Suppressor stamp

[gatodoc]

Am i likely to have to produce my original suppressor documentation for a TWRA office or will a phone picture or a copy suffice?

im told to keep the stamp with the supressor at all times but I'm afraid I'll lose or damage it carrying on all hunting trips.

 

[Mausermeister]

I keep a pdf copy on my phone and paper copy in the gun case.

 

[skipperbrown]

A copy *should* suffice. If the LEO wants to check and see if it's yours, all he needs is the serial number and he can run it on the ATF database. It will show who has the stamp, nothing else. Assuming it is you, you should be good to go. The problem is that many LEOs don't know the law and this can cause a lot of problems including temporary confiscation. I carry a mini copy of mine and keep it folded up in my first aid kit.

 

[hillbillyfab]

Interesting to read the replies. I too keep copies on my phone, but I also took copies of my paperwork and shrunk it down to 4x6 or 3x5 card size and laminated them. I made several of these cards and try to keep them in my gun cases and bags. I also took one and rolled it up best I could and shoved it into the pistol grip of the rifle I use my 30 caliber can on the majority of time.

 

[Easy3actual]

I have a photo copy in the storage compartment of my 300blk. You shouldn't need the original stamp. I asked the ATF what would happen if my original stamp was destroyed. They said they would make a copy of the one they have and mail it to me. You do not get another physical stamp.

 

[7mm08]

A copy *should* suffice. If the LEO wants to check and see if it's yours, all he needs is the serial number and he can run it on the ATF database. It will show who has the stamp, nothing else. Assuming it is you, you should be good to go. The problem is that many LEOs don't know the law and this can cause a lot of problems including temporary confiscation. I carry a mini copy of mine and keep it folded up in my first aid kit.

Isn't it a Federal law violation for a law officer including TWRA even to " temporarily confiscate " a suppressor?

 

[TnKen]

Isn't it a Federal law violation for a law officer including TWRA even to " temporarily confiscate " a suppressor?

i don't know about "temporary", but LE can take them if they are going to charge for possession of a prohibited weapon.

 

[skipperbrown]

Isn't it a Federal law violation for a law officer including TWRA even to " temporarily confiscate " a suppressor?

It may be improper and may be illegal. The problem is that a lot of LEO aren't familiar with the all the ATF policies and Federal laws and can make wrong decisions. However, if a LEO wrongly confiscates a suppressor thinking he is preventing a crime (like he thinks you should have the original stamp in your possession), I doubt he would get into any trouble even though it is an incredible PITA for the owner.

 

[Wiley]

I keep a folder in my truck with copies of all my approved forms. The cover of the folder has the NFA phone # and fax# if some LEO is so inclined to need to inquire. Or I'll make the call for them if need be.

 

[BlackBelt]

BATFE has always said to carry a legible COPY of your stamp paperwork with your NFA items (suppressor, machinegun, SBS or SBR, AOW) and to store the original in a safe place.
I havent seen directives from them concerning having copies on your electronic devices but I havent been looking for them either so I dont have that answer.
I always carry two copies for each NFA item that I am using. When I have had LEO interactions in the field for compliance checks I do not like to give my only copy to a deputy. I make sure I always have one copy with me and one for them. Thats not required but is best practice.
An officer may take control of your NFA item while he is doing an investigation or if you are not in compliance with the regulations and/or are being arrested. In past interactions I have had deputies call local BATFE agents for clarification on exactly what they are looking at when viewing my paperwork. Most of the time investigations have gone very smoothly. I hand them my paperwork and point out my name, the serial number box on the form and the approval date. The officers typically have smiled and said "Have a nice day" and that was the end of it.

Edited to add:
The regulations say to keep the paperwork WITH the NFA device. Not keep it "in the truck" or "back at the tent" or "over at my cousins house".
Keep your copies with you in the field. I fold mine up and put them in a small ziplock baggie (for water/rain proofing purposes).
One other thing about leaving copies in your vehicle is that if your vehicle is burglarized while you are in the field the thief now has access to your address and your NFA items at that address (unless you made a trust with a different address). Plus, now if you call law-enforcement to make a report about the vehicle burglary and the officer asks to see your paperwork...it is gone. That could go bad in a number of ways.
Just keep the copies on you.

 

[Wiley]

One other thing about leaving copies in your vehicle is that if your vehicle is burglarized while you are in the field ...... and the officer asks to see your paperwork...it is gone. That could go bad in a number of ways.
Just keep the copies on you.

I don't know anybody that leaves their originals in their vehicle, or for that matter carries their originals around with them. My originals are in a safe deposit box at the credit union. And I have other copies stored in another place. So, I agree it wouldn't be the best scenario to have my copies stolen but I am comfortable with my folder being in my truck while knowing that my originals are 99.9% safe. YMMV.

 

[Dirtcop]

Am i likely to have to produce my original suppressor documentation for a TWRA office or will a phone picture or a copy suffice?

im told to keep the stamp with the supressor at all times but I'm afraid I'll lose or damage it carrying on all hunting trips.

I was told by ATF, as they confiscated my "solvent traps" that a copy of the paperwork on my phone is adequate if checked.

 

[skipperbrown]

I was told by ATF, as they confiscated my "solvent traps" that a copy of the paperwork on my phone is adequate if checked.

This statement gives rise to a bunch of questions. First, did they have a search warrant or just come to the door and request you give them up? I guess you were presumed guilty by owning parts that could be assembled into a suppressor?

 

[Dirtcop]

This statement gives rise to a bunch of questions. First, did they have a search warrant or just come to the door and request you give them up? I guess you were presumed guilty by owning parts that could be assembled into a suppressor?

Yes. Just stopped by cuz I was on their list from a vendor that they had given a cease and desist order. They were nice but surely doing their job and their job alone.

 

[UCStandSitter]

I have copies everywhere, couple/three round the house, one in my wallet, one in my range bag, one in my truck. Is it warranted? Nope. But neither is harassment. As has been stated here, many LEOs aren't super familiar with the laws surrounding suppressors, Class 3s, etc. and I'd rather make any LEO encounter as simple and pleasant as possible. Bear in mind, this isn't an indictment of LEOs, used to be one and respect them (no way I'd go back now). I just know how little ongoing training the receive on the subject.

 

[TNTreeman]

What do you do if you lose your stamp?

 

[UCStandSitter]

What do you do if you lose your stamp?

Contact ATF and request a reprint. Outlined on their site. I never take my original out of the safe though

 

[skipperbrown]

Contact ATF and request a reprint. Outlined on their site. I never take my original out of the safe though

I think there is only one original for your suppressor. I don't think you will get an original physical stamp replacement, only a copy.

 

[skipperbrown]

Yes. Just stopped by cuz I was on their list from a vendor that they had given a cease and desist order. They were nice but surely doing their job and their job alone.

Did the agents come inside your home? Did they threaten you with arrest if you didn't give them your 'traps'? Had you filed a Form 1?

There has been a lot of discussion about this on other boards. I just wonder if they would come back with a search warrant if you didn't allow them in and told them to pound sand. If what you had was a bunch of parts that one day could be assembled as a suppressor, I'm not sure what they did is legal. An oil filter makes a pretty good suppressor. I'd like to see them confiscate a box full of oil filters because they one day could be converted into a suppressor.

 

[UCStandSitter]

I think there is only one original for your suppressor. I don't think you will get an original physical stamp replacement, only a copy.

Correct. It's not another stamp. Just a reprint

 

[TNTreeman]

Contact ATF and request a reprint. Outlined on their site. I never take my original out of the safe though

Will a reprint suffice?

 

[UCStandSitter]

Will a reprint suffice?

The one time I had to provide proof was to a LEO and it was just a copy. I can't speak to everyone and everything but in that particular instance it worked for me. In talking with other folks who have them over the years, it's how they roll as well. That said, I think the regulation states you have to have the stamp. Who knows honestly... It's the government, they want you in trouble, you're in trouble...

 

[BlackBelt]

There has been a lot An oil filter makes a pretty good suppressor. I'd like to see them confiscate a box full of oil filters because...

It has happened before. I dont recall many details because it wasnt in TN, but the BATFE had reason to believe a man was using oil filters as suppressors. They confiscated cases of filters the man had at his home.
I dont recall if he was charged.

 

[BlackBelt]

So...just communicated with a BATFE agent. Apparently they are no longer issuing physical stamps to e-file approvals. They email you a pdf, and you need to print it, or have a device (phone or tablet) with a copy of the approved stamped transfer pdf on it.

Just my take, (and I've been dealing with NFA since the early 80's), I would have a couple of paper copies with me whenever any NFA registered device was with me, and a copy on your phone as well if you feel the need.

This is just my opinion, not legal advice. And worth what you paid for it.

 

[UCStandSitter]

So...just communicated with a BATFE agent. Apparently they are no longer issuing physical stamps to e-file approvals. They email you a pdf, and you need to print it, or have a device (phone or tablet) with a copy of the approved stamped transfer pdf on it.

Just my take, (and I've been dealing with NFA since the early 80's), I would have a couple of paper copies with me whenever any NFA registered device was with me, and a copy on your phone as well if you feel the need.

This is just my opinion, not legal advice. And worth what you paid for it.

Huh. $200 for a PDF. For that money I want the pretty stamp.

 

[MUP]

Did the agents come inside your home? Did they threaten you with arrest if you didn't give them your 'traps'? Had you filed a Form 1?

There has been a lot of discussion about this on other boards. I just wonder if they would come back with a search warrant if you didn't allow them in and told them to pound sand. If what you had was a bunch of parts that one day could be assembled as a suppressor, I'm not sure what they did is legal. An oil filter makes a pretty good suppressor. I'd like to see them confiscate a box full of oil filters because they one day could be converted into a suppressor.

Interested in this as well. I just talked to a FFL dealer and he said that they are only considered illegal if they have a hole in them?

 

[Wiley]

Interested in this as well. I just talked to a FFL dealer and he said that they are only considered illegal if they have a hole in them?

Since the ATF makes it up as they go lots of times I can see them saying that a solvent trap that's threaded 1/2x28 WITHOUT an exit hole is "intent to construct" if the law abiding citizen also has weapon barrels that are threaded 1/2x28.
I don't trust the ATF to follow their own written directives.

 

[BlackBelt]

Interested in this as well. I just talked to a FFL dealer and he said that they are only considered illegal if they have a hole in them?

BATFE considers a single part of a suppressor to be a suppressor by itself (with a couple of exceptions like the barrel mount or a non-wiped endcap that changes the diameter of the exit hole).

The solvent traps usually have baffles in them or have a monocore unit that acts as a baffle. Those baffles or a monocore unit ARE parts of a suppressor.

That is why some solvent traps require you to also drill the baffles. By not providing drilled baffles it was a way for the manufacturer to try to end-run around the law. However, they are still considered suppressor parts.

I strongly encourage anyone with a solvent trap to rid themselves of it. Remember, if you pass away unexpectedly your family who inherits your stuff now are responsible for owning an unregistered suppressor. You knowingly made the decision to own it. They did not. Don't put that legal quagmire on them. Just get rid of it.

If you want a suppressor go do a e-file and buy one.

So far the BATFE, to the best of my knowledge, has only prosecuted those who have drilled their solvent traps. They have been collecting the traps nationwide based off of manufacturer, distributor and payment records.

I may be mistaken about the prosecutions because I dont closely follow all national prosecution cases.

If you think buying a suppressor is too expensive, I encourage you to check out the price per hour of the NFA knowledgable and experienced attorney you will need to hire to defend you against a federal felony charge for having an unregistered NFA device. I believe you will find it much less expensive to just buy the suppressor legally.

Not to mention if they get a conviction you will carry that felony for life...which also means no firearms for you. Your deer season will be limited to archery equipment only.

Just my opinions, not legal advice.

 

[MUP]

I don't own either a solvent trap or a suppressor, but what I picture, when thinking of a solvent trap, is like I've seen on the Midway commercials that looks just like a plastic water bottle. How could that be considered anything remotely close to a suppressor is what I keep wondering?

 

[BlackBelt]

I don't own either a solvent trap or a suppressor, but what I picture, when thinking of a solvent trap, is like I've seen on the Midway commercials that looks just like a plastic water bottle. How could that be considered anything remotely close to a suppressor is what I keep wondering?

Those were the original and genuine "solvent traps", and they were made to actually capture cleaning solvent.
Those were around for quite awhile. For multiple reasons I dont believe BATFE had any problems with those, mainly because if it were shot through it would be destroyed and usually fly off the end of the barrel, and did not practically lower the sound level.

They started taking notice when people started buying metal cans that threaded on and could be altered to "diminish the report of a firearm".
In todays political/legal environment I would steer clear of any type of device that captures anything coming out of a barrel other than a muzzle brake.

But thats just me.

We have witnessed from BATFE's recent arrest, prosecution and conviction of a Naval officer for having legally bought a parts kit that had been properly destroyed per BATFE guidelines...then years later BATFE changed those guidelines and went after the man for having that same previously approved kit...
You really want to stay on the right side of BATFE regulations. It is important to know their "regulations" carry the weight of law and consequences.

It has been my observation that the only people that try to circumvent BATFE regulations are those that dont understand the seriousness of doing so.