Some Ames Stats...

[Andy S.]

...but that is alot of deer.

Our doe kill this year of 143 may be the least we have killed in the last decade. When we first started shooting the does hard, back in 2004-2006, we had at least two seasons where we killed 225 or so does. It didn't take much of that to make our does hide like no other, especially in the easier to access areas. A hunter can still go deep off the beaten path and see 10-15 does a morning in November, but typically these spots are too much work for many members to pull the trigger on a doe, thus the does appear to be more visible in these areas during daylight.

 

[BSK]

BSK---
I see your point. The button buck/antlerless kill should be represented as 15-17% of the kill. Still way too high (IMO) for an experienced QDM club.

Without question Mike, 17% of the antlerless kill being young bucks is too high for an experienced QDM club.

 

[BSK]

The idea that any penalty for killing excessive button bucks may decrease the overall doe kill numbers is valid...to a point. I could understand that concept on public land or anywhere that John Q. was hunting. For a QDM oriented club, and particularly for one that has maintained it's core membership for several years, I would like to think that those hunters were at a different level.

Honestly, I've seen it just the opposite. QDM hunters are far more interested in shooting big bucks than any deer. Impose a penalty for shooting a button buck--especially any penalty that limits their opportunity to shoot a buck--and QDM hunters will flat stop shooting does. John Q. Public really couldn't care as much, as any deer makes them happy.

 

[Boone 58]

Button heads are so hard to avoid because they are just so hard to see them. I shot one this time at 45 yards thinking it was a doe with my bow and wouldnt you know..........i hate that. I never intentionally shoot a button head but we still have it happen every year. I really avoid shooting "lone" deer, because more times than not a single deer is a young loner buck. Very high % of the time. Thanks for sharing , very interesting data.

 

[fairchaser]

That's one way to increase the membership at Ames. Currently we have fines for not shooting enough does or for shooting too small a buck, fines for not signing in and fines for not signing out. Fines for improperly filling out an observation form and fines for not filling out a form. Fines for parking in the wrong place and fines for riding an Atv on the wrong road. Fines for riding an atv on the right rd for the right reason but the wrong time of day. We have fines for just about everything already so lets add fines for shooting button bucks too. Every hunter who shot a bb this year regrets it. Can't we let it slide with a verbal slap on the wrist for one year?

 

[Andy S.]

That's one way to increase the membership at Ames.

Who said we want to increase it? I like it just the way it is. Plenty of great hunters, but not overly crowded, with plenty of woods to roam in.

Currently we have fines for not shooting enough does or for shooting too small a buck, fines for not signing in and fines for not signing out. Fines for improperly filling out an observation form and fines for not filling out a form. Fines for parking in the wrong place and fines for riding an Atv on the wrong road. Fines for riding an atv on the right rd for the right reason but the wrong time of day.

These fines are spelled out in the contract that we all sign year in and year out before we choose to participate in the Ames hunting club. Knowing this, I do not see how any gripe about our fines is warranted.

Every hunter who shot a bb this year regrets it.

I believe this to some degree, but you will never make me believe the members who shot multiple buttons, and furthermore, those who have shot multiple buttons over the course of several years are a bit remorseful. I just ain't buying it with the type of seasoned hunters we have. I have no problem with the members who goofed once, like I did few years back, but repeat offenders need "something" to get their attention. Fines may not be the answer, but neither is the current method of just sweeping it under the rug. At a minimum, I think Ames needs to rehash button buck identification and place emphasis on us doing better at our annual supper this fall. My .02

 

[fairchaser]

That's one way to increase the membership at Ames.

Who said we want to increase it? I like it just the way it is. Plenty of great hunters, but not overly crowded, with plenty of woods to roam in.

Currently we have fines for not shooting enough does or for shooting too small a buck, fines for not signing in and fines for not signing out. Fines for improperly filling out an observation form and fines for not filling out a form. Fines for parking in the wrong place and fines for riding an Atv on the wrong road. Fines for riding an atv on the right rd for the right reason but the wrong time of day.

These fines are spelled out in the contract that we all sign year in and year out before we choose to participate in the Ames hunting club. Knowing this, I do not see how any gripe about our fines is warranted.

Every hunter who shot a bb this year regrets it.

I believe this to some degree, but you will never make me believe the members who shot multiple buttons, and furthermore, those who have shot multiple buttons over the course of several years are a bit remorseful. I just ain't buying it with the type of seasoned hunters we have. I have no problem with the members who goofed once, like I did few years back, but repeat offenders need "something" to get their attention. Fines may not be the answer, but neither is the current method of just sweeping it under the rug. At a minimum, I think Ames needs to rehash button buck identification and place emphasis on us doing better at our annual supper this fall. My .02

My hunting buddy shot two bb this season and beat himself up both times badly. I know cause I had to hear about it. But I agree that we need a refresher on bb identification. I am absolutely sure we will get a talking to whether we want it or not. The only reason I want more members is to assure the continuation of the program. Otherwise I had my toes stepped on more than once this season by other hunters. I signed up for all the possible fines but the last thing we need are more rules and fines. Just my humble opinion.

 

[Andy S.]

My hunting buddy shot two bb this season and beat himself up both times badly. I know cause I had to hear about it.

I believe this 100% because I know you and your group are great people as well as great assets to the Ames hunting club.

But I agree that we need a refresher on bb identification.

Yes indeed.

I am absolutely sure we will get a talking to whether we want it or not.

I believe you are correct about this.

The only reason I want more members is to assure the continuation of the program.

In this case, I'd be all for more members before I would be so selfish as to cause the club to fold.

I signed up for all the possible fines but the last thing we need are more rules and fines. Just my humble opinion.

I am certainly not for more fines, but it would not bother me if the fine was warranted. I see rules and fines at Ames similar to the speed limit in our every day life. While I do not always agree with the speed limit, and rarely do I get a speeding ticket, when I do, it is usually 100% warranted based on my oversight and lack of focus at that moment. My .02

 

[Layne]

The idea that any penalty for killing excessive button bucks may decrease the overall doe kill numbers is valid...to a point. I could understand that concept on public land or anywhere that John Q. was hunting. For a QDM oriented club, and particularly for one that has maintained it's core membership for several years, I would like to think that those hunters were at a different level.

Honestly, I've seen it just the opposite. QDM hunters are far more interested in shooting big bucks than any deer. Impose a penalty for shooting a button buck--especially any penalty that limits their opportunity to shoot a buck--and QDM hunters will flat stop shooting does. John Q. Public really couldn't care as much, as any deer makes them happy.

I agree, it's not worth paying a fine for a doe, a lot of hunters will stop shooting does. Fortunately I haven't shot a button on Ames but I've come close. I believe you have to weight the importance of the doe harvest vs saving a few buttons, I think it is reasonable to assume that if you decrease the buttons killed through a fine then you will also decrease the amount of does taken.

Now as for one hunter taking multiple buttons in a season, I do believe that needs addressed in some way. We can all make a mistake but that mistake should lead us to be more diligent the next time we pull the trigger.
Maybe for each button killed a doe is removed from that hunters total which would mean he or she would have to kill two does before they could kill their second buck... just a thought.

 

[Andy S.]

Now as for one hunter taking multiple buttons in a season, I do believe that needs addressed in some way. We can all make a mistake but that mistake should lead us to be more diligent the next time we pull the trigger.

My thoughts exactly Layne.

 

[BigAl]

Excluding button bucks, what was your number of "legal" buck kills vs "illegal" buck kills. I'm referring to Ames standards.

 

[Andy S.]

Excluding button bucks, what was your number of "legal" buck kills vs "illegal" buck kills. I'm referring to Ames standards.

Shooters - 24. 21 made it on score (and possibly age too) and 3 made it on age alone.

Non-shooters - 7. Three spikes, three 2.5 year olds and one 3.5 year old.

 

[Mike Belt]

I can think of at least 1 hunter that not only shoots an illegal buck/season but also a couple of button bucks at Ames. Should he be allowed to continue his membership at the same price as a member that doesn't do this?

 

[david k.]

Andy, I'm glad to hear things are going well with your daughter......now tell me where your best spots are 'cause you ain't going to get to hunt much for the next several years...You might get to hunt again when she starts driving and dating if you can afford it. Haha!

I know that mistakes are going to happen but we have to do something.....29 spikes and bb is just too many from a group of 70, seasoned, hunters in my opinion.

Maybe a member gets one free pass on a spike or bb but after the first one any spike or bb counts as a buck against their 2 buck limit that year and if they've already killed 2 bucks and kill a spike or a bb, it counts against their buck total the next year they are a member. A buck is a buck no matter it's age anyway, right?

Personally, I never hunt at Ames without my binoculars and I promise they've saved me a few times.

David K.

 

[Andy S.]

Correction here: I previously wrote "18,600 acres, with about 13,600 open for hunting to members" when in fact it is more like 16,600 acres open for members with 2,000 acres being safety zones.

 

[Winchester]

Fascinating stats Mike. Thanks for posting them.

I'm guessing the listed average weights are field-dressed weights?

I hope so, even then the weights are lower than I would have suspected for that area!

 

[BSK]

Fascinating stats Mike. Thanks for posting them.

I'm guessing the listed average weights are field-dressed weights?

I hope so, even then the weights are lower than I would have suspected for that area!

Agreed. Even our field-dressed weights would easily top those listed.

 

[Mike Belt]

Yep, field dressed weights. Our deer aren't very big. Sometimes it makes those racks look better than they actually are.

 

[TheLBLman]

Yep, field dressed weights. Our deer aren't very big. Sometimes it makes those racks look better than they actually are.

Would also speculate some of the larger body weight bucks may get a pass because their larger bodies make their racks look smaller.

About 3 years ago, I thought I was taking a 4 1/2-yr-old buck with a 130-plus rack. Buck turned out to field-dress barely over 100 lbs, and the rack scored @ 118. Body size can play a bigger role than many hunters might believe in how the rack size "appears" in the field.

I'd speculate that the specific antler criteria being used may be skewing the harvest at Ames towards the smaller body sized bucks.

 

[BSK]

[I'd speculate that the specific antler criteria being used may be skewing the harvest at Ames towards the smaller body sized bucks.

That's an interesting and rational theory.

 

[Mike Belt]

I hadn't thought about that Wes and you might be right. I know I've passed a couple of dandy bucks weight size-wise that had good racks but I may have been pre-disposed to seeing smaller body sizes at Ames.