TN average?

[BSK]

I wouldn't argue with Bobby, though.

Really? I've never been that impressed with him. He's got his head so far up Kroll's rectum that I don't know how he can say anything.

 

[TN RDG RNR]

I would think 130"-140" is top end on main frame 10 ptrs in Tn. at any age.

 

[landman]

I wouldn't argue with Bobby, though.

Really? I've never been that impressed with him. He's got his head so far up Kroll's rectum that I don't know how he can say anything.

Well I'm glad you stepped out on this...I kinda feel the same,
he came through the NWTF Show 2 years ago stopping at booths trying
to sell his book. Stopped at mine and was bragging about this very same deer how it was going to be the state record typical...

Guess when I pay for a booth and people come in trying to sell me stuff without a booth, just turns me off

 

[thickethunter]

TN RDG RNR I would agree for deer under 4. Many deer that are left to fully mature (4.5 or older) in TN will grow past 140. (Not opinion, I have two on the wall and have seen a few more) if they have enough nutrition. The problem is few make it that far and the ones that do are smart and hard to see, even harder to kill.

 

[richmanbarbeque]

The key to his statement is "ten pointer". That eliminates a whole class of deer that we are debating over that would allow the numbers to be skewed.

I didn't catch that part of the statement. Still his prediction is high.

Probably right but it was worth mentioning.

 

[scn]

I did not misunderstand or misread. When the "resident experts" talk about it, especially when arguing against lower limits and shorter gun shorter gun season, they consistently say it does not matter how old a deer gets in Tennessee it will grow no bigger antlers.

I've not once read anyone saying that.

x2

 

[scn]

TN RDG RNR I would agree for deer under 4. Many deer that are left to fully mature (4.5 or older) in TN will grow past 140. (Not opinion, I have two on the wall and have seen a few more) if they have enough nutrition. The problem is few make it that far and the ones that do are smart and hard to see, even harder to kill.

I guess it depends on your definition of many. Your statement is not realistic for a lot of the state.

 

[Truedouble]

I would think 130"-140" is top end on main frame 10 ptrs in Tn. at any age.

Top end 10 points in some parts of Tn. have and will go 170+. Now if your talking top end "average" of any age, like as in take 10 mature bucks and only 2 out of 10 would go 130-140 while the other's went lower I'd still say you might be a little low if your talking mature bucks in the better areas of Tn., but probably not by much.

 

[thickethunter]

TN RDG RNR I would agree for deer under 4. Many deer that are left to fully mature (4.5 or older) in TN will grow past 140. (Not opinion, I have two on the wall and have seen a few more) if they have enough nutrition. The problem is few make it that far and the ones that do are smart and hard to see, even harder to kill.

I guess it depends on your definition of many. Your statement is not realistic for a lot of the state.

I am not saying all TN deer have the ability to max out above 140, but more would make it than most people believe. I have seen 140 inch or better bucks in Shelby, McMinn, Rhea, Anderson, Roane, and Giles county in the last 10 seasons. The genetics are here, it is just hard for anyone to pass up a big trophy size 3.5 or 4.5 buck to let it become a monster.

 

[ROUGH COUNTRY HUNTER]

i am curious to how these statistics come about,around here you just give whether its a male or female,and how many points,i never even have anyone to look and verify it

 

[102]

Here is a "fact" for you:

In my travels all over the Southeast, (Tn., N.C., Al. Ky., Ga., Ill.) I have found the average "shooter" buck will grow larger antlers at a younger age as I head farther North, or West.

In fact, my bow kill score average has grown to the point where now I "AVERAGE" a 140 inch buck almost EVERY year...ON PUBLIC LAND! And these bucks AVERAGE 4.5.



Anyone can say ANYTHING about ANYTHING on a computer. It does NOT make it TRUE.

I assure you, WITHOUT A SINGLE DOUBT AT ALL, that there are NOT any 3.5 y/o (and maybe even 4.5) deer in ANY state that AVERAGE those numbers (for the state). Ten point, or NOT.

RIDICULOUS.

And THIS is exactly what is WRONG with our expectations today, in deer hunting. They are EXTREMELY UN-REALISTIC!

 

[Headhunter]

Some on here need to be a politician. They can sure squirm like one. Hilarious.

 

[TheLBLman]

As hunters, we tend to "harvest"/kill more from the top 20% (of antler size) of all age classes. I'd speculate we collectively kill at least twice as many annually from the top 20% as we do from the bottom 20%, particularly among the 2 1/2 and 3 1/2-yr-old bucks. This gives many of us a skewed idea as to what is the "average" buck of a particular age. "Average" killed is much larger antlered than average living.

 

[BSK]

TN RDG RNR I would agree for deer under 4. Many deer that are left to fully mature (4.5 or older) in TN will grow past 140. (Not opinion, I have two on the wall and have seen a few more) if they have enough nutrition. The problem is few make it that far and the ones that do are smart and hard to see, even harder to kill.

I guess it depends on your definition of many. Your statement is not realistic for a lot of the state.

I am not saying all TN deer have the ability to max out above 140, but more would make it than most people believe. I have seen 140 inch or better bucks in Shelby, McMinn, Rhea, Anderson, Roane, and Giles county in the last 10 seasons. The genetics are here, it is just hard for anyone to pass up a big trophy size 3.5 or 4.5 buck to let it become a monster.

Huge difference between what mature bucks can grow and what most grow. Sure, mature 10-pointers in TN can grow 140+ racks. But most don't.

 

[BSK]

I wouldn't argue with Bobby, though.

Really? I've never been that impressed with him. He's got his head so far up Kroll's rectum that I don't know how he can say anything.

I'm mainly saying that it is difficult to argue with his experience hunting whitetails in TN. I know nothing of the QDMA opinions, only that he has killed some impressive deer under difficult conditions, definitely not in exclusive, controlled, trophy managed, and/or "TV star" conditions, but real world, private and public land, pressured, old bucks. And he has done it consistently.

I have no opinion of him as a hunter. Only his knowledge of deer, deer biology, and deer management.

 

[BSK]

i am curious to how these statistics come about,around here you just give whether its a male or female,and how many points,i never even have anyone to look and verify it

From the sample of bucks the TWRA actually lays hands on. Some hunters never use one the check stations the TWRA mans during the opening weekend of MZ and gun, hence have never had a deer aged, weighed and measured.

 

[BSK]

Some on here need to be a politician. They can sure squirm like one. Hilarious.

I don't know exactly what you are referring to, but once again you seem bent on trying to twist the things people say to try and make your point--a point that has been shown to be innaccurate over and over and over again. Age is not the determining factor in any buck's antler size. In TN, an 80-class buck can be any age, from yearling to fully mature. If age is the determining factor in antler size, why can any age buck have the same antler size?

 

[BSK]

"Average" killed is much larger antlered than average living.

Exactly. When looking at data on average gross antler scores by age, from areas where the averages for the free-ranging population are known, then comparing the averages for harvested bucks, the average gross score for each age-class of the harvested bucks is usually 10-15 inches higher than the average for that age-class in the free-ranging population. Hunters gun for the largest antlers they see, passing up small antlered bucks, which skews the harvested averages too high.

 

[Andy S.]

1. A 150 10 point, 2.5 yrs old taken in Robertson Co.

Do you have before and after kill pics of this deer and more specifically his teeth? If so, I'd love to see them.

 

[Andy S.]

Good deal, I've never seen a 150" 2.5 year old that I can recall. Can you upload the pics here for all to see, have them on email or only in person?

 

[Andy S.]

Cool deal LSU, PM coming your way.

 

[Headhunter]

Nice twist BSK. Of course different size racks can be on the same age bucks, whatever that may mean, and it can happen anywhere there are deer. I would guess more times than not though, a buck with a better rack has some age on it. If that is not true then why does basically EVERY single hunt club, outfitter, guided hunts, etc. ALL over the united states base their hunting on age of bucks? Why does the TWRA have restrictions on some areas? I am guessing to help more bucks get some age on them.

I still say, shoot a buck, any buck, especially a 1-1/2 or a 2-1/2 year old buck, after he is dead, take the him and place him in Kentucky, Illinois, Iowa, etc. and tell me how much bigger his antlers get after he is left there for however long. A dead buck is just that DEAD. It cracks me up how many people cannot understand a buck NEEDS to be alive to be able to do anything, and all the TWISTED arguments that claim helping more bucks live to an older age in Tennessee is a waste of time are crazy. Sure the more mature bucks are hard to see, much less kill, but to kill as many young bucks as this state does every year (especially with increasing numbers of hunters and the loss of hunting lands every year) is beyond me.

I do not care what anyone kills, absolutely no care, but with as many does as we have and from what the east Tennessee hunters post on here that they have no deer, then, the buck limit, if anything needs to be reduced or restricted (AFTER the first buck) in some way.

I will not forget or let anyone forget what was posted on here (I cannot say who it was) I understood it to mean the following
"but that it was glad it has been proven for most of Tennessee that age has no influence on size of antler size".

I cannot post the other ridiculous thing I was told personally but it is sad for sure.

 

[TheLBLman]

Good deal, I've never seen a 150" 2.5 year old that I can recall. Can you upload the pics here for all to see, have them on email or only in person?

I've seen one from Obion County that grossed 146, and one from Stewart grossing @ 135. Am regularly seeing 2 1/2's that gross in the 115 to 125 range, of course, most are killed because they have such large antlers. :)

Of additional interest, and while I have no way to prove it was the same deer, I believe it was. I believe a particular spike buck turned into a 120-class 2 1/2 the next year. What was most noteworthy, was his extremely wide rack. He was seen several times in the same "spot" crossing a gravel road. The next year, my best friend killed a buck aged at 3 1/2 with a very wide rack (22 inches) in that same "spot", dropping that buck in the middle of the gravel road (and it was safe & legal). That buck gross scored 167.

Some believed this buck may have been 3 1/2 when a wide 120-class, then became a 4 1/2 with nearly 170 inches of bone. However, that much growth from one year to the next is more indicative of going from 2 1/2 to 3 1/2. All I can say is the tooth wear indicated 3 1/2 when killed, and no other bucks with such a wide rack have been seen before or since in that area.

Again, "average" killed and "average" living are very different numbers.

 

[Andy S.]

I too have seen a few in west TN in the 130-145" range (over 19 years of hunting and looking at hundreds of dead bucks), but they are SOOOOOO RARE at that age, that I like to see them with my own eyes and better yet inspect the teeth in person. A true 150" 2.5 yr old free ranging wild buck (all up tines, no junk/trash) is a world class buck ANYWHERE deer live. I would venture to say it is about as rare, if not more, than a 200" typical.

 

[Andy S.]

Again, "average" killed and "average" living are very different numbers.

VERY true, yet so hard for so many to grasp.

 

[Winchester]

You will always have the freak of nature, such as the 150" 2.5 yr old mentioned here, but this is FAR from normal!
I think another huge misconception here here is the large fluctuation in size per geographic location in TN. While I know every area grows the occasional huge rack and a few good racks per year. Some areas average many many more inches of antler per age class, in some of the better soil and habitat areas of TN vs much of the remainder of the state.

 

[TheLBLman]

There are 1 or more every year taken that are 2.5 to 3.5 That are between 135 to 150.

A 3.5 that scores over 135 is not unusual at all.
Just ain't average.

 

[BSK]

LSUtiger,

The point many are trying to make is that just about anywhere can produce rare top-end bucks at young ages. I've seen, aged, and measured them myself. What is critical is not the very top-end, but the size of the vast majority of bucks of that age in that area, and that will be FAR lower than the top-end. Now I realize most big-antler hunters only care about top-end potential, but when you go down that road, anything is physically possible anywhere. Extremely poor habitat WILL produce the rare whopper buck. But that doesn't mean the area has good "big buck potential." Anywhere can grow a genetic freak.

 

[BSK]

BSK,

I agree with some of you statment; but not sure where you are putting a freak buck in the picture. I don't consider either of the ones I have mentioned to be freaks. You may not at all be saying that, when you started about freak bucks, I quess you lost me. Maybe a little more clarification is needed. When you mention size or you talking bone or body weight?
Thanks

Unless you are talking about one very specific high-quality habitat area, 130 to 150-class 2 1/2 year-old bucks in TN are the very, very top-end of what is possible in TN. In essence, the top 0.1% of 2 1/2 year-old bucks. They are, by definition, genetic freaks (bucks that genetically make up only the tiniest percentage of all bucks).

Now I do know of very specific ultra-high-quality places that can and do produce 150-class 2 1/2s in the South. But again, these are very, very unique situations.

 

[gator-n-buck]

Really don't worry about this triva stuff. Just try to do my best and have fun. The state of TN is a great place to hunt and TWRA does a good job.

Lifes not perfect and hunting is no different.

Carry on and I will check back in on page 15..... :)