sunlight in.....just struggling with best route to take to get it done.

 

[PickettSFHunter]

Why is the orchard pointless? I have 125 apple trees

I started with several hundred. We didn't have bears everywhere at the time. Now we have bears everywhere. Bears don't let the fruit get ripe. They tend to rip all of the limbs off and break the trees down as early as June. A deer doesn't have a prayer of getting an apple or pear or persimmon or anything here.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

Hard thinning of approx150 acres of large pine for warm season grasses and forbs, clear cutting another 50 acres to plant native grasses.

I'm curious, and I'm sure there's a purpose, but what's the reason for planting native grasses versus burning and promoting it? Fire stimulates decades-old seed beds of native grasses and forbs (which I'm sure you know)

 

[buckaroo]

I'm struggling with two areas on our place that are cedars....one large area and one smaller area.....these cedars are old and all the bottom limbs are dead up 6 foot high...wide open in this thicket....other trees in area are dogwood and a random poplar....but ground is shaded out with nothing much of benefit growing....wanting to open it up...or at least portions of it....to allow sunlight in.....just struggling with best route to take to get it done.

I've worked on my for 7 yrs, but looking back a dozer would have been the easiest

 

[megalomaniac]

Waiting till early summer for my new property to dry out.

Next summer, bringing in a forestry mulcher to double the size of the new plot i dozed in, create travel lanes through the jungle for deer to access the new plot, and get the beans/ sorgham in. Keep chipping away at the privet with hack and squirt and basal bark spraying.

On another farm, going to spend the $$$ amending the soil and putting in a 2ac plot.

 

[Popcorn]

You have a lot of work! Hope your retired

Its my full time job. I also have contracted and oversee a logger for hardwoods select cuts and another larger logging operation for pine for posts and pulp otherwise I couldnt get all this done.

 

[Popcorn]

I've worked on my for 7 yrs, but looking back a dozer would have been the easiest

about to clear 20 acres similar ground. Dozer would be easy but will leave a mess of rough ground unless you are disking nd planting. I dont want to deal with that and the seed bank stored there. I will cut and pile with a tractor in windrows that will burn next year and hope for a return of the natives that thrived here before. Warm season grasses and forbs, cover and browse.

 

[BSK]

Pines? I'm clearing out 2 acres of cedars, thinking they arent much benefit, going to keep half acre of them for the birds

In a purely hardwood environment, thick evergreens, such as younger pines or cedars thickets, are Mana from Heaven to deer. They use them extensively as cover and during cold, wet weather. However, as pines and cedars mature, the quality of the cover they provide diminishes.

 

[Popcorn]

I'm curious, and I'm sure there's a purpose, but what's the reason for planting native grasses versus burning and promoting it? Fire stimulates decades-old seed beds of native grasses and forbs (which I'm sure you know)

You are absolutely correct and with time might work on this property but This ground was part of a commercial pine property and has had generations of pines raised and harvested then they bulldozed and bogged before replant. This was some of the poorest soil I have ever worked with when I built plots in it and now we are clearing around the plots to create cover, security and native browse, will also have to burn, doze and bog to make it manageable and the owner wants to insure a good stand hopefully sooner rather than later. It takes seeded warm season grasses 3 years to establish (Sleep, creep and leap) are what some call it. On grossly abused and poorly managed soils hoping for the seedbank to deliver can be a long wait. We are hoping for the process you mentioned to work over most of the thinning ground.

 

[wildlifefarmer]

Waiting till early summer for my new property to dry out.

Next summer, bringing in a forestry mulcher to double the size of the new plot i dozed in, create travel lanes through the jungle for deer to access the new plot, and get the beans/ sorgham in. Keep chipping away at the privet with hack and squirt and basal bark spraying.

On another farm, going to spend the $$$ amending the soil and putting in a 2ac plot.

I've been testing small areas using a forestry mulcher. Early summer mulching had a postive response, early fall mulching for firebreaks are looking on the plus side so far. We are just starting winter mulching. What kind of results have you had and what time of the year did you do the mulching?

 

[buckaroo]

In a purely hardwood environment, thick evergreens, such as younger pines or cedars thickets, are Mana from Heaven to deer. They use them extensively as cover and during cold, wet weather. However, as pines and cedars mature, the quality of the cover they provide diminishes.

Yes, mine are 30 ft

 

[buckaroo]

about to clear 20 acres similar ground. Dozer would be easy but will leave a mess of rough ground unless you are disking nd planting. I dont want to deal with that and the seed bank stored there. I will cut and pile with a tractor in windrows that will burn next year and hope for a return of the natives that thrived here before. Warm season grasses and forbs, cover and browse.

Thats pretty much what I did, its an awesome workout

 

[DoubleRidge]

In a purely hardwood environment, thick evergreens, such as younger pines or cedars thickets, are Mana from Heaven to deer. They use them extensively as cover and during cold, wet weather. However, as pines and cedars mature, the quality of the cover they provide diminishes.

The cedar areas I'm wanting to improve have diminished....when I was a kid it was an excellent cover area with low limbs on the cedars..... today all the low limbs are dead 6 foot off the ground.....the size of these two areas (14 acre & 3 acre) realistically prevents me from doing the project myself (and ever making any progress) So I'm struggling what to do?
My goal or hope is to thicken these areas and return it to the sanctuary ground it once was....food plot ground isn't the goal....this area also consist of dogwood and a few poplar but I'd guess it's 85% old large cedar......so hire it out and cut all of the cedars? Or cut portions of them in sections? Cut and leave tops laying? Mulch? Sorry to have so many questions but these two areas have me searching for the best route to take.....open too any suggestions.

 

[buckaroo]

In a purely hardwood environment, thick evergreens, such as younger pines or cedars thickets, are Mana from Heaven to deer. They use them extensively as cover and during cold, wet weather. However, as pines and cedars mature, the quality of the cover they provide diminishes.

My problem when I do cut out, winged elm, sweetgum, poplar, sawbriar, trumpet vine, and just crap comes up

 

[DoubleRidge]

In a purely hardwood environment, thick evergreens, such as younger pines or cedars thickets, are Mana from Heaven to deer. They use them extensively as cover and during cold, wet weather. However, as pines and cedars mature, the quality of the cover they provide diminishes.

While reading this post the word that comes to my mind is "diversity" ....our Forester pounded that word into my head while discussing land & wildlife management.....our place was majority mature hardwood with some "old field growth"....a young pine stand or young cedar thicket (that provides cover) would bring great diversity (and edge) to a pure stand of hardwood.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

You are absolutely correct and with time might work on this property but This ground was part of a commercial pine property and has had generations of pines raised and harvested then they bulldozed and bogged before replant. This was some of the poorest soil I have ever worked with when I built plots in it and now we are clearing around the plots to create cover, security and native browse, will also have to burn, doze and bog to make it manageable and the owner wants to insure a good stand hopefully sooner rather than later. It takes seeded warm season grasses 3 years to establish (Sleep, creep and leap) are what some call it. On grossly abused and poorly managed soils hoping for the seedbank to deliver can be a long wait. We are hoping for the process you mentioned to work over most of the thinning ground.

Makes sense. The places I've looked, that seed is very high. Are you having a conservation group come in to do the work? If you've found a place to get the seed somewhat affordable, I'd love to know where from.

 

[megalomaniac]

I've been testing small areas using a forestry mulcher. Early summer mulching had a postive response, early fall mulching for firebreaks are looking on the plus side so far. We are just starting winter mulching. What kind of results have you had and what time of the year did you do the mulching?

I reclaimed an old 5 acre field filled with 3-7 inch diameter trash trees (mostly hackberry) 3rd week of August. They did a great job back mulching, but due to the density of the stand of trash timber, the amount of fresh mulch might have impacted my ability to replant immediately, so I raked and burned a lot of the surface mulch. 2 weeks after mulching, raking, then burning, I no till drilled in wheat, radishes, and clover. The following spring, I got 2.2 6ft bales per acre off that field. This winter's field is even better, I'm expecting well over 3 bales per acre next spring.

another overgrown small field I had mulched as well (overgrown with the same trash and same density), but did not have them spend as much time back mulching, nor did I rake and burn the mulch. I literally broadcast crimson clover and turnips while they were mulching. I got a decent stand on that foodplot, but the soil was so devoid of lime and nutrients, it really didn't start to shine until this year (it has taken me over a year to get the pH up). It looks incredible this year, and the deer have been hammering it.

We haven't had much competition from weeds or regrowth, but we've used a ton of herbicide since then.

 

[BSK]

While reading this post the word that comes to my mind is "diversity" ....our Forester pounded that word into my head while discussing land & wildlife management.....our place was majority mature hardwood with some "old field growth"....a young pine stand or young cedar thicket (that provides cover) would bring great diversity (and edge) to a pure stand of hardwood.

Habitat diversity is a key factor in deer usage of an area. Years ago, I used to give a lecture at deer hunting/management symposiums on how critical habitat diversity was for hunting success. I'll have to go back and see if I can find some of the graphics from that talk.

As some background, I got involved in deer management because of my background working with the U.S. Census Bureau on Geographic Information Systems (GIS) and "spatial statistics." GIS is a digital mapping system that has data linked to the features in the map. Spatial statistics is statistical analysis based on how geographically related the data is (data collected from locations close together will be more related than data collected from locations farther apart). Spatial statistics has a lot of relevance in deer management. In essence, statistical analysis of data from your neighbor's property has far more relevance to your property than data collected from two counties away. Spatial statistics provides a numerical means of accounting for that relevance. Basically, it provides a way of giving more statistical "weight" to data collected closer geographically than data collected farther away.

As most know, I require anyone hunting my property to collect extremely detailed observation data while hunting. I even have every stand location used for more than 20 years marked with highly accurate GPS (sub-meter accuracy). I've also had a GIS map of the property's habitat for every year since the late 1990s. Because I can link a hunter's observation data to a geographic location, I can spatially analyze that data against just about any factor that is also geographic. On a lark, I looked at every stand location and measured the habitat diversity in that location for that year (counted the number of different habitat types within 100-yard radius circle of the stand), and then compared that to the hunter's observations. Spatially analyzing years and years of hunter-collected observation data against each locations habitat diversity value, I found a near perfect linear regression. In essence, hunters' deer observations rates were almost perfectly associated with how diverse the habitat was around their stands. The higher the habitat diversity, the more deer they saw while hunting. However, there was one caveat to that. In bumper acorn years, sighting rates could be very high from stands in non-diverse locations that were all oaks. But outside of that one caveat, and especially in poorer acorn production years, habitat diverse was THE key to seeing the most deer from a particular stand location.

 

[DoubleRidge]

Habitat diversity is a key factor in deer usage of an area. Years ago, I used to give a lecture at deer hunting/management symposiums on how critical habitat diversity was for hunting success. I'll have to go back and see if I can find some of the graphics from that talk.

As some background, I got involved in deer management because of my background working with the U.S. Census Bureau on Geographic Information Systems (GIS) and "spatial statistics." GIS is a digital mapping system that has data linked to the features in the map. Spatial statistics is statistical analysis based on how geographically related the data is (data collected from locations close together will be more related than data collected from locations farther apart). Spatial statistics has a lot of relevance in deer management. In essence, statistical analysis of data from your neighbor's property has far more relevance to your property than data collected from two counties away. Spatial statistics provides a numerical means of accounting for that relevance. Basically, it provides a way of giving more statistical "weight" to data collected closer geographically than data collected farther away.

As most know, I require anyone hunting my property to collect extremely detailed observation data while hunting. I even have every stand location used for more than 20 years marked with highly accurate GPS (sub-meter accuracy). I've also had a GIS map of the property's habitat for every year since the late 1990s. Because I can link a hunter's observation data to a geographic location, I can spatially analyze that data against just about any factor that is also geographic. On a lark, I looked at every stand location and measured the habitat diversity in that location for that year (counted the number of different habitat types within 100-yard radius circle of the stand), and then compared that to the hunter's observations. Spatially analyzing years and years of hunter-collected observation data against each locations habitat diversity value, I found a near perfect linear regression. In essence, hunters' deer observations rates were almost perfectly associated with how diverse the habitat was around their stands. The higher the habitat diversity, the more deer they saw while hunting. However, there was one caveat to that. In bumper acorn years, sighting rates could be very high from stands in non-diverse locations that were all oaks. But outside of that one caveat, and especially in poorer acorn production years, habitat diverse was THE key to seeing the most deer from a particular stand location.

Fascinating information and explanation!! THANK YOU for sharing!! Appreciate it!!

 

[BSK]

DoubleRidge,

For years after discovering that link, I worked on trying to "tease out" statistically which habitat types were the most powerful in drawing deer. But after many frustrating unsuccessful attempts, I finally realized that habitat "value" changes year to year, depending on the local deer population's "need" for that habitat type and the rarity of that habitat type. As a simple example, in a bumper acorn year, deer have much less "need" for food plots than they do in an acorn failure year. And food plots have much more drawing power if food plots are rare in the area. Need and scarcity...