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megalomaniac said:
I guess coyotes are infinitesimaly easier to call in at night vs day.... but we have had great success calling them in and killing them in daylight hours.

While adult predators and nest predators are the biggest obstacles to turkeys repopulating, the biggest human obstacle is that most turkey hunters don't do their part. They just kill their birds and hope there are more next year to kill. Take, take, take. And it's not just kill a few coyotes and coons here and there.... if you want to actually make a difference, it has to be an 'all out war' declared on coyotes and coons. When one shows up on camera, eliminate it immediately.

I guess what I'm saying is legalizing nighttime hunting of coyotes will help a tad...not because it's ineffective...but because most turkey hunters don't spend any time removing predators, so the net end result won't make a hill of beans for turkeys.

Now making everyone who wants to turkey hunt turn in 5 coyotes and 10 coons before they can get a turkey tag... holy cow, THAT would .ake a difference. (I'm not advocating that... there would be no turkey hunters that year.... BUT the turkeys would thrive!)
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Here in Overton County we have year around road hunting at night. All it is is thugs, drunks and druggies that ride around shooting at homes, shooting livestock and horses and terrorizing homeowners in the areas where they want to hunt. The state can't slow them down. They don't need to do anything for night hunting except shut it down until they can get the thugs under control.
 
Planking said:
Here in Overton County we have year around road hunting at night. All it is is thugs, drunks and druggies that ride around shooting at homes, shooting livestock and horses and terrorizing homeowners in the areas where they want to hunt. The state can't slow them down. They don't need to do anything for night hunting except shut it down until they can get the thugs under control.
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That is about the umpteenth time you have posted your complaint on here. Rather than just complaining, what do you suggest being done to help your situation? If you were King for the day, how would you handle it?
 
scn said:
That is about the umpteenth time you have posted your complaint on here. Rather than just complaining, what do you suggest being done to help your situation? If you were King for the day, how would you handle it?
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Close the loophole that is letting poachers road hunt at night. Just like they do spotlighting. You will let them road hunt with a thermal and that is why all these problems are happening. If you dont like hearing the complaints then tell whoever is responsible for road hunting regulations at night because i've already told them. Im done telling them.

The next little girl that's crying about her horse or the next homeowner that gets shot at it is on whoever is responsible for letting them thermal road hunt.
 
Specifically how do you close that loophole in a state with unpermitted firearm carry? Or how do you close that loophole for carry permit holders using that privilege as a way to poach?
 
Planking said:
Close the loophole that is letting poachers road hunt at night. Just like they do spotlighting. You will let them road hunt with a thermal and that is why all these problems are happening. If you dont like hearing the complaints then tell whoever is responsible for road hunting regulations at night because i've already told them. Im done telling them.

The next little girl that's crying about her horse or the next homeowner that gets shot at it is on whoever is responsible for letting them thermal road hunt.
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What loophole are you referring to?
 
MickThompson said:
Specifically how do you close that loophole in a state with unpermitted firearm carry? Or how do you close that loophole for carry permit holders using that privilege as a way to poach?
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I don't know. Im just a person who buys a hunting license and doesn't like scumbags. I don't introduce legislation or having any legal standing to fight poachers.

The law doesn't mention hunting with thermals or anything with heat detection. It mentions hunting with light only.

Specifically how are you able to bust poachers road hunting at night with a spotlight?
 
scn said:
What loophole are you referring to?
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The law doesn't mention anything about thermals or heat detection it only mentions hunting with light. That's why a DA or a judge won't prosecute. I don't blame them. That's the loophole.

I can road hunt all night long tonight and noboby can do anything as long im using a thermal. That's the loophole that is causing the problem as i was told by law enforcement.
 
Planking said:
The law doesn't mention anything about thermals or heat detection it only mentions hunting with light. That's why a DA or a judge won't prosecute. I don't blame them. That's the loophole.

I can road hunt all night long tonight and noboby can do anything as long im using a thermal. That's the loophole that is causing the problem as i was told by law enforcement.
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They could make it a violation, but, it would be very difficult/impossible to enforce. With a light shining out of a window, there is very obvious probable cause to make a vehicle stop. A vehicle slowly driving down a road using an undetectable thermal imager would be a lawsuit waiting to happen. It would be next to impossible to make the case on someone using such a device unless they were stupid enough to have it held out the window where it was visible.

I would doubt that you will see much momentum to make that change.
 
Planking said:
The law doesn't mention anything about thermals or heat detection it only mentions hunting with light. That's why a DA or a judge won't prosecute. I don't blame them. That's the loophole.

I can road hunt all night long tonight and noboby can do anything as long im using a thermal. That's the loophole that is causing the problem as i was told by law enforcement.
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Road hunting is a prosecutable offense but they 1) must shoot, and 2) be caught in the act, same as spot lighting. While thermal or nv on a long gun isn't terribly practical for self defense, they can't prosecute based on practicality.

TWRA or the commission don't make laws, only execute the laws on the books. That's up to your legislators. I would absolutely encourage you to take something to them.
 
Planking said:
The law doesn't mention anything about thermals or heat detection it only mentions hunting with light. That's why a DA or a judge won't prosecute. I don't blame them. That's the loophole.

I can road hunt all night long tonight and noboby can do anything as long im using a thermal. That's the loophole that is causing the problem as i was told by law enforcement.
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Shooting from the road is still inforcable no matter what sight is on the gun
 
timberjack86 said:
Twra, Legalize year round night time predator hunting! The only ones that are shooting deer at night are doing it already!
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National Lampoons Christmas Vacation GIF by HBO Max
 
Planking said:
Here in Overton County we have year around road hunting at night. All it is is thugs, drunks and druggies that ride around shooting at homes, shooting livestock and horses and terrorizing homeowners in the areas where they want to hunt. The state can't slow them down. They don't need to do anything for night hunting except shut it down until they can get the thugs under control.
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A few predator hunters hanging around the pastures at night with hi-power rifles may help.
 
knightrider said:
Shooting from the road is still inforcable no matter what sight is on the gun
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Spotlighting is as well whether they shoot or not the game laws should read the same for thermals in the road.

Good luck catching them shooting when they are in gangs and communicate when they spot the game wardens with their thermals.

Did the catch the guy that shot at my house or my neighbors or shot the little girls horse or shot the man's horse up the street or any of these other thermal road hunters? No the didn't and they won't.
 
Planking said:
Spotlighting is as well whether they shoot or not the game laws should read the same for thermals in the road.

Good luck catching them shooting when they are in gangs and communicate when they spot the game wardens with their thermals.

Did the catch the guy that shot at my house or my neighbors or shot the little girls horse or shot the man's horse up the street or any of these other thermal road hunters? No the didn't and they won't.
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Spotlights and night vision illuminate. Thermals detect the ambient heat of an object.

Detecting the use of a thermal would be nearly impossible as well.

I truly sympathize for your situation though and hope some sort of relief can be found. Unfortunately some folks are just dirt bags.
 
MickThompson said:
Detecting the use of a thermal would be nearly impossible as well.
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I truly thank you for your professional responses and knowledge. I do however disagree with this statement and in my opinion Ray Charles could catch them. I see them all the time but it doesn't matter if they can't prosecute to start with.
 
Bell3wv said:
A few predator hunters hanging around the pastures at night with hi-power rifles may help.
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I found this solution to not work for a couple of reasons. It's hard to tell if its someone that's supposed to be there shooting or if its someone in the road. The other reason is the buddy system.

We hated to do it but we have cut out all hunting because of the thermal road hunters and that includes some long time turkey hunters. So far we have seen improvements.

Im just pointing this stuff out so others don't have to suffer literal terrorism like we have.
 
Setterman said:
Outlaw decoys
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I am a fan of this but it will be hard to get that passed. At the very least, I want to see all male decoys banned.

When we are in a situation all over the Southeast where we are killing more turkeys than nature can reproduce for us, we only have two choices to limit the harvest as to reverse that trend.
  • Shorten seasons, reduce limits, implement a draw system, etc.
  • Restrict techniques like decoy usage.
The latter continues to give us all the ~6 week season we like, hopefully doesn't result in any more bag limit reductions, but makes it harder to kill turkeys without the use of decoys. That will save as many turkeys, probably more, than the restriction on hunter opportunity.
 
Since the numbers have started down what's changed? It's not predators, there were always coons and coyotes were here from the 1970's on. If it was predation they could have never been reestablished.
So what's different since say 2008?

Super shot like TSS that kills birds that would have walked in the past.
Widespread use of decoys.
Social media hero pics.
Reaping.
And too many 20 something hunters that grew up with a large turkey population.
And hunter attitudes towards turkeys. Once they were treasured and respected, that changed to kill at all costs no matter the long term consequences.
 
Iglow said:
Since the numbers have started down what's changed? It's not predators, there were always coons and coyotes were here from the 1970's on. If it was predation they could have never been reestablished.
So what's different since say 2008?

Super shot like TSS that kills birds that would have walked in the past.
Widespread use of decoys.
Social media hero pics.
Reaping.
And too many 20 something hunters that grew up with a large turkey population.
And hunter attitudes towards turkeys. Once they were treasured and respected, that changed to kill at all costs no matter the long term consequences.
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There was predators but not near the numbers of nest raiders, coyotes, hawks,eagles,crows and bobcats that we have now! All things that are eating turkeys and eggs have exploded to unprecedented numbers in the last ten years! We have triple or more numbers of them now than we had twenty years ago! Decoys ,reaping, and longrange shooting push have been detrimental to field pimps that once were untouchable by "hunters" who didnt have the skill, today with all the crutches available any googan can kill to many birds to quick for their social media grips and grins!
 
Like Setterman has always said trash the plastic turkeys and separate the men from the boys and they will be a whole lot more fishing golfing or whatever people do in the spring, then there would be wanting to play a chess match with henned up gobbler's, and in my opinion when ever they released that pretty boy strutting decoy, b-mobile, avian x, dsd fanning BS…was the turning point it's a death sentence to a boss gobbler with a harem of hens he has fought every dude in the tribe since early spring for that position so one more whooping don't phase him a bit till he gets a face full of pellet's by some dingus sitting behind a plastic turkey lol.
 
Newt said:
Like Setterman has always said trash the plastic turkeys and separate the men from the boys and they will be a whole lot more fishing golfing or whatever people do in the spring, then there would be wanting to play a chess match with henned up gobbler's, and in my opinion when ever they released that pretty boy strutting decoy, b-mobile, avian x, dsd fanning BS…was the turning point it's a death sentence to a boss gobbler with a harem of hens he has fought every dude in the tribe since early spring for that position so one more whooping don't phase him a bit till he gets a face full of pellet's by some dingus sitting behind a plastic turkey lol.
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less plastic turkeys is also better for the environment lol
 
Think back to before tss of how many turkeys you had at 55 to 60 yards that never came any closer and you didn't shoot. A friend that uses TSS told me he killed a gobbler stone dead with 1 shot from a 20 gauge at 70 paces, and he's a long legged dude.
That 25 yards between 35 and 60 might as well be a mile with lead, but with TSS it's a dead bird and a reduction in population.
The shrinking turkey population is too widespread and too varied to be natural causes, it's happened because we've invented ways to kill them farther and easier and we've done it.
The answer IMO is ban TSS, use of decoys except for bowhunting and have a 30 day/2 gobbler limit beginning the first Saturday in April with tags for checking in the birds and no out of state hunters for the first 15 days.
 
Iglow said:
Think back to before tss of how many turkeys you had at 55 to 60 yards that never came any closer and you didn't shoot. A friend that uses TSS told me he killed a gobbler stone dead with 1 shot from a 20 gauge at 70 paces, and he's a long legged dude.
That 25 yards between 35 and 60 might as well be a mile with lead, but with TSS it's a dead bird and a reduction in population.
The shrinking turkey population is too widespread and too varied to be natural causes, it's happened because we've invented ways to kill them farther and easier and we've done it.
The answer IMO is ban TSS, use of decoys except for bowhunting and have a 30 day/2 gobbler limit beginning the first Saturday in April with tags for checking in the birds and no out of state hunters for the first 15 days.
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Plus how many posts do you see every season about "missing" a bird at 50+ yards? How can you miss a turkey with a shotgun at 50+ yards unless you were aiming at the sky? They didn't miss. That bird got plenty peppered, and possibly will die of infection, it just wasn't killed instantly.

These long range TSS shots are making it too easy. And I'm right there with you on the frustration of a gobbler hanging up at 50-75 yds. That's the challenge though. Either work him within 35 yds or he wins that day. IT'S OK IF THE TURKEY WINS!! We don't need to shoot him at 75 yds, or worse, sit behind a male decoy so he comes rushing in.

The male decoys, especially, need to go. Male decoys basically short circuit a dominant gobbler's survival instinct and he goes running in for a fight. That bird is otherwise known as the "unkillable" gobbler that doesn't come to hens. Hens come to him and he knows it.

Only after he's knocked up his entire harem of hens will be be vulnerable to a call. And that's the gobbler that we want breeding all his hens, not dying opening weekend because some flat bill dork needs a guaranteed kill for his YouTube content.
 
Iglow said:
Think back to before tss of how many turkeys you had at 55 to 60 yards that never came any closer and you didn't shoot. A friend that uses TSS told me he killed a gobbler stone dead with 1 shot from a 20 gauge at 70 paces, and he's a long legged dude.
That 25 yards between 35 and 60 might as well be a mile with lead, but with TSS it's a dead bird and a reduction in population.
The shrinking turkey population is too widespread and too varied to be natural causes, it's happened because we've invented ways to kill them farther and easier and we've done it.
The answer IMO is ban TSS, use of decoys except for bowhunting and have a 30 day/2 gobbler limit beginning the first Saturday in April with tags for checking in the birds and no out of state hunters for the first 15 days.
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I can get down with that but if you ban tss you might as well take longbeard with it. That's what they were promoted to do. Tss never has or at least I haven't seen it. You get the right combo with LB out of a 12ga you can still kill out at 70. Decoy only for bow? What about crossbows? I shoot tss for a 20ga but they live to see another day before I snipe em.
 

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