Setting Harvest Goals

[BHC]

On a given property say you have 220 deer, with 100 being bucks. With in those bucks 10 are 4+ yrs old, 15 are 3 yr olds. How many of each of those age classes can you afford to take from the heard, and assume they'll be replaced the following year? How many would be beyond replaceable by the younger age class?

 

[deerhunter10]

personally if it is that set in stone I would take a whole lot of does and kill 2 or 3 4.5 year olds. but its not that set in stone. you never know how many young bucks will make it if you don't give them that chance. if you kill that 3.5 year old then you know for sure he wont make it to 4.5 or 5.5 gotta at least give them that chance. if you want to be that kind of hunter. for me i do what ever i can to get the deer to 4.5 and 5.5 year olds. but you got to realize when they hit 3.5 they are a different deer and when they hit 4.5 and older they are a completely different deer and you have to dot you i's and cross your t's every single hunt. no one lucks up every year and kill s mature deer 4.5 and older by getting lucky every year. it takes 365 days a year and getting after it. nothing easy for the most part about killing constantly mature deer especially in Tennessee.

 

[Big JWC 50]

I would also say if there is any hunter in TN that kills a 4.5+ buck every year, that is their target animal. Which means most of their time, effort, scouting, etc. goes into killing that buck. I would say most hunters that kill 2+ mature bucks in TN every year 1 of those bucks would probably be luck

 

[AlabamaSwamper]

Speaking personally of place I hunt. Even bucks that are 4.5 that are around in Jan and Feb, its amazing how many aren't around as 5.5. Assume they die in late winter/early spring. Even those not harvested, a good percentage seem to vanish. If we had ten 4.5 and killed all of them then I'd say that was a good year.

Every property is different though. I've always thought that once a deer hit 3.5 that the vast majority are not going to be killed by hunters (and this is true in the south in my experiences) so even if your goals/rules/ect allow them to be killed, you are not going to hurt that population of bucks and of course the older the less you are going to hurt them. I firmly believe more 3.5+ die from natural causes than bullets.

In this part of the country, I'd set my goals, be it 3.5/4.5./ect and go with it. I worry every year about replacing what is killed and every year it works itself out.

 

[benellivol]

I want a 3.5 year or older buck every year. I've gotten one in the last 3 seasons.

I take 2 to 4 does a year from the properties I hunt. What I've noticed, 5 years into seriously trying to manage one property, is that deer move in quickly and stay if you provide food and cover.

I went from rarely seeing deer to now, expecting to see between 3 to 5 does a hunt. Mature bucks are still a toss up, I've been on one buck for two years and haven't been offered a shot at him (he tends to hang out around 100 yards from during bow season and disappear during gun, only to show his face on cameras immediately after the season closes), but I've seen several younger bucks since I started putting more effort in.

 

[deerhunter10]

im not saying that there isn't any luck at all in it. but I also believe you make your own luck.. but a hunter in Tennessee that kills a mature deer every single year imo that isn't luck that dude or girl knows what he/ she is doing and is getting after it. I will say when you decide to be a "trophy" hunter for the most part your overall hunting experience goes up. in the past 5 seasons including my 2012 season which was my worst season to date. I have one been skunked one time out of all of those many many hunts and that was in 2012. your farm becomes almost a haven for them if you hunt some kind of smart. and I love that. and it is awesome to bring kids to hunt and teach them. because I almost know they are going to see deer and generally have an opportunity to kill one. you start to hunt the wind watch how you go to and from your tree stand. in my mind it just doesn't get much better then the cat and mouse game with big mature bucks. it gets me in a tree stand 60 plus times a year and it just gets me excited to go. but its not for every body and I realize that. just to put it in perspective sense the season has closed we have already hung 7 stands and we still have at least 8 to hang. its work but you get out of it what you put in it. like I said control what you can control and you can control what you pass and shoot. if you decide to go after those 4.5 and older deer you have to make the tough decision to pass those very very tempting 3.5 year olds. you never know what will make it til you give it that chance.

 

[BSK]

Unfortunately, the answer is going to be site specific, and will be determined by how much buck movement you see during the rut. On some properties, bucks move around a lot during the rut, and the influence of the rut can double the number of "harvestable" bucks (twice as many bucks use the property during the rut as would normally use the property). On other properties, this is not the case, and local bucks do little moving around during the rut. For whatever reason, some of the counties along the southern border of TN, especially Wayne County, appear to do little moving around annually, seasonally, or during the rut. This means you will have to be very careful about the number of middle-aged bucks ( 2 1/2 to 3 1/2) killed each year to maintain an adequate number of mature bucks (4 1/2+) from year to year. On other properties, it may matter little how many middle-aged bucks are killed, as "new" middle-aged bucks will move in once they reach maturity. For example, so few of the mature bucks that use my place can be linked back to a "resident" middle-aged buck that I firmly believe would could slaughter our middle-aged bucks each year and still maintain an adequate number of mature bucks year after year.

But again, it all comes down to the property, and keeping detailed records. It is one of those things you will have to experiment with while monitoring results.

 

[BHC]

I guess I was saying if your goals are to only harvest deer 3.5 and older, what is the maximum number of harvestable bucks to sustain that population/ age structure?

 

[BSK]

I guess I was saying if your goals are to only harvest deer 3.5 and older, what is the maximum number of harvestable bucks to sustain that population/ age structure?

And the answer is what I stated above: it depends on the property. Some properties see so much influx of "new" bucks annually and seasonally, that it doesn't matter how many younger bucks you kill. On the other hand, some properties see so LITTLE influx, that it matters a great deal how many younger bucks you kill. It is just one of those things you will have to track over time. How many bucks did you kill last year of a given age and how many bucks of the next year older did you photographed this year? It could make very little difference or it could make a great deal of difference, depending on the individual property.

I wish there was an accurate "standardized" answer, but there isn't. The answer is going to be very property specific.

 

[BHC]

Interesting. I'm sure you noticed, but the property we hunt is in Wayne co.. As you stated we seem to have a bunch of homebodies. We get the same bucks on camera pre, in, and post season. A few show up a few leave, but this is generally on the edges of the property..
Is there a natural survival rate of bucks, say at age 2,3,4? This is a pine plantation type property with tons of sanctuary, we plant 37 food plots across property, hard bottoms throughout property, with creeks running throughout..

Assuming only deer you photographed used your property. You have 24 harvestable 3.5+ bucks, you take half of them. How many of the 12 still living could reasonably be expected to survive to the next yr?

 

[AlabamaSwamper]

BHC,

Being not a terrible long ways from you, here's my take on it. If I had twelve 3.5y/o bucks show up on camera after season, I'd be pretty darn happy if nine of them were there come September. Between late winter mortality and poaching (that does go on after season more than I care to discuss due to my blood pressure rising), you will probably lose a few of them.

I had 7 cameras out during season. I got two bucks not summer bucks. Got one picture of one and another hung around for a week or so.

With your harvest guidelines, I'm guessing you have a large number of 2.5 every year carried over. That's kinda my strategy. Hope to carry over as many 2.5's as possible. Get them to 3.5. It's past that 3.5 stage that's tough. But in Wayne CO, it's hard to pass on good 3.5's. I fully respect a man who can honestly shoot nothing but 5.5's around here. Although I don't know anyone. I know a lot of talkers but they seem to slip up a lot.

 

[Boll Weevil]

With the help of cameras, I've been able to compile an inventory of bucks and track them year over year. Most are homebodies, maintain the same summer range, and predictably expand that range when the rut picks up. We only shoot 4.5+ year old deer and have never killed more than 2 off a little over 600ac in any year.

I just quickly flipped through my current inventory album; I'm tracking 9 bucks that are either 2.5 or 3.5 year olds from last year. Assuming 1/3rd of those are 3.5, graduated to the next age class, and didn't leave we should have 3 known bucks that are 4.5 and possibly on the hitlist.

Some seasons, new bucks appear that we know nothing about while other years we never see any of our target bucks. Sometimes an exceptional 4.5 gets a pass to see if he can put on any more bone other times we take the opportunity granted as it's the single time we've seen them on the hoof in legal shooting hours.

Based on what data / observations we maintain, removing 2-3 mature bucks a year is perfectly sustainable on our place (and quite possibly a little conservative).

 

[BSK]

Interesting. I'm sure you noticed, but the property we hunt is in Wayne co..

And that's a critical factor. For whatever reason, I see the LEAST mobility of bucks in the counties along the southern border of TN. I have no idea why. But having primarily "homebody" bucks is the norm in the southernmost counties, especially near the TN River.

 

[BSK]

Is there a natural survival rate of bucks, say at age 2,3,4?

For most managed areas in Unit L, the numbers I keep seeing over and over again (+/- 5%) are a buck population (pre-hunt) that is 50% yearlings, 25% 2 1/2, 15% 3 1/2, and 10% 4 1/2+. That means that on average, from one year to the next, there is a 50% loss of yearlings (due to all causes), a 40% loss of 2 1/2 year-olds, and a 33% loss of 3 1/2 year-olds.