What’s wrong with our sport

[Setterman]

This series of pictures sums up what is wrong with our sport and why it's been broken by the new generation. The first 13 pages of this turkey hunting catalog are decoys and fans. Rather than calls filling the majority of pages it's decoys and other plastic crutches to make any googan successful. It's pretty appalling

 

[Setterman]

Just appalling what's happened...

 

[Setterman]

Add to it another 8 pages for blinds. That's 21 pages out of 30 total all dedicated to people who need a crutch. I'm not even mentioning the 4 pages of feeders. All in all 5 pages for calls and camo

There's no denying that this sport has shifted to a new phase and its hideous. This isn't turkey hunting any longer for most, it's some bizarre shooting sport created by new generation hunters unwilling or unable to learn or even worse unable to care about anything other than a punched tag.

 

[knightrider]

Unfortunately like everything else it is shifted to where the money's at.

 

[Boll Weevil]

Money.

 

[Mike Belt]

I've used dekes before and would probably do so again but they're only a small part of my arsenal. Anyone that hasn't climbed a ridge before daylight and waited on that first bird to gobble before heading off to do battle is missing the art of turkey hunting. You can't do that carrying a bag full of gadgets around. Today's turkey hunter is much like many of the deer hunters. A blind or stand situated over a food plot is more akin to turkey or deer shooting rather than hunting. I don't see much I'd describe in the way of hunting in either case and you certainly aren't learning much about the ways of your quarry.

 

[PalsPal]

I'd quit if I were you. No reason to let what others do negatively affect so badly. Can't be good for your blood pressure.

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[TheLBLman]

There's no denying that this sport has shifted to a new phase and its hideous. This isn't turkey hunting any longer for most, it's some bizarre shooting sport created by new generation hunters unwilling or unable to learn or even worse unable to care about anything other than a punched tag.

My sentiments about all this are not as strong as yours, but I do agree with your theme.

As to what's causing much of it?

Sure, marketing "crutch" products (for money) is a big factor,
but I'm not sure that's the main thing behind the shifting more from turkey hunting to turkey shooting.
Similar has happened with deer hunting.

One big factor is the average shooter/hunter is shooting/hunting on smaller & smaller parcels of land. If this reality isn't accepted, then one must accept much less hunting, or shooting, period. With turkey hunting, the OPPORTUNITY for classic "run & gun" style is becoming less with each passing year, at least for the average person. Those with more means, more time, may travel, and pay for greater opportunities.

"Well, ANYONE could be hunting the vast public land of the upper Cumberland, the Cherokee National Forest, etc . . . . ".
Well, what if the 90% of hunters who currently turkey hunt/shoot on an average plot of less than 50 acres, decided to only hunt the vast acreages?
Then you would have 100x more googans on public land?
Always consequences, many unforeseen, unintended.
Be careful what you wish for, or demand?

Behind much of the blinds & decoys lies the reality many hunters face when attempting to hunt the only 20 acres or so they can legally hunt, or legally hunt conveniently? Sometimes it's either that, or don't hunt, don't shoot.
What happens when any of us attempt to "run & gun" on a small parcel of land?
Just push the birds onto the neighbors' lands?

Maybe a big factor is most people have gotten lazier, fatter?

Another big factor is Facebook and other media, whereby many seek recognition, even if from strangers.
It's possible all this may be more about low self-esteem and bragging rights than anything else?

As much as I don't like the direction turkey hunting has taken, perhaps the only aspect (at this time) I'd outlaw is "fanning".
But don't get me started on season dates, number of days, shooting hens, and the annual limit ---- most of which I believe are in excess.

As to all the other items labeled "crutches", well, sometimes crutches are needed for the circumstances many face. Despite our criticisms, many of those crutches don't work nearly as well as advertised, and are often counter-productive. Decoys are a great example. IMO, they save about as many Toms as they cause to be killed.

Let's not overlook the growing popularity of bowhunting for turkeys, either.
Just another way, some different skill-sets, but yes, still an easier way (if using a blind & decoy) to kill a turkey than "run & gun" in a vast forest.

What we're really talking about more than hunting or shooting, may be tradition?

As with deer, there has been a long tradition in many places of hunting deer with hounds.
In other places, that tradition has died of the necessity of fragmenting land ownerships, or new and different traditions instead.
In Texas, there is a long tradition of killing deer over corn feeders, and calling that "hunting".

Then some will argue why is it considered "ok" to hunt ducks with decoys, but not turkeys?
Why is it "ok" to hunt rabbits & raccoons with dogs, but not deer or turkeys?

I don't know what the answer is,
other than for some like Setterman to continue writing and posting his thoughts publically about the merits of traditional turkey hunting. The traditional style he describes is, imo, truly the most enjoyable way of turkey hunting, and absolutely requires the developing of real hunting skills to be done proficiently. It is mostly about hunting, very little about shooting, other than many turkeys die once this hunting art is mastered.

Sadly, there will come a day when most of us absolutely cannot turkey hunt in the traditional run & gun style, even if we have convenient access to vast land holdings where we otherwise could. There may come a day, when even Setterman would rather set out a morning in a blind, calling & watching turkeys, instead of of just watching someone else do it TV. None of us are getting any younger.

Many hunting traditions may in fact be more about shooting than hunting.
Perhaps my dove hunting is really mostly just shooting, but I'm ok with that "tradition".
Opinions vary. I do appreciate hearing them.

My opinion remains Setterman is more right than wrong with what he's saying,
but there is much gray area, varying circumstances, what's wrong for one, may be ok for another.

I hope Setterman will continue to share his writings and thoughts about traditional run & gun turkey hunting.
It is much more exciting than just seeing someone holding up a dead turkey on Facebook.

 

[woodsman04]

First 12 pages in the cabelas/bass pro spring catalog was decoys.
First 8-10 in Mack's prairie wings was decoys. (It doesn't surprise me that from Mack's prairie wings though.)

Don't understand why things that are as deadly to turkeys and fanning and ultra realistic decoys are legal because I think they are decimating the population.

I'll bet it's harder to kill a gobbler baiting with grain than it is to use decoys.


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[TheLBLman]

Don't understand why things that are as deadly to turkeys and fanning and ultra realistic decoys are legal because I think they are decimating the population.

IMO, what has decimated the turkey population most is too much hunting with annual limits that are too high, at least from a regulatory standpoint.

IMO, we could do more to increase the turkey population by opening the season a week or two later,
and going back to a 2-bird annual limit, than by outlawing decoys.

I'll bet it's harder to kill a gobbler baiting with grain than it is to use decoys.

No way.
But baiting is already illegal, just shocking how many birds are nonetheless killed over corn piles.
Many those birds are then "legally" checked in, their smiling shooters quickly posting the pics on Facebook.
Most county wildlife officer are trying to catch them, but they have a daunting task, especially when they're also expected to be checking for illegal fishing activities and be first responders for everything else happening in their counties.

A 2-bird limit would go a long way in helping improve our turkey hunting, especially if the season opened a week later.

 

[TheLBLman]

One more thing about decoys:

Many who use them are in fact very poor hunters.
They're not even aware how many birds they spook just by setting out and/or retrieving their decoys.
Sometimes, it's the extra noise they make, placing decoys, or putting up a blind.

Yes, sometimes decoys work well.
But if a turkey sees you putting it out, it's game over.
And the more decoys are used in an area, the more the turkeys become "decoy shy",
often immediately turning, walking the opposite direction upon seeing a decoy.
Ironically, often these are birds that could have been called to the gun without a decoy.

As with deer hunting, it's easy to "wear out" a spot turkey hunting,
and the use of decoys can quickly "wear out" their effectiveness much like repeated deer hunting from the same ladder stand.
The "run & gun" style of turkey hunting doesn't "wear out" any particular spot,
but what if we had 10 times more googans attempting it where we're doing it?

Be careful what you wish.
Outlawing decoys would mean more googans walking around messing up your hunting.

 

[Setterman]

I'd quit if I were you. No reason to let what others do negatively affect so badly. Can't be good for your blood pressure.

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Ha, I'll never quit. It doesn't affect me, but given the direction of a sport I've loved for going on 30 years I hate seeing it devolve into what it's becoming. I will continue to speak my mind regarding the new generation of hunters and how I feel they are ruining what is a magical sport. All the evidence is right there in plain view for all to see, some choose not to see it, or worse don't care.

The traditional style of turkey hunting is as pure a form of hunting as you can do, and on the other end is this crutch filled kill shot style that's infiltrating and destroying tradition.

Wes, and others are less pointed in their opinions than I, as I'm more bull raging through the china shop, but it's so refreshing to see others understand what I'm getting at.

You obviously disagree with me, so I suggest you gather up your bag of decoys and just ignore me.

 

[SEC]

Meow have any idea how fast meow was going......

 

[woodsman04]

The urge to breed and fight during spring overcomes eating. Even with hens, hens move on to nesting grounds regardless of corn feeders.

Throw a strutting gobbler decoy out there and the boss gobbler will come charge it.
Hunt a feeder and there is a good chance he comes by eventually but not always immediately.


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[woodsman04]

One more thing about decoys:

Many who use them are in fact very poor hunters.
They're not even aware how many birds they spook just by setting out and/or retrieving their decoys.
Sometimes, it's the extra noise they make, placing decoys, or putting up a blind.

Yes, sometimes decoys work well.
But if a turkey sees you putting it out, it's game over.
And the more decoys are used in an area, the more the turkeys become "decoy shy",
often immediately turning, walking the opposite direction upon seeing a decoy.
Ironically, often these are birds that could have been called to the gun without a decoy.

As with deer hunting, it's easy to "wear out" a spot turkey hunting,
and the use of decoys can quickly "wear out" their effectiveness much like repeated deer hunting from the same ladder stand.
The "run & gun" style of turkey hunting doesn't "wear out" any particular spot,
but what if we had 10 times more googans attempting it where we're doing it?

Be careful what you wish.
Outlawing decoys would mean more googans walking around messing up your hunting.

I think the "googans" would quit for the most part.


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[Andy S.]

I agree with Setterman, not a fan of decoys, fans, etc. As many of you know, I reload TSS to shoot in my lightweight 20G. If I could vote tomorrow, and it mattered, and I had to make TSS illegal to make decoys illegal, I would. I'd go back to a 12G with lead #4s and get it done in the timber.

The "sport" is SO MUCH MORE CHALLENGING, FUN AND REWARDING if you do it IN THE WOODS WITHOUT DECOYS and MAKE THEM COME FIND YOU. My .02

 

[woodsman04]

Look I don't like the decoys, but they ain't going anywhere. We would be a random draw tag one bird limit before anything are done to decoys.


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[TNReb]

I won't knock any of you for your opinions - but I don't get knocking on others for wanting to use decoys either. I have a couple. I'm guilty of using them.

Am I as good a turkey hunter as some of you? No.

Does that make me someone who is hurting our sport? No.

I don't see much difference in arguing over someone using decoys and blinds than someone who uses a centerfire rifle instead of a recurve bow for deer. Is a rifle a crutch because the hunter isn't good enough to kill that deer with a recurve?

 

[Setterman]

I won't knock any of you for your opinions - but I don't get knocking on others for wanting to use decoys either. I have a couple. I'm guilty of using them.

Am I as good a turkey hunter as some of you? No.

Does that make me someone who is hurting our sport? No.

I don't see much difference in arguing over someone using decoys and blinds than someone who uses a centerfire rifle instead of a recurve bow for deer. Is a rifle a crutch because the hunter isn't good enough to kill that deer with a recurve?

I should be clear, that the hunter who grabs one here and there to take out a bird which is a problem is one thing and something that really doesn't concern me all that much. What I have issues with is the hunters that their entire strategy involves decoys, fans, and blinds. They don't care to understand or care to hunt the traditional way as it's not going to achieve the instant kill they long for.

With that said, I do believe that the population and sport will be far better off when all these tactics are eradicated.

 

[PickettSFHunter]

Look at the mainstream hunting "celebs" and how they are "hunting". Look at the "pro staff". I know a "pro staffer" who couldn't kill a turkey in a turkey farm but that's who is out there being the face of turkey hunting to many younger people showing them this junk. My eyes have been opened to the teenage crowd, a lot of them just don't know that real turkey hunting exists. They think turkey hunting is fanning and decoying because they see the pro staffers and celebs mentioned above doing that. Unfortunately, once they are exposed to that, there isn't much turning back because they enjoy the high kill rate.


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[Newt]

I agree Setterman! Like Andy if I could vote decoys and fans out tomorrow I would just my two cents. I live and grew up about a rock throwing distance from the gates of catoosa wma that's where I cut my teeth turkey hunting at a young age. Zero decoys or blinds or fans, I rarely ever won the battle starting out but I had a burning desire and passion to be like the old timers that I looked up to. When You finally get it figured out so to speak the chess match is a addiction! I have since then used decoys for a short time period on some private cattle farms and just can't stand packing them around and the trance it puts them in as they leave there hens coming to fight. I just personally choose to play the game that I grew to love as a kid that's my passion!

 

[TheLBLman]

I don't see much difference in arguing over someone using decoys and blinds than someone who uses a centerfire rifle instead of a recurve bow for deer. Is a rifle a crutch because the hunter isn't good enough to kill that deer with a recurve?

I think that's a very fair question, and your point well taken.

By the way, over the years, I've experimented with decoys, seen others experiment with them.
Most of the time, I'm not using a decoy, as I see them doing more to harm than help my hunting.
Simply having a decoy with you, even if not used, can reduce stealth and mobility.

Another decoy issue no one has mentioned, but happens frequently:
Decoys will frequently get placed canted, get blown over by wind, and just otherwise look unnatural at times,
no matter how realistic they may look otherwise. They then become more likely to turn a bird than attract a bird.
Most hunters then get up and re-do their decoy, never realizing they may have just exposed themselves to birds in the distance.

Never mind, even with a perfect decoy placement, about as often as not, turkeys will simply show a distant curiosity, and stop coming your way upon seeing a decoy.

My main reason for occasionally using a hen decoy is to enhance shot placement when I'm calling up a bird for someone else. Sometimes it works, sometimes it spooks the bird I'm calling in. But if the bird comes in, he will typically hang around longer and offer more good shooting opportunities. This can especially benefit a bowhunter or a less experienced hunter. But a key point is that most of the time, I'm still calling in that bird, and the decoy's main benefit is to make him hang longer in the most ideal spot for a clean kill.

That said, I'd personally not miss a beat if decoys were outlawed, and usually don't use them anyway when hunting solo and/or run & gun. It's just that in many instances, the amount of acreage is too small for run & gun style, imo. Even hunting large acreage public land, sometimes run & gun isn't the best style, and I do more sitting than walking, just usually without a burdensome decoy.

 

[megalomaniac]

The problem with the new style of turkey killing is that it is NOT turkey hunting.

Turkey hunting is all about imitating a hen or sometimes a challenging male with calls. The new reaping craze is just crawl into their comfort zone, pop the fan, then blast them in the body at 10 yard when they come running in. Tons don't even carry calls, just fans.

Now don't get me wrong.... I'm not a holier than thou.... I LOVE my hen decoy right off the roost.... but I'm spending a couple hours the evening before the hunt, roosting a bird often to the exact tree, then going in on him in the pitch black dark the next morn and setting up around 60 yds away.

If his hens lead him away that morn ( which is what usually happens), then I'm off running and gunning till 5pm looking for others to chase. At that point, decoys just slow me down and are not as effective as calling and woodmanship skills.

But when all is said and done, I think everyone would have more encounters with birds and yet more would survive the season if all decoys were outlawed. Especially the newer strutting/reaping decoys.

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[poorhunter]

One feller on this discussion last year said hunting with calls was EASY and hunting with decoys was harder. "I can go out and easily kill with just a call, but sometimes decoys don't work." I have never ever in my turkey hunting life heard anyone else ever say that turkey hunting was easy the traditional way. You cannot convince me that decoys have not been a detriment to both the turkey population and to the sport of turkey hunting. Used to be that turkey hunting videos taught at least something about hunting turkeys. Now it's about how to put in a good plot to attract them, put your blind in the right spot and stick your decoy in the ground close enough to your blind. I learned quite a bit from Will Primos and Toxy Haas until I got enough time in the woods under my belt. I can appreciate what LBL said about only being able to hunt small plots of land and decoys being the only way to kill one...but why is pulling the trigger THAT important? I usually take several kids out including my own each spring, and they hunt how I hunt. If that means walking through a creek and up the ridge they do it. If it means sitting against a tree for a couple hours they do it. If it means we don't even hear or see a bird they do it. They WANT to go! It's almost become a thing now to get to go with me. I have used a strutter twice when an old college friend brought one a couple years ago. Two hunts that lasted all of maybe an hour total and 4 longbeards killed. I know they don't always work, but we used to take half the day to double up back in the day 20 years ago IF we doubled at all. The use of decoys in the early season on henned up field birds is really putting the hurt on the population.

Hunting turkeys is "easy"? I must be a terrible turkey hunter, I've never found it to be easy.

 

[TheLBLman]

I can appreciate what LBL said about only being able to hunt small plots of land and decoys being the only way to kill one...but why is pulling the trigger THAT important?

Just to clarify, I was not saying using a decoy necessarily changed anything other than often causing a Tom to spend a few more seconds strutting or hanging in the most ideal spot for a good shot.

More important to me, is not pulling the trigger, but making a clean head/neck shot every time the trigger is pulled.

When hunting small parcels, often, the only practical method is to go out before daylight and stay in a single location. You don't need a decoy to call up a turkey, and using a decoy will often repulse one. But when one comes in, they will usually "check out" that decoy, providing additional time for making a clean head/neck shot. IMO, this can be advantageous for the less experienced, and sometimes the experienced as well. Even more true for a bowhunter.

In fact, when I do use a decoy, I often semi-"hide" that hen, where she's not even visible from much distance. Often, about all that's visible is the decoy's head, but that's enough to hold a Tom's attention once he's already been called in.

When we "run & gun" with the more traditional style of turkey hunting, we're typically "sitting" when we call up a turkey?
Sometimes sitting for a long time? How many "set-ups" in a morning?
Biggest mistake of most is not sitting long enough with each sit?

When hunting a small tract, the only thing being changed is cutting out so much re-locating, typically staying put in a single location, rather than changing locations. Otherwise, much about it is the same.

 

[Boll Weevil]

Read some of the language used in the ads in the catalog Setterman posted:

"...amazingly effective."
"...drives male turkeys nuts and they have no reservation about approaching her."
"Trigger a quick response..."
"No strings, no pulleys, just results!"

The ads don't attempt to even thinly veil that their focus isn't at all on hunting turkeys. Marketing experts for any given product or service know how to trigger a purchase. They target consumers who are likely to purchase and know precisely what sales pitch to deliver that will yield a sale. The selling of plastic turkeys seems now more akin to offering up an easy button to targeted consumers.

Traditional turkey hunting can indeed be hard at times but every spring I remind myself, "Sometimes it's supposed to be that way."

 

[String Music]

I'll be honest, for years I used decoys on every hunt because I thought that was turkey hunting. I honestly didn't know any better. I grew up in a family of deer hunters so I'm a self-taught turkey hunter. Also, the property I hunt (which Setterman knows well) is loaded with fields and this is where the majority of the turkeys roost and spend much of their day.

Based on the videos I watched and magazines I read, I thought everyone used decoys. It wasn't until Setterman and I got into a spat on here many years ago that I really realized there was another, more fulfilling method.

I haven't killed a gobbler over a decoy in years. However, I still own a few and pull them out when I take certain people. I do enjoy watching a dominate field gobbler get blasted in the face.

So, it may be ignorance as much or more as the desire to just punch tags.


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[String Music]

Most of the videos I've watched lately has a hunter carrying a bag of decoys over his should. That would get on my last nerve. I killed most of my gobblers over a foam half-strut decoy that rolled up in my vest and did not look nearly as realistic as the ones out today.


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[Atchman2]

When I am archery hunting I use blinds and decoys. I have to have something to take their eyesoff me.

Honestly? I dont have an issue with anyone wanting to get a turkey. I hunted four years before I got my first bird. It was special. No decoys or blinds but I did use a shotgun (shame).

Since then Im pretty much an archery hunted kn lands that I know. The first time on a land Im usually carrying my calls my shotgun and that advantage of something to sit.

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[Pic IN the Casa]

I won't knock any of you for your opinions - but I don't get knocking on others for wanting to use decoys either. I have a couple. I'm guilty of using them.

Am I as good a turkey hunter as some of you? No.

Does that make me someone who is hurting our sport? No.

I don't see much difference in arguing over someone using decoys and blinds than someone who uses a centerfire rifle instead of a recurve bow for deer. Is a rifle a crutch because the hunter isn't good enough to kill that deer with a recurve?

Right there with ya.