Trail Camera Warning

[DMD]

Amen! I watched a small buck rub a pine tree for 2-3 minutes early November. His head/nose almost touched one of my old school Reconyx cameras. He eventually walked off back the way he came from. Never entered the "trigger zone" and never tripped the camera.

Exactly. Great illustration.

 

[Bushape]

Let me suggest that cell-cams make lousy scouting tools. Hunters place them out and then expect good pictures from that location all season. That usually isn't the way it works.

I move my cams constantly. When I pull a card on a cam, I look at the images while I'm standing there and decide if the cam needs to be moved. Maybe it only needs to be moved 20 yards to a new hotter scrape or some other sign. Or perhaps the images I see show me the travel pattern have shifted 50 yards "over there." Or maybe that location has just gone dead "for now" (it may pick back up later in the year). By checking cams frequently (but being very careful HOW you check your cams) you can constantly adjust their locations. Just running 8 cams, I will use 50-60 different locations during the season.

what affect have you found that to have on mature deer? I typically rely on food supply and geography to determine where to position myself to kill a mature deer. I have always feared that my presence, even if only monthly or bimonthly decreases my chances of shooting a mature deer. Thoughts or data welcomed.

 

[DMD]

What I meant was coverage area of cameras, Trigger area per camera X number of cameras to get total coverage area divided by acreage. I am betting most are less than .05 % of your land that is being monitored by cameras.

You nailed it HH. My initial point exactly.

 

[BSK]

I am using alot of the same cameras you have. My point is 90-110' is tiny when you look at the fact that a deer can walk wherever they want. If they walk behind the camera, 40 yards over, scenarios like that. I am running a camera for every 5 acres and I see bucks while hunting that I have never gotten a picture of. On the flip side I may get the same buck on multiple cameras everyday. It is hard to get them all.

I have to say, something is wrong in your camera placement. A camera per 5 acres and you're seeing bucks in person that aren't on camera? I have 500 acres, run 6-8 cams and we almost never see/kill a buck we don't have on cam. And that's over a 21-year timespan.

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

You may be 100 percent correct on the camera placement. Could it also be that the bucks with no pictures are on their outer edges of their home ranges and only occasionally drift through? I place cameras in food plots, major trails, secondary trails, and scrapes. Where do you recommend that I place them?

 

[DoubleRidge]

I have to say, something is wrong in your camera placement. A camera per 5 acres and you're seeing bucks in person that aren't on camera? I have 500 acres, run 6-8 cams and we almost never see/kill a buck we don't have on cam. And that's over a 21-year timespan.

It's interesting how different properties can be so different...on one property we run 3 cameras on a little over 200 acres and the majority of bucks we see we have pics of...with the exception of the peak of the rut...during that narrow window we will occasionally see a buck we have no history with?...also we will have a buck disappear only to reappear later.
And maybe a topic for another day....but one neighbor we have has the exact same management goals and we have an open line of communication, share pics, etc....and its amazing...some bucks we both get pics of multiple times...but a few bucks he gets pics of that we dont and we never see them?..and some bucks we get pics of that he never gets pics of or never sees...home ranges? Not sure? But very interesting.

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

It's interesting how different properties can be so different...on one property we run 3 cameras on a little over 200 acres and the majority of bucks we see we have pics of...with the exception of the peak of the rut...during that narrow window we will occasionally see a buck we have no history with?...also we will have a buck disappear only to reappear later.
And maybe a topic for another day....but one neighbor we have has the exact same management goals and we have an open line of communication, share pics, etc....and its amazing...some bucks we both get pics of multiple times...but a few bucks he gets pics of that we dont and we never see them?..and some bucks we get pics of that he never gets pics of or never sees...home ranges? Not sure? But very interesting.

I get new bucks in December almost every year. I had a buck disappear a few weeks ago and thought he was dead. He showed back up, stayed a week and has vanished again. I almost shot him last week but decided against it. I can't decide wether he is 3.5 or 4.5 so he got to live. If my son sees him, he won't be so lucky.

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

What I meant was coverage area of cameras, Trigger area per camera X number of cameras to get total coverage area divided by acreage. I am betting most are less than .05 % of your land that is being monitored by cameras.

Bsk, what would you coverage percentage be?

 

[Andy S.]

I have to say, something is wrong in your camera placement. A camera per 5 acres and you're seeing bucks in person that aren't on camera? I have 500 acres, run 6-8 cams and we almost never see/kill a buck we don't have on cam. And that's over a 21-year timespan.

IMO, same 500 acre tract for 21 years is what makes your "situation" more of an anomaly when compared to most. Also, you are on your property A LOT more than most messing with/moving/checking cameras when compared to most other guys/hunters I know. I try not to disturb my properties, and definitely not disturbing them "just to check a camera". I check cameras when I am "in the area" hunting. I also try to hunt a new property every year, even if it means new public ground. Other than one 22 acre tract, I do not have the "historical knowledge" that you do for most of my tracts because I have not hunted them that long, thus I am always in learning mode learning lay of the land, neighbors and their management styles, nearby land use patterns, etc. Again, one size does not fit all when placing/running/checking trail cameras.

 

[Ski]

I am running a camera for every 5 acres and I see bucks while hunting that I have never gotten a picture of.

My cam count comes out to around 1 camera per 4 acres, although not evenly dispersed. They're mostly concentrated in spots where deer frequent. Although I do catch a couple bucks cruising through on cam and only ever see them once, I've yet to kill or personally see from stand a buck I didn't recognize. The possibility of that happening exists but it hasn't happened yet.

One big reason for that could be because the spots I hunt are also the spots where my cameras are. I probably hunt less than 5% of my property, and more yet it is surrounded 3 sides by a 10,000 acre state forest. Logic dictates that deer I'm completely unaware of move through without my knowing. I've just not seen it on camera or while hunting.

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

I bought my property in 2003.

 

[Ski]

IMO, same 500 acre tract for 21 years is what makes your "situation" more of an anomaly when compared to most. Also, you are on your property A LOT more than most messing with/moving/checking cameras when compared to most other guys/hunters I know. I try not to disturb my properties, and definitely not disturbing them "just to check a camera". I check cameras when I am "in the area" hunting. I also try to hunt a new property every year, even if it means new public ground. Other than one 22 acre tract, I do not have the "historical knowledge" that you do for most of my tracts because I have not hunted them that long, thus I am always in learning mode learning lay of the land, neighbors and their management styles, nearby land use patterns, etc. Again, one size does not fit all when placing/running/checking trail cameras.

Fair point. That continuity or lack thereof is a factor I hadn't considered. I've been hunting one particular property for nearly 40yrs and running cams for about a decade. I'm as familiar and comfortable in those woods as I am my house. It's a completely different dynamic than when I'm hunting public ground or permission properties. I do have a couple places I've been hunting in recent years that I'm building familiarity with and for sure it is a learning curve.

 

[BSK]

IMO, same 500 acre tract for 21 years is what makes your "situation" more of an anomaly when compared to most. Also, you are on your property A LOT more than most messing with/moving/checking cameras when compared to most other guys/hunters I know. I try not to disturb my properties, and definitely not disturbing them "just to check a camera". I check cameras when I am "in the area" hunting. I also try to hunt a new property every year, even if it means new public ground. Other than one 22 acre tract, I do not have the "historical knowledge" that you do for most of my tracts because I have not hunted them that long, thus I am always in learning mode learning lay of the land, neighbors and their management styles, nearby land use patterns, etc. Again, one size does not fit all when placing/running/checking trail cameras.

This is all true.

 

[BSK]

The more I read through these posts, I'm beginning to consider hunters are using trail-cameras very differently than I do. If someone places cell cams near their stands, and then watches the pictures to decide which stand to hunt or whether it's even worth hunting, I think that is a huge mistake. Even with our very limited visual distances (can rarely see more than 50 yards from each stand), there could be so many travel routs past that stand that would be killable but would never get caught by the camera.

I've got my cameras placed at the highest odds travel locations, just trying to catch as many deer on cam as possible. If a spot slows down, I move the camera somewhere else. Then when looking at pictures, I'll see a particular buck on 2 or 3 cameras, and I'll step back and look at how his travel route between those camera locations might look in general, and then begin looking at stands we already have in place in that general location (we have a stand for every 9 acres). Usually, I'll find we have 6 to 10 stands located in what I believe that bucks general travel route is. I'll then rotate through those stands based on wind direction that hunt. This technique has proven fairly successful at picking off THAT buck.

 

[WilcoKen]

If someone places cell cams near their stands, and then watches the pictures to decide which stand to hunt or whether it's even worth hunting, I think that is a huge mistake.

I think many, many guys are doing this very thing. Especially with cell cams the day of or night before they hunt. I just don't think it honors the sport. I will take my physical observations of scrapes, rubs, tracks, trails, funnels and "senses" over pictures/videos any day.

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

I have owned the land that I primarily hunt for 20 years so I am pretty comfortable and confident in my stand locations by scouting, observations, thermals, and how the deer use the geographical features on the property. I enjoy cameras but i don't use them to dictate where i hunt.

 

[Hillbilly Hunter]

The more I read through these posts, I'm beginning to consider hunters are using trail-cameras very differently than I do. If someone places cell cams near their stands, and then watches the pictures to decide which stand to hunt or whether it's even worth hunting, I think that is a huge mistake. Even with our very limited visual distances (can rarely see more than 50 yards from each stand), there could be so many travel routs past that stand that would be killable but would never get caught by the camera.

I've got my cameras placed at the highest odds travel locations, just trying to catch as many deer on cam as possible. If a spot slows down, I move the camera somewhere else. Then when looking at pictures, I'll see a particular buck on 2 or 3 cameras, and I'll step back and look at how his travel route between those camera locations might look in general, and then begin looking at stands we already have in place in that general location (we have a stand for every 9 acres). Usually, I'll find we have 6 to 10 stands located in what I believe that bucks general travel route is. I'll then rotate through those stands based on wind direction that hunt. This technique has proven fairly successful at picking off THAT buck.

Good post

 

[BSK]

I think many, many guys are doing this very thing. Especially with cell cams the day of or night before they hunt. I just don't think it honors the sport. I will take my physical observations of scrapes, rubs, tracks, trails, funnels and "senses" over pictures/videos any day.

Because we move our stands around long before season starts (usually mid-August), I have no way of knowing what the patterns will be like that year. I use my knowledge of 1) how deer use terrain in the area, 2) past patterns, 3) any changes to the habitat that might attract/repel deer movement, and 4) past sign concentrations to place those stands. Trail-cameras produce no seriously useful input.

 

[BSK]

I have owned the land that I primarily hunt for 20 years so I am pretty comfortable and confident in my stand locations by scouting, observations, thermals, and how the deer use the geographical features on the property. I enjoy cameras but i don't use them to dictate where i hunt.

When review trail-camera data, I often find a particular buck I'm interested in is using one part of my property (perhaps 1/3 to 1/2 the property). I will then focus my hunting in that part of the property in an attempt to kill that buck. By trying to pinpoint his exact route and time from cameras? Nope, don't even attempt that. I use my scouting skills and knowledge of how deer use the terrain to go after that buck in a fairly large area (say 150-acre section of the property). Without the cameras, I would not of that particular buck's existence or what section of the property he is using most often, so the cameras absolutely help. But I don't use them to try and pin-point an exact location to hunt him from.

 

[Ski]

It only makes sense cams and stands will be placed in same spots because they share the same purpose of being in close proximity to the bulk of deer movement. Most of my cams are congregated around stand sites watching the exact same trails.

 

[Outdoor Enthusiast]

It only makes sense cams and stands will be placed in same spots because they share the same purpose of being in close proximity to the bulk of deer movement. Most of my cams are congregated around stand sites watching the exact same trails.

Good point. Except for me, there are situations in which I am monitoring scrapes with trail cams, but I don't locate stands over the scrape. Usually I am somewhere along the travel corridor to/from the scrape.

 

[DMD]

Say it louder for those in the back. This cannot be emphasized enough. Like I said, put a cell camera in my closet and you might get me 2x per day, and you will have no idea what is going on the rest of the day in "my house". Same can be said for deer in "their house".

Now...put it in the pantry, and you'll get me at least 32 times a day

 

[huvrman]

I will stand behind what I've said many, many times. Trail-cameras are the greatest management tool every invented. I would also say I've learned more about deer behavior from trail-cams than any other source. This knowledge has made me a much more successful hunter.

Notice I did NOT say they are a great scouting tool! My eyes and my brain are the best scouting tool.

Back before the days of cell cams, trail cams, trail cams that used film, I actually put strings across trails to determine direction of travel. Now that's living'!

 

[BSK]

Good point. Except for me, there are situations in which I am monitoring scrapes with trail cams, but I don't locate stands over the scrape. Usually I am somewhere along the travel corridor to/from the scrape.

This. I rarely have cams near stands. The few that are near stands are located in high traffic areas, hence both cam and stand. But most of the traditional scrapes I camera monitor are not hunted (because most of the activity at those scrapes is nocturnal).

 

[BSK]

Back before the days of cell cams, trail cams, trail cams that used film, I actually put strings across trails to determine direction of travel. Now that's living'!

I remember the devices that use a string across a trail, and when a deer walked into the string it triggered a timer that told you what time the string was broken. My how things have changed.

 

[fairchaser]

Concur on management tool (along with trigger restraint), as cameras have taught all of us so much over last few decades, especially those of us who have had the opportunity to run numerous cameras over large contiguous tracts (18k+ acres). With that said, cameras capture itty bitty "snapshots" in time, but they miss 10,000x the things they capture. I see hunters nowadays, with many being 20+ year seasoned hunters, put all of their faith in trail/cell camera data. That irks me beyond belief. At one point in time, they all knew how to scout, read the landscape, read the deer/buck sign, look for pinch points and travel corridors, etc. For "some", I belief "relying on camera data" is just a way to justify being lazy and opting out of going to the woods, essentially their excuse for why they have not been hunting lately. My .02

Sadly, as I get older, I'm less inclined to trek through the woods looking for sign and mapping buck routes. Guilty as charged Andy. Cameras are the lazy man's way to scout. I've noticed that older bucks are wise to cameras and will avoid them. I've got one that saw the camera and the next two shots he was darting away. I never got another picture. The lesson here is to not put all your confidence in what the camera is telling you. It's only part of the full picture.

 

[Creek]

This. I rarely have cams near stands. The few that are near stands are located in high traffic areas, hence both cam and stand. But most of the traditional scrapes I camera monitor are not hunted (because most of the activity at those scrapes is nocturnal).

I don't see how you keep up with all your cameras, numbers/data and other info.
And it seems like every single year something changes, and you discover something new.

 

[kaizen leader]

I've got my Edge camera up about 18'. It looks down on a Trophy Rock that I placed where there has always been a lot of game traffic. I haven't had a deer look up at it yet and works great. I don't know if the buck are weary of it but I rarely get bucks. A lot of everything else. I probably should move it but I enjoy watching all the animals and their behavior, except for the tree rats. Can't hardly find them in the picture.
I had to put it up high using sticks because somehow a previous one got the motion detector stabbed. Maybe a buck but pretty sure it was one of those damn humans. Never got that in a picture and can't figure out why. In over a year I've only got two humans.
I am saving the spot for a nice big doe at the end of the season. She's a regular with two late fawns. I was hoping she would bring in a big buck. She may be ready next week.

 

[BSK]

I don't see how you keep up with all your cameras, numbers/data and other info.

Relational databases (dBase V), spreadsheets (Excel), and GIS (ArcView 2.3). Every camera location I've ever used is marked on the GIS layer for cameras for that year in my GIS. All data for that camera location is entered into the GIS/databases/spreadsheets. All of the camera data for the year entered into a separate spreadsheet for that year. And a year's camera data spreadsheet includes all of the camera deer counts (for herd dynamics and population calculations), the list of unique bucks and their characteristics, a sheet for the dates each buck was photographed, and an over-all series for all years side by side so I can see comparisons.

And it seems like every single year something changes, and you discover something new.

And that is why I say trail-cameras are the greatest management tool ever invented. I have learned more about deer population dynamics and behavior from trail-cameras than any other tool at my disposal.

 

[BSK]

In addition to the above, I'm also running a couple of research projects from my own property's trail-camera data. The first is looking at the times bucks are photographed. I go through every picture/video and get the time, date, and age of every buck photographed and enter that in a database. I can then analyze and graph when bucks of different ages are photographed moving around. Currently, I'm only looking at the months of November and December, because that is when we are hunting (and the times I'm most interested in). We do not hunt in October, hence data from October would be of unhunted deer, while data from November and December would be of hunted deer. This apples-to-oranges comparison is why I haven't calculated any October data. Although, someday I will, just to see the differences.

I'm also running a study on buck behavior at scrapes. I use the entire season's data for this, as I'm mainly interested in behavior when visiting a scrape, which shouldn't be affected by hunting pressure. For every buck visit caught on camera, I record the date, time, buck age, and which of the primary behaviors he exhibits: working the overhanging limb, pawing out the scrape, and peeing in the scrape (and whether he pees over his hocks or avoids peeing over his hocks). It is interesting to see the differences in behavior at scrapes and how that is influenced by the buck's age.