What do you consider unethical or not fair chase?

[fairchaser]

I've been asking myself these questions lately and put together a short list of things that maybe questionable or things I just don't like.

1. Scouting from the check station. Hunters that hang around the check station to gain intel on local bucks. Find your own bucks!
2. Using cell cameras to time "when" to hunt a spot. Isn't this like live surveillance? Maybe it's no different than a regular camera but seems different when used that way. Nothing wrong with using cell cameras by the way.
3. Scouting with drones. Not so prevalent now but soon to be.
4. Driving around to find out where someone is parking to get on the backside of a deer he's hunting. I know this is done a lot.
5. When someone shares a picture of a good buck and you try to figure out where the picture was taken so you can hunt there when he's gone.

I've probably been guilty of some of these myself. It's easy to let some of these slip into your thinking when looking for that one great buck.
These are just a few, but please share more or tell me what you think.

 

[yellalinehunter]

When they have a tag in their ear

 

[Savage]

The drone thing is already illegal, I believe.

 

[Snake]

Alot of the things you put down are legal but may infringe on the line of being not unethical but I'd call common courtesy. I've used people to push deer to me on public land before so I really don't think that's unethical . As far as trying to infringe upon others " spots " I don't do that but have had it happen to me .... not illegal by no means and not unethical but common courtesy to your fellow hunter means something from which some don't have .

 

[CBU93]

Is it anymore unethical to use contrasting tactics to confuse or mislead other hunters by using similar tactics when we are the hunter on the good deer?

 

[fairchaser]

Is it anymore unethical to use contrasting tactics to confuse or mislead other hunters by using similar tactics when we are the hunter on the good deer?

I see where you are going. It's not unethical to disguise your whereabouts as to not attract attention. I know a hunter who parked in a distant spot to throw off other hunters. To me that's their problem.

 

[rifle02]

Only 2 of those raise a red flag with me. The cell camera and the drone. I've known a person to sit on the couch until notified that a buck was in the pasture a few hundred yards behind the house. Snuck up on the tractor road to shoot it.

 

[Ski]

Ethics is a fickle word. It means different things to different people and I'm never surprised by people's ability for self justification.

True fair chase is hunting naked and killing deer with your bare hands. Anything beyond that involves human advantage. However much advantage can be agreed upon by the masses becomes regulation, and anything more than that is illegal or unethical. And it's ever changing. Case in point next year we can bait. Up to present it was illegal and unethical. So where does a hunting society draw the line? In my lifetime I've never seen it. We just keep making it easier and easier and easier, finding ways to justify the need. Fair chase died long ago.

 

[7mmWSM]

Corn piles

 

[buckbstr_1]

Hunting on property where no hunting is available. Like the dude in Lauderdale county at Fort Pillow. I know of some bucks that were killed legally from that area and they are very nice.

 

[Outdoor Enthusiast]

I suspect drones are used much more than I am aware of.

I don't know much about the range of drones, but I could see that being used very unethically

 

[Ski]

I suspect drones are used much more than I am aware of.

I don't know much about the range of drones, but I could see that being used very unethically

I'd guess thermal scopes at night is another one happening much more than one might think. It's a fast growing issue in OH where baiting is legal. I fear the same here once bait is legal.

 

[Outdoor Enthusiast]

I'd guess thermal scopes at night is another one happening much more than one might think. It's a fast growing issue in OH where baiting is legal. I fear the same here once bait is legal.

Ah yes.

Bait, instant photo notification via cell cams, and thermal scopes.

That's technology that definitely allows for lots of misuse.

 

[themanpcl]

I've been asking myself these questions lately and put together a short list of things that maybe questionable or things I just don't like.

1. Scouting from the check station. Hunters that hang around the check station to gain intel on local bucks. Find your own bucks!
2. Using cell cameras to time "when" to hunt a spot. Isn't this like live surveillance? Maybe it's no different than a regular camera but seems different when used that way. Nothing wrong with using cell cameras by the way.
3. Scouting with drones. Not so prevalent now but soon to be.
4. Driving around to find out where someone is parking to get on the backside of a deer he's hunting. I know this is done a lot.
5. When someone shares a picture of a good buck and you try to figure out where the picture was taken so you can hunt there when he's gone.

I've probably been guilty of some of these myself. It's easy to let some of these slip into your thinking when looking for that one great buck.
These are just a few, but please share more or tell me what you think.

lol, for 1), is there even a "check station" anymore? but I remember them well and that did occur. Those were fun days waiting to see what everyone killed. Guys would trespass on you if they found the area you hunted in if you brought in a good buck. as far as 2) cell cams, i use them if i have a lease but i don't "hunt" the cams if that makes sense. I hunt when/where I hunt and not where the cam goes off no matter how big the buck is. I have changed my hunting plan at the time i arrive when I get a buck pic if I planned to hunt that area that day, i hunt a different area. 3) drones, not a fan of in-season scouting that way. 4) road hunting, illegal and trespassing, illegal. kinda goes with 1. 5) kinda goes with 1&4. for me, the one thing I won't do is bait. for me that's the line i draw. whether it becomes legal or not, i won't. also i won't shoot a buck if i'm not hunting ie if i'm on my out of the stand to the car and i see one in the field lets say, i'm not shooting. doe? she goes to the freezer or H for H. I also won't hunt in a shootin house or a ground blind. i know..."but you use a tree stand and saddle"...lol... i just don;t feel it's sporting enough for me. i wont use ozone devices. I won;t use decoys.. For me, the kill is about the how it happened and not the what happened. i have a story for each kill and can recount all of my kills. none of the stories started with "he was at the corn pile" or "i paused the ipad and put my coffee down in my heated shooting condo and moved my gun on the tripod"....

 

[Boll Weevil]

Years ago I had a fellow try to tell me hunting inside a high fence was no different than hunting on an island. My response was the deer got on the island...and they can get off. I lived in TX for a number of years and never once deer hunted. Shooting deer in a pen over corn in the roads just has zero appeal (to me).

 

[maclet24]

I try not to get to judgey on the way that people want to harvest deer. I've for sure judged people for their approach in a very nose up kind of way before, and even as much as I love deer hunting... It doesn't really matter a whole lot in the end. Hunting deer is a hobby at the end of the day. People are only short changing their own experience by pushing the boundaries. Watching people fudge their scores in a casual round of golf has made me feel the same way. I just tend to get to intense about things.

Short of people just breaking the law I really just try to enjoy my own experience, and let people enjoy theirs.
Fair chase is a hard thing to nail down. There definitely feels like differences between different methods to get to the end result, but they aren't always super clear to me what differences makes one method over another acceptable.

What is the difference sitting over a 5 acre food plot in a enclosed blind with a heater and windows vs sitting in your sun room looking at your pasture waiting for a deer to walk through?
What is the difference between having 100 cameras out monitoring every movement over a large area vs flying a drone out?
Is there a meaningful difference in terms of fair chase between a corn pile, and a food plot?
At what point does the effective distance, and area you are lethal cease being fair chase between modern rifles, crossbows, compound bows, and old school long bows?
Is there a difference between a deer drive with people vs using dogs vs hunting the back entrance of an area from other hunters vs even chasing deer towards you with a drone lol.
Even the differences between owning large tracts of land that are highly managed vs outfitted hunts on large tracts of highly managed land vs high fenced hunting the differences seem to be less about the hunt and more about the work.

Every single one of these things FEELS massively different to me, but in terms of fair chase... I think from the deer's perspective it's all the same more or less.
From my perspective the amount of suffering, work, time, effort makes a big difference in the experience and the value of the trophy regardless of size.

 

[Stalkhunter]

I've been asking myself these questions lately and put together a short list of things that maybe questionable or things I just don't like.

1. Scouting from the check station. Hunters that hang around the check station to gain intel on local bucks. Find your own bucks!
2. Using cell cameras to time "when" to hunt a spot. Isn't this like live surveillance? Maybe it's no different than a regular camera but seems different when used that way. Nothing wrong with using cell cameras by the way.
3. Scouting with drones. Not so prevalent now but soon to be.
4. Driving around to find out where someone is parking to get on the backside of a deer he's hunting. I know this is done a lot.
5. When someone shares a picture of a good buck and you try to figure out where the picture was taken so you can hunt there when he's gone.

I've probably been guilty of some of these myself. It's easy to let some of these slip into your thinking when looking for that one great buck.
These are just a few, but please share more or tell me what you think.

I can't say I have done this I have trail cams. Mine are just to tell me what might be in the area. I just now bought a cell one. My property are to far away to pull cards all the time.

 

[AT Hiker]

Over time my personal ethics and what I consider fair chase has become more strict.
Teaching my daughter, who is a new hunter, has really made me realize how important growing as a modern hunter is.

When someone has success and their ethics are nowhere near close to mine or if they are so far away from what I consider fair chase then so be it. Im usually not impressed, nor should someone expect me to be impressed so it's a moot point as I'm not out to impress anyone else but myself. I have a hard time believing someone is happy with themselves when they snoop to obviously low practices, all I can hope for is they learn and grow.
I hunt for the food and antlers but it's the experience that drives me. I simply cannot get that experience by lowering my standards of what I deem ethical or fair chase. How do I know? Because the few times lately that I've let my ethos slip, I didn't feel like I got the full experience I was after.

 

[ImThere]

I don't see 4 as a problem. It's how you hunt public land. You hunt where others aren't which usually means your on the backside of somebody else intentionally or not.

 

[Ski]

I hunt for the food and antlers but it's the experience that drives me. I simply cannot get that experience by lowering my standards of what I deem ethical or fair chase.

That's me exactly. I don't need accolades nor the affirmation of others so most times nobody but my closest family know what I kill. I love the process of the hunt and I love killing an old monster.....the right way. It feels good but it's my accomplishment, not the world's. If I were to in any way in my mind cheat, it would rob me of that sense of accomplishment.

 

[Planking]

Riding around in a vehicle looking for what you want to kill during the damn season. The White Ford Platinum truck with the custom wheels was doing that at 6:30 am this morning. Windows down, blaze orange on, creeping for a drive by shooting. One of the most common forms of hunting in the volunteer state. Same guy got a cussing during turkey season. Full camo and had his shotgun at the ready on his console when I pulled up between him and the birds trying to cross the road. He turned around before he got to my property this morning but he's still a road hunting piece of yugo. They let them do that day and night until they see them shoot. Which is rare.

 

[themanpcl]

I don't see 4 as a problem. It's how you hunt public land. You hunt where others aren't which usually means your on the backside of somebody else intentionally or not.

wasn't thinking of public but agree, you go where others aren't. per any other hunter, you'll always be in "their spot"...lol

 

[themanpcl]

this^^^^

 

[Griswold]

Riding around in a vehicle looking for what you want to kill during the damn season. The White Ford Platinum truck with the custom wheels was doing that at 6:30 am this morning. Windows down, blaze orange on, creeping for a drive by shooting. One of the most common forms of hunting in the volunteer state. Same guy got a cussing during turkey season. Full camo and had his shotgun at the ready on his console when I pulled up between him and the birds trying to cross the road. He turned around before he got to my property this morning but he's still a road hunting piece of yugo. They let them do that day and night until they see them shoot. Which is rare.

For the millionth time, we know, we know, bless your heart we know

 

[fairchaser]

lol, for 1), is there even a "check station" anymore? but I remember them well and that did occur. Those were fun days waiting to see what everyone killed. Guys would trespass on you if they found the area you hunted in if you brought in a good buck. as far as 2) cell cams, i use them if i have a lease but i don't "hunt" the cams if that makes sense. I hunt when/where I hunt and not where the cam goes off no matter how big the buck is. I have changed my hunting plan at the time i arrive when I get a buck pic if I planned to hunt that area that day, i hunt a different area. 3) drones, not a fan of in-season scouting that way. 4) road hunting, illegal and trespassing, illegal. kinda goes with 1. 5) kinda goes with 1&4. for me, the one thing I won't do is bait. for me that's the line i draw. whether it becomes legal or not, i won't. also i won't shoot a buck if i'm not hunting ie if i'm on my out of the stand to the car and i see one in the field lets say, i'm not shooting. doe? she goes to the freezer or H for H. I also won't hunt in a shootin house or a ground blind. i know..."but you use a tree stand and saddle"...lol... i just don;t feel it's sporting enough for me. i wont use ozone devices. I won;t use decoys.. For me, the kill is about the how it happened and not the what happened. i have a story for each kill and can recount all of my kills. none of the stories started with "he was at the corn pile" or "i paused the ipad and put my coffee down in my heated shooting condo and moved my gun on the tripod"....

I admire your integrity themanpcl.

 

[fairchaser]

I try not to get to judgey on the way that people want to harvest deer. I've for sure judged people for their approach in a very nose up kind of way before, and even as much as I love deer hunting... It doesn't really matter a whole lot in the end. Hunting deer is a hobby at the end of the day. People are only short changing their own experience by pushing the boundaries. Watching people fudge their scores in a casual round of golf has made me feel the same way. I just tend to get to intense about things.

Short of people just breaking the law I really just try to enjoy my own experience, and let people enjoy theirs.
Fair chase is a hard thing to nail down. There definitely feels like differences between different methods to get to the end result, but they aren't always super clear to me what differences makes one method over another acceptable.

What is the difference sitting over a 5 acre food plot in a enclosed blind with a heater and windows vs sitting in your sun room looking at your pasture waiting for a deer to walk through?
What is the difference between having 100 cameras out monitoring every movement over a large area vs flying a drone out?
Is there a meaningful difference in terms of fair chase between a corn pile, and a food plot?
At what point does the effective distance, and area you are lethal cease being fair chase between modern rifles, crossbows, compound bows, and old school long bows?
Is there a difference between a deer drive with people vs using dogs vs hunting the back entrance of an area from other hunters vs even chasing deer towards you with a drone lol.
Even the differences between owning large tracts of land that are highly managed vs outfitted hunts on large tracts of highly managed land vs high fenced hunting the differences seem to be less about the hunt and more about the work.

Every single one of these things FEELS massively different to me, but in terms of fair chase... I think from the deer's perspective it's all the same more or less.
From my perspective the amount of suffering, work, time, effort makes a big difference in the experience and the value of the trophy regardless of size.

Well said better than I could have!

 

[fairchaser]

Riding around in a vehicle looking for what you want to kill during the damn season. The White Ford Platinum truck with the custom wheels was doing that at 6:30 am this morning. Windows down, blaze orange on, creeping for a drive by shooting. One of the most common forms of hunting in the volunteer state. Same guy got a cussing during turkey season. Full camo and had his shotgun at the ready on his console when I pulled up between him and the birds trying to cross the road. He turned around before he got to my property this morning but he's still a road hunting piece of yugo. They let them do that day and night until they see them shoot. Which is rare.

You got something to say and you said it, planking. Seems like everyone is looking for that cheat code.

 

[Bone Collector]

Only 2 of those raise a red flag with me. The cell camera and the drone. I've known a person to sit on the couch until notified that a buck was in the pasture a few hundred yards behind the house. Snuck up on the tractor road to shoot it.

This scenario is the only scenario I agree on with cell cams. Cell cams are great because you do not have to pull the card and the pictures come to you. It is like Christmas every day. However when used in this manner, it is cheating.

 

[Omega]

I have been hunting for a few decades now, and have used a multitude of methods to hunt deer. I have stalked, used boot spikes, screw-in tree steps, climbers, ladder stands, ground blinds, and shooting houses. I've gathered intel, prior to the www, at check stations, but never used any of the other methods, never hunted over bait, except mineral sites if that counts, high fence areas, or used an outfitter, until this year I did not even use cell cams, and the one I now have will be more for camp security vs deer surveillance. But I figure, if someone chooses to use any legal method over another, who am I to say it is unethical.

 

[killingtime 41]

The only real fair chase I see. Is putting boots on the ground reading sign and killing the deer. Cameras are really handy. But how many people would kill an old big racked buck or even a young small racked buck without them these days.before any of these existed in the way they do today. Sure big deer were being killed. But I bet more small bucks were killed than big. Most of us come from the old school. So we know woodsmanship skills in our camera placement to begin with. But I'd say it's fading away. To now just placing cameras all over the place trying to get a pic. I'm not saying I have a problem with any of that. Just replying to the question.