turkey pop in southern wayne co

Tennessee Deer Sporting & Deer Hunting Community Forum

Help Support TNDeer | Tennessee Deer:

volsrock":3v7jyi50 said:
hbg1":3v7jyi50 said:
volsrock":3v7jyi50 said:
so you are telling me habitat change is the prob in south wayne co. hahahaa. yep sounds as good as a excuse as any!!!! 2 nd largest county in the state and the least populated!!! yep no where for the turkeys to live unlike 10 yrs ago. give me a break. u guys are funny!!!

Herein lies the problem, everyone wants to offer up excuses instead of doing something, especially the Twra. I have lived in southern Wayne county for 50 years and yes the habitat changes, always has, but the changes are not drastic enough to illicit the drastic change in the turkey population.
but but but. its gotta be see something like this. yea the habitat has changed so much in wayne co in a the last ten years!! hahahahaha
I guess it boils down to what you want to believe. The turkey population is declining and there are many things that are causing it. I agree that chicken manure is a cause of the decline, but only one of many. Habitat change effects the turkeys more than we think. If there's not any good nesting areas, feeding areas, etc, the turkeys can't survive. So, habitat change isn't something that should be looked over when it comes to the turkey decline.
 
no habitat change in maury co???? they have been top 5 in the state for yrs. just two counties above wayne!!!! U may be right but wayne co is the second largest co in the state and the least populated!!! Id say habitat is not the prob in wayne co !!! thousands of acres of uninhabited land!!!!
 
volsrock":3tdk4cuc said:
no habitat change in maury co???? they have been top 5 in the state for yrs. just two counties above wayne!!!! U may be right but wayne co is the second largest co in the state and the least populated!!! Id say habitat is not the prob in wayne co !!! thousands of acres of uninhabited land!!!!
Thousands of acres of uninhabited land that is made of mostly hardwood timber and pines. I hunt a few places in Wayne county and there have been a few years where the acorn crop hasn't been all that good. 2 out of the last three years where I hunt over there, acorns were basically non existent. Turkeys were almost the same way. Again, I'm not saying that is all of Wayne county or the main cause of the decline in Wayne county, but that is the case where I have hunted over there. The WMAs over there are also constantly getting logged.
 
volsrock":1yurjk3v said:
Id say habitat is not the prob in wayne co !!! thousands of acres of uninhabited land!!!!
I'd say I don't know what are the most significant problems in Wayne Co.,
but "Uninhabited" does not equate to good year-round turkey habitat.

The Smoky Mountain National Park is TN's largest block of "uninhabited" land
but is also may be our largest block of poor habitat for wild turkey & deer.
They exist there, but I suspect in much lower numbers than compared to Wayne Co.

Turkeys have a lot going against them, but, imo, one of the things they need to thrive is great habitat diversity within relatively small areas (less than a square mile).

They need a diverse, year-round food supply, not just periodic acorns, and not just the barren nothing of many pine stands.
They also need great nesting cover, lots of it, for good reproduction.
Some of our most (human) uninhabited areas provide the least of what's needed most.

But even with ideal year-round food supply habitat, protective cover from predators, and great nesting habitat,
turkeys may not thrive due to so many other factors going against them.

And, these factors can be hard to isolate, since they can vary so much from one area to the next,
then from one year to the next (such as mast acorn failure, or too much rain one year vs. another, etc.)
not to mention varying localized factors such as poaching and more or less hunting.

Even a single weather event, such as a freezing rain in January, followed by very low sub-freezing temperatures the next day or so
can contribute to much greater mortality in a localized area.
 
All i know is there is at least 1000 acres around me of which i own 220 of that habitat had not changed except for the normal growth in the last ten yrs. I have counted over a hundred coming off the roost in a single morning!!!! Now im lucky to find one on the roost!!!!!
 
volsrock":1w1gza2b said:
All i know is there is at least 1000 acres around me of which i own 220 of that habitat had not changed except for the normal growth in the last ten yrs. I have counted over a hundred coming off the roost in a single morning!!!! Now im lucky to find one on the roost!!!!!

Habitat is always changing, especially in non ag/pasture environments. A ton can change in 10 years depending on the type of habitat. To the person who lives there, these changes are much less apparent. In your case, maybe the habitat has not changed that much. But keep in mind that a turkey's home range is much greater than 220 acres, and in most cases, a lot larger than 1,000 acres.

I feel for you on the turkey situation. I've actually been looking at aerial imagery of south Wayne County and I see that there is a lot more ag there than central and northern Wayne. Even though the turkey decline has been county wide, it makes ya wonder...

You can look at past imagery in Google Earth and see how timber harvesting really amped up in the past 10-15 years in central/northern Wayne. I know the conversion of large acreages to even-aged pine plantations has definitely had an affect on the bird numbers on the public lands.
 
As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases. Product prices and availability are accurate as of the date/time indicated and are subject to change.
th88":1kbr305o said:
. . . . . keep in mind that a turkey's home range is much greater than 220 acres,
and in most cases, a lot larger than 1,000 acres.
IMO, this is something many of us have a hard time "accepting" with both the ranges of deer & turkey.

MOST of us kinda think of the deer & turkey we commonly see on our property as being "ours", often a bit oblivious that someone else over a mile away may be seeing them just as often (maybe just on different days).

Keep in mind a single square mile is 640 acres, so an area 3 miles x 3 miles is 9 sq. miles = 5,760 acres.

A more common "range" configuration is a creek drainage or ridgeline range, say 4.5 miles long x 2 miles wide = still 5,760 acres of range "habitat".

Both deer & turkey will commonly "range shift" over 3 miles during a single year.

th88":1kbr305o said:
I feel for you on the turkey situation.
x 2

Most of us long-time turkey hunters have experienced similar,
and often been unable to isolate a single factor as cause.

The one time I've personally seen a huge sudden reduction on an area of several thousand acres was caused by a corn feeder, which was feeding "certified aflatoxin-free" corn (purchased at a County Co-Op as horse feed). That one feeder was providing corn to a large wintering flock, and basically just wiped them all out inside a week in late February.

Ever since, I have strongly discouraged corn feeding, believing (for a variety of reasons, not just the aflatoxin risk)
it too often just does more harm than good.

Seriously, all it takes is a single batch of aflatoxin corn (that's a single feeder)
to wipe most the turkeys using a very large area, especially if aflatoxin develops while turkeys are still in winter flocks.
Much of the corn sold at places like Walmart as "deer corn" already contains the deadly aflatoxin (deadly to birds, not deer).
Aflatoxin typically will only make deer a little "sick",
but that can make them more vulnerable to other illness and predation.
 
I believe it is a combination of things, but I'll say this: I was on a lease of 700 acres that was covered up with turkeys. I've sat in a deer stand and counted over 100 many times. One year the farmer started using chicken manure. Almost immediately our turkey sightings dropped well over 50%. At 50% I'm being conservative. Why? No idea. I also think with the trail camera craze everyone is putting out corn feeders to get deer pics. How much has aflatoxins? I don't know.
 
TheLBLman":ray19r0d said:
Seriously, all it takes is a single batch of aflatoxin corn (that's a single feeder)
to wipe most the turkeys using a very large area, especially if aflatoxin develops while turkeys are still in winter flocks.
And the baiting risks aren't just with corn.

Here is a link to a story on a flock in MS being wiped out by insecticide laced wheat seed:

https://www.ms-sportsman.com/turkey-hun ... ey-deaths/



Moral of the story: Baiting = bad for turkey!
 
th88":32iatina said:
And the baiting risks aren't just with corn.

Here is a link to a story on a flock in MS being wiped out by insecticide laced wheat seed:

https://www.ms-sportsman.com/turkey-hun ... ey-deaths/

Moral of the story: Baiting = bad for turkey!
Yep, and you are preaching to the choir on this to me --- totally agree with you.

Also, don't think this has been previously mentioned on this thread,
but modern farming practices (along with other causes) have reduced the number of insects.

Guess what is the primary diet of young turkeys?

Add DECREASING Insects to the list of factors causing a decline in turkey populations.

This study is from Germany, but it's happening world-wide . . . . . . .
https://phys.org/news/2019-07-insect-ap ... chers.html

"We only became aware of the seriousness of this decline in 2011, and every year since then we have seen it get worse," says Sorg, the man who sounded the alarm.

Also in 2011, just across the Dutch border, ecology professor Hans de Kroon was working on the decline of birds in the region.

He hypothesised that the birds suffered from a shortage of food, especially insects.
 
TheLBLman":3rb1lthx said:
Yep, and you are preaching to the choir on this to me --- totally agree with you.
Oh, I know. Just trying to spread the good word and inform others!
 
This photo was taken in MS. I know the guys who own/run this place. You cannot educate them on real scientific biology or the risks associated with feeding wildlife, among other things. It's the way they have done it for years, and you are not changing their ways. In fact, they think they are benefiting the resource by feeding them.

8VkZyHB.jpg
 
Andy S.":3clbs1rz said:
You cannot educate them on real scientific biology or the risks associated with feeding wildlife, among other things.
^ This...especially the "among other things" part. I've come to understand and accept that some folks actually have a deep almost visceral disdain for research-based/evidence-backed knowledge. The fastest way to get them to plug their ears is to cite science. :roll:
 
Boll Weevil":255r9daf said:
Andy S.":255r9daf said:
You cannot educate them on real scientific biology or the risks associated with feeding wildlife, among other things.
^ This...especially the "among other things" part. I've come to understand and accept that some folks actually have a deep almost visceral disdain for research-based/evidence-backed knowledge. The fastest way to get them to plug their ears is to cite science. :roll:



hahaha. u can educate me all u want!!! iv lived here all my life!!!!! from no turkeys to turkeys everywhere to no turkeys!!! What changed???? Chicken houses exploded!!!! not habitat!!! not preditors. not nothing but more chicken yugo!!!!!
 
Southern Wayne has turkeys?

It wasn't predators, habitat change or feeding corn. Check all three boxes for those that were around in the late 90s through 2010.

The only things new are armadillos and chicken litter, neither of which make sense. To many areas of south Alabama and Mississippi loaded with birds and have had both for decades.

Either way, the days of seeing a hundred in a field around here are over. Heck, I'd like to see 10.
 
Thank u Alabama SWamper... no one believes me on the decline of turkeys in south wayne co!!! unless uv lived here or hunted here u will not belive it!!!!! i still say chicken houses!!! prove me wrong!!
 
volsrock I know a guy in Perry co. has 400 acre farm ,, like us in southern wayne he once was loaded with birds ... Now they have nothing 0 ! He said there are no chicken houses , no chicken liter been spread . He knows all local farmers around perry co. No one had used chicken litter. Perry co numbers worse than ours.
 
Hate to hear that in perry co.... but... until someone can give me a different reason im sticking to my guns!!! CHICKEN HOUSES!!!! Somebody Prove me wrong!!!
 
turkeyhunter":1wxkigam said:
volsrock I know a guy in Perry co. has 400 acre farm ,, like us in southern wayne he once was loaded with birds ... Now they have nothing 0 ! He said there are no chicken houses , no chicken liter been spread . He knows all local farmers around perry co. No one had used chicken litter. Perry co numbers worse than ours.
I've witnessed the decline in Perry County firsthand, and just as your friend stated, no chicken houses or chicken litter in the area. Makes a man scratch his head pondering what all could've went wrong to create the perfect storm and wipe out the turkeys.
 
Andy S.":3gooj76q said:
turkeyhunter":3gooj76q said:
volsrock I know a guy in Perry co. has 400 acre farm ,, like us in southern wayne he once was loaded with birds ... Now they have nothing 0 ! He said there are no chicken houses , no chicken liter been spread . He knows all local farmers around perry co. No one had used chicken litter. Perry co numbers worse than ours.
I've witnessed the decline in Perry County firsthand, and just as your friend stated, no chicken houses or chicken litter in the area. Makes a man scratch his head pondering what all could've went wrong to create the perfect storm and wipe out the turkeys.

Perry County is the perfect example of what habitat change can do. The clear cuts that Hughes Lumber company did when they bought Willamette are ridiculous. Just google fire tower road, Linden Tn and look at the aerial photos. Places a turkey couldn't find a roost tree for a mile square and more. I have typed it numerous times in these forums. Huge cutovers=very few If any turkeys. Hickman and Lewis counties are just as bad as far as cutovers. At least Willamette had agreed to checkerboard stuff. And what sucks is there is no fixing it.
 
tnanh":4txescxp said:
Andy S.":4txescxp said:
turkeyhunter":4txescxp said:
volsrock I know a guy in Perry co. has 400 acre farm ,, like us in southern wayne he once was loaded with birds ... Now they have nothing 0 ! He said there are no chicken houses , no chicken liter been spread . He knows all local farmers around perry co. No one had used chicken litter. Perry co numbers worse than ours.
I've witnessed the decline in Perry County firsthand, and just as your friend stated, no chicken houses or chicken litter in the area. Makes a man scratch his head pondering what all could've went wrong to create the perfect storm and wipe out the turkeys.

Perry County is the perfect example of what habitat change can do. The clear cuts that Hughes Lumber company did when they bought Willamette are ridiculous. Just google fire tower road, Linden Tn and look at the aerial photos. Places a turkey couldn't find a roost tree for a mile square and more. I have typed it numerous times in these forums. Huge cutovers=very few If any turkeys. Hickman and Lewis counties are just as bad as far as cutovers. At least Willamette had agreed to checkerboard stuff. And what sucks is there is no fixing it.

100% agree. I believe the habitat change over the last decade and a half has been the main driver in the population decline in Wayne, Perry, and Lewis counties.
 
Habitat change?? Have they not been cutting timber for years!! Im not buying that excuse!!! the decline was too quick!!!! Turkeys are too smart to let a couple hundred acres of timber being cut to vanish that quick!! BTW MY 240 acres has not changed since the decline!!!!!!!! Or the acres and acres around me!!!!!!!!! Give me another reason!!!!!!!! Im all ears!!
 
hooks":3nf3764r said:
tnanh":3nf3764r said:
Perry County is the perfect example of what habitat change can do. The clear cuts that Hughes Lumber company did when they bought Willamette are ridiculous. Just google fire tower road, Linden Tn and look at the aerial photos. Places a turkey couldn't find a roost tree for a mile square and more. I have typed it numerous times in these forums. Huge cutovers=very few If any turkeys. Hickman and Lewis counties are just as bad as far as cutovers. At least Willamette had agreed to checkerboard stuff. And what sucks is there is no fixing it.
100% agree. I believe the habitat change over the last decade and a half has been the main driver in the population decline in Wayne, Perry, and Lewis counties.
As you both stated, the cutover massacre hasn't done the turkeys any favors. With that said, there is still a good bit of private ground in northern Perry county that is not cutover, and not farm land (chicken litter, etc), and it is nothing like it used to be. Back in the day, I could ride back road after back road and see all kinds of hens and strutters from the road, and wads of jakes. When I am in that general area these days, I make it a point to ride, look and reminisce, and rarely ever see turkeys like I did 15 years ago. When I do spot one, it is just a few, no big flocks of hens like back in the day. Furthermore, I rarely see turkey hunters either, not parked, not on the road, not in the stores, etc. Pretty depressing when I reflect on how good it once was in the late 90s and early 2000s.
 
Andy S.":3cm0fyem said:
hooks":3cm0fyem said:
tnanh":3cm0fyem said:
Perry County is the perfect example of what habitat change can do. The clear cuts that Hughes Lumber company did when they bought Willamette are ridiculous. Just google fire tower road, Linden Tn and look at the aerial photos. Places a turkey couldn't find a roost tree for a mile square and more. I have typed it numerous times in these forums. Huge cutovers=very few If any turkeys. Hickman and Lewis counties are just as bad as far as cutovers. At least Willamette had agreed to checkerboard stuff. And what sucks is there is no fixing it.
100% agree. I believe the habitat change over the last decade and a half has been the main driver in the population decline in Wayne, Perry, and Lewis counties.
As you both stated, the cutover massacre hasn't done the turkeys any favors. With that said, there is still a good bit of private ground in northern Perry county that is not cutover, and not farm land (chicken litter, etc), and it is nothing like it used to be. Back in the day, I could ride back road after back road and see all kinds of hens and strutters from the road, and wads of jakes. When I am in that general area these days, I make it a point to ride, look and reminisce, and rarely ever see turkeys like I did 15 years ago. When I do spot one, it is just a few, no big flocks of hens like back in the day. Furthermore, I rarely see turkey hunters either, not parked, not on the road, not in the stores, etc. Pretty depressing when I reflect on how good it once was in the late 90s and early 2000s.


I've only lived here (Southern Hickman) for 6 years and I've noticed the same thing in that short time period. Although for me and my area it wasn't gradual but sudden. Fall of 2017 there were still winter flocks of 20-30 toms and 50+ hens. Spring of 2018 and there were practically no turkeys to be seen or heard. Winter flocks in 2018 were 3-5 toms and maybe 5-10 hens, winter this year 5-7 toms and a few more hens. We'll see what spring brings. First three years was awesome with 10 different farms to hunt there were always turkeys to find and hunt.
 
One thing most people that have posted seem to agree on is our turkeys are mismanaged miserably. They aren't the only resource that is mismanaged. They all are. Asian carp in the fisheries, disease in the deer with CWD and EHD and still 3 does a day, and turkeys are disappearing. Our resource managers do nothing until it is too late. I have said this before and threads get locked and people think it is a personal attack. Let me be clear in saying it is not a personal attack on anyone. Things have got to change with wildlife management in Tennessee. The only thing that can be done with the deer and turkeys is season and limit changes in my opinion. Reluctance to try and fix the problems will mean sooner or later fewer jobs needed in wildlife management because there will not be enough left to manage. It is time for them to go to work and fix some things. Even if it means changing the opening date or limits for this spring. Change the limit to one or two turkeys until they can figure out what is going on may accomplish something without changing the dates. I have no idea on a answer but I do know the same ole same ole year after year is not going to work. Statewide seasons and limits is not either.
 
tnanh":2dz6a31v said:
One thing most people that have posted seem to agree on is our turkeys are mismanaged miserably. They aren't the only resource that is mismanaged. They all are. Asian carp in the fisheries, disease in the deer with CWD and EHD and still 3 does a day, and turkeys are disappearing. Our resource managers do nothing until it is too late. I have said this before and threads get locked and people think it is a personal attack. Let me be clear in saying it is not a personal attack on anyone. Things have got to change with wildlife management in Tennessee. The only thing that can be done with the deer and turkeys is season and limit changes in my opinion. Reluctance to try and fix the problems will mean sooner or later fewer jobs needed in wildlife management because there will not be enough left to manage. It is time for them to go to work and fix some things. Even if it means changing the opening date or limits for this spring. Change the limit to one or two turkeys until they can figure out what is going on may accomplish something without changing the dates. I have no idea on a answer but I do know the same ole same ole year after year is not going to work. Statewide seasons and limits is not either.

Absolutely agree!!! Unfortunately its too late in south Wayne Co!!! Turkeys are gone!!! Butt at least we have chicken houses and chicken manure everywhere!!!!!!
 
On top of what scn said......Armadillo population expansion has a very similar pattern to the turkey harvest decline. It maybe coincident ?
So many states are experiencing the same issue as tn. That indicates its a biological population adjustment rather than a local issue. Only time will tell.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top