TN G.O.A.T Hunter
Well-Known Member
How is the deer herd in your area or what could we do to improve it?
TN Deer Population
- Thread starter TN G.O.A.T Hunter
- Start date
Dennis
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2019
- Messages
- 828
Would you mind dropping off a few 160 class bucks?
TN G.O.A.T Hunter
Well-Known Member
I wish
Omega
Well-Known Member
As I don't hunt horns, I would say pretty good. I'm in Unit L, so always fill the freezer for me and at least two friends every year. Every now and then I take buck when they show up, but I honestly don't care how big the rack is, I have never even measured any of the deer I've taken, just counted points.
TN G.O.A.T Hunter
Well-Known Member
from management or herd stand point do you see a lot of older bucks? in my area overall I hear folks see does but aren't seeing a lot of bucks period. got cameras over salt right now haven't seen any bucks or fawns yet.
BSK
Well-Known Member
Depends on your location. In the area where I do most of my work (western Highland Rim), the deer herd is just recovering from a big EHD die-off in 2019. In addition, herd health suffered considerably from last year's drought. But population-wise, I would say the herd is just fine. Health-wise, we will have to see after last year's total disaster.
TN G.O.A.T Hunter
Well-Known Member
what do you think we could do to have bigger bucks or see bucks like 160 class more
BSK
Well-Known Member
Peak fawn drop generally isn't until the last week of May and first two weeks of June, so not a lot on the ground right now. And don't be concerned about bucks caught on camera in summer. Most bucks have a different summer range than hunting-season fall range. In essence, what you see on camera now may have little to nothing to do with what is around in October/November.
BSK
Well-Known Member
Hunt near big agricultural fields, and don't kill your best middle-aged bucks.
TN G.O.A.T Hunter
Well-Known Member
we don't have agricultural fields in my area its pretty rough country. small fields about it
BSK
Well-Known Member
Then don't expect many 160-class bucks. That's just the reality of deer in TN.
TN G.O.A.T Hunter
Well-Known Member
they are some in my area just rough area to hunt, not managed really good
BSK
Well-Known Member
Even on the best managed properties, 160-class bucks are rare. The average mature buck in TN grosses 120-125. That said, the bell-curve distribution of possible scores exceeds 100 gross inches top to bottom. On the same property, I've seen mature bucks grossing in the 50s and mature bucks grossing in the 160s. But both of those are the statistical extremes. Most will be 110-135.
Omega
Well-Known Member
That's what I have seen in my area, but on occasion I will see older deer down along yellow creek that never seem to venture out during the day. When I purchased my small plot, I seen a few large antlered deer crossing onto my property, but never captured one on camera so they must have traveled along the gasline between properties. Fort Campbell will sometimes get large deer, but as you said, it's the exception not the rule.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Depends on your definition of "improvements".
The short answer (in Tennessee) is nothing.
For nearly all of TN, no matter what you do (with free range deer herds here) you are not going to have many bucks gross over 150 no matter how long they live.
Look at the 18,000 acre Ames Plantation.
After decades of really good deer & trophy buck management,
how many bucks over 150 were killed?
Can they be counted on one hand or two hands?
Whether TN hunters want to believe this or not, this remains the reality of free-roaming TN deer herds. Again, look at the Ames Plantation, where there is lots of agricultural fields, great habitat overall, and above average soils for TN.
Personally, I've been involved with deer management now on thousands of acres for decades (most particularly in Stewart Co., TN). No matter how much someone may want to convince you otherwise, you cannot get blood from a turnip. And you need, imo, at least 5,000 contiguous acres under "trophy" buck management to prevent mostly your neighbors from reaping the benefits of your intense management. Rutting bucks are going to roam, and even with 5,000 contiguous acres, "your" bucks may spend more of their time (during the rut) on other people's properties.
While I agree areas containing big agricultural fields may increase antler scores by 5 to 15 points (that's might turn an average 120-class MATURE buck into a 130-class one), your single best way to grow larger antlered older bucks is simply do not kill your largest antlered 2 1/2 & 3 1/2-yr-old bucks!
What we're talking about is letting a 115-130-class 2 1/2 to 3 1/2-yr-old buck "walk". While a few hunters can & do regularly do this, it's a very tall order for most hunters. This is in part because these young bucks (with above average antler genetics) have antler APPEARING much larger than their reality. This is due to the bucks not being old enough to have completely grown their skeletal systems (i.e. small bodies make average antlers appear larger).
Consequently, hunters' antler high grading becomes the #1 obstacle to producing more larger antlered mature bucks. You may personally stop shooting your best stock, but it's usually unreasonable to expect all the other hunters within 5 miles of your hunting area to do this as well. And it only takes one other hunter a couple or 3 miles away to kill a particular promising young buck you and your friends may have let walk.
Last edited:
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
The most practical plan I've come up with for myself is to simply avoid killing any bucks under the age of 5 1/2. This improves my odds of taking mature bucks scoring 140-ish instead of the more average 120-ish.
But again, you cannot get blood out of a turnip.
If you want realistic odds at bucks (of any age) scoring over 140, and especially over 150,
you need to look at some other states where the conditions (particularly the soil) are capable of more regularly producing antlers of this size.
A 150-plus class buck in TN might be 1 in a thousand.
A 150-plus class buck in KY might be 1 in one hundred.
Sure, there are pockets in both states where things may be a little better or worse.
But 150-plus class whitetails are relatively much rarer than outfitters and others after your money might have you thinking.
From a game agency management perspective, I think the most practical (and fair to the most hunters) deer "management" is simply to have mostly "either-sex" deer hunting with a statewide 2-buck limit. Other issues include lengths of seasons and weapons allowed (archery, shotgun only, centerfires, etc.).
Some trophist buck hunters will disagree, as they might prefer a 1-buck limit (like is the case in the State of KY). So if you want bigger antlered bucks, consider going to KY (or about any state you pick that's north and/or west of TN).
However, if TWRA "managed" the TN statewide deer seasons EXACTLY like KY does, i.e. 1-buck limit, 2-week gun season, etc.), I doubt our average buck scores would increase by over 5 inches. There is not blood in the Tennessee Turnip.
But again, you cannot get blood out of a turnip.
If you want realistic odds at bucks (of any age) scoring over 140, and especially over 150,
you need to look at some other states where the conditions (particularly the soil) are capable of more regularly producing antlers of this size.
A 150-plus class buck in TN might be 1 in a thousand.
A 150-plus class buck in KY might be 1 in one hundred.
Sure, there are pockets in both states where things may be a little better or worse.
But 150-plus class whitetails are relatively much rarer than outfitters and others after your money might have you thinking.
From a game agency management perspective, I think the most practical (and fair to the most hunters) deer "management" is simply to have mostly "either-sex" deer hunting with a statewide 2-buck limit. Other issues include lengths of seasons and weapons allowed (archery, shotgun only, centerfires, etc.).
Some trophist buck hunters will disagree, as they might prefer a 1-buck limit (like is the case in the State of KY). So if you want bigger antlered bucks, consider going to KY (or about any state you pick that's north and/or west of TN).
However, if TWRA "managed" the TN statewide deer seasons EXACTLY like KY does, i.e. 1-buck limit, 2-week gun season, etc.), I doubt our average buck scores would increase by over 5 inches. There is not blood in the Tennessee Turnip.
Last edited:
TN G.O.A.T Hunter
Well-Known Member
good points.
TheLBLman
Well-Known Member
Your experience is not unusual.
The simple reason is simply because there aren't that many bucks in TN with 140-plus class antlers.
However, sometimes it may appear there's more than there's actually not.
Let's say you see a 140-class buck periodically on your property.
There may be a dozen other property owners within a couple miles of you, also seeing that same buck on their property.
There are typically two (or more) "seasonal" range shifts where the deer move their core areas commonly 1/2 to 2 miles. Then, during the rut, the bucks frequently roam nightly or daily over 2 linear miles, maybe making a large circle (encompassing thousands of acres) about every 48 hours.
We as landowners & hunters may "like" to think "our" bucks spend most their time just on "our" property. I've found this to be the opposite of reality, even on some very large tracts of land.
But as BSK will tell you, it's always site specific, and unique factors can & do exist. I'm mainly talking about free-ranging rural farmland & wilderness type area deer. Urban deer may have much smaller ranges and do much less range shifting.
By the way, Ft. Campbell is mostly in Kentucky, the "Fort" being surrounded mostly on 3 sides by a statewide 1-buck limit. Then, Ft. Campbell itself has a 1-buck limit coupled with more limited buck hunting than the surrounding areas in either TN or KY. We "should" see more larger antlered bucks within Ft. Campbell than on most private properties in TN. Ft. Campbell also contains some of the best soils in KY or TN along with great deer habitat.
TN G.O.A.T Hunter
Well-Known Member
What about mature, not score wise could anything change or be done to have more mature deer on landscape. 4-6 yr olds
Omega
Well-Known Member
What would be the point if not for score? Younger deer are better tasting, so that can't be it.
