Rut question

[ROVERBOY]

The property that I hunt I've had a trail cam out since Sept., and only got 4 bucks on it. Very strange. No older class bucks at all. 2 were 1.5's and the other 2 look 2.5. I've seen chasing one time. Not seen much of bucks cruising either. It's usually not like this.

 

[philsanchez76]

Well I sure aint killed a nice one this year but my friend just got herself a beautiful 200 pound 10 point with her Mazda last night, so they are still moving quite a bit.

 

[Ski]

I have yet to put my finger on what exactly we see happening this year.

I believe BSK has had it pegged from the start. It's been pushed back this year. I'm seeing activity levels right now that I usually see late October and first week of November, except with lockdowns. I'm seeing pre-rut action while at same time seeing lockdowns. Really, really weird. I'm just now seeing scrapes opening up all over the property, but not where they usually occur.

My Ohio property turns out was a good indicator for here. I was just beginning to see the pre-rut shift with some traditional scrapes opening up when I shot my buck on the 12th of November. Generally speaking the rut up there precedes the rut here by 10-14 days ish. It was late there and it's late here, with the time discrepancy remaining about the same.

 

[philsanchez76]

I believe BSK has had it pegged from the start. It's been pushed back this year. I'm seeing activity levels right now that I usually see late October and first week of November, except with lockdowns. I'm seeing pre-rut action while at same time seeing lockdowns. Really, really weird. I'm just now seeing scrapes opening up all over the property, but not where they usually occur.

My Ohio property turns out was a good indicator for here. I was just beginning to see the pre-rut shift with some traditional scrapes opening up when I shot my buck on the 12th of November. Generally speaking the rut up there precedes the rut here by 10-14 days ish. It was late there and it's late here, with the time discrepancy remaining about the same.

interesting you say that about the scrapes. I went out to my local public last night to see how much damage the thanksgiving gun crowd did last week and found scrapes everywhere that were not there just 3-4 days ago.

 

[Ski]

interesting you say that about the scrapes. I went out to my local public last night to see how much damage the thanksgiving gun crowd did last week and found scrapes everywhere that were not there just 3-4 days ago.

That's exactly what I've been seeing last few days. It's like there was a dam holding the rut back, and it piled up & piled up until the dam broke and let the flood of the entire rut happen all at once.

 

[MintJulep]

I have yet to put my finger on what exactly we see happening this year. The only outlier is the severe drought and that causing a complete acorn failure. Almost non-existent rut activity and that has still yet to be seen on our property. Didn't find the first scrape until 11/16 and first rub on 11/10. Tons of does and fawns and yearling bucks. The older bucks just simply didn't show up. Either something going on with the acorn failure causing no range shift, or they are dead. Never seen anything like this before. After having a great crop of older bucks last year, I would have bet my paycheck this year would have been on fire. It is exactly the opposite of that. It actually has the components of a newly-purchased property that hasn't had any management on it whatsoever.

I'm not going to put much emphasis on this year and cast doom and gloom on next year. Just striking it up as a big question mark year. We should be due for a bumper crop of acorns next year.

It's definitely not over yet and hoping for just a very delayed timing. We'll see what happens

Exactly what I've observed in Williamson County. Very little movement from older bucks, never seen anything like it. Very strange.

 

[DeerCamp]

Far too many hunters make incorrect assumptions about the rut for 2 reasons... low sample size... just because you personally don't observe an estrus chase or tending does not mean the rut is not going on...for example, 'I hunted all weekend and didn't see a single doe in heat, and I saw 15 of them!'

Or 2... they don't understand the dynamics of the actual breeding cycle... that it starts out with just a sporadic doe or two here and there in estrus, which then triggers the intense seeking phase, leading to peak breeding/ lockdown, then followed by another (although less) intense seeking phase. This is spread out over 2 or 3 weeks... an example would be 'the rut is on! I saw 2 different bucks chase 2 different does like crazy' (but fail to recognize they were just yearling bucks chasing inreceptive does which has little bearing on actual breeding timing).

On my farms, actual seeking and peak breeding were right on time. Signs like orphaned fawns due to mothers being tended by bucks were right on time. Actual tending and breeding by mature bucks was right on time. Scrapes being abandoned/ used less frequently were right on time. But I am more (or less, depending on how you view it) fortunate than most in that I am hunting an intentionally unpressured deer herd prior to the rut with multiple hunters collecting observation data every single day for a 2 week period, in addition to 15 trail cameras collecting data as well.

Spot on!
The one key for us is... that end of peak breeding seeking phase is 100% our best chance to kill a truly mature buck for one reason - NEW BUCKS!

For us, it happens Nov 30 - Dec 6 (ish).

We will see fewer deer in general, but bucks we have never seen before, and usually a few of those are big boys. The post-peak seeking phase seems to be more desperate.

My wife's big 6 pointer (130") lived all year long over 3 miles away. He was their target buck and they had him on camera in the summer and fall through the rut. Then Just showed up here one day chasing a doe.

 

[DeerCamp]

That's exactly what I've been seeing last few days. It's like there was a dam holding the rut back, and it piled up & piled up until the dam broke and let the flood of the entire rut happen all at once.

Could that peak breeding is over, and the bucks are returning to their scrape making phase.

 

[BSK]

Could that peak breeding is over, and the bucks are returning to their scrape making phase.

We JUST went through our peak breeding phase (many fawns running around by themselves looking lost) around Thanksgiving. That usually takes place about Nov. 13-16. Our post-peak seeking phase hasn't started yet.

 

[BSK]

Spot on!
The one key for us is... that end of peak breeding seeking phase is 100% our best chance to kill a truly mature buck for one reason - NEW BUCKS!

For us, it happens Nov 30 - Dec 6 (ish).

We will see fewer deer in general, but bucks we have never seen before, and usually a few of those are big boys. The post-peak seeking phase seems to be more desperate.

We usually do quite well during that post-peak seeking/scraping phase. I agree it is more "desperate."

 

[Ski]

Could that peak breeding is over, and the bucks are returning to their scrape making phase.

Could be except we never had a scrape phase to kick off the rut like normal, and I've never seen this kind of action post lockdown. What I'm seeing is what one expect when rut is just cracking open.

 

[tellico4x4]

Care to elaborate on how the drought is affecting things? I'm sure you've addressed it on here already but I missed it.

As for the rut occuring at drastically different times within fairly close areas, I hunt in Southern Wayne Co. and have experienced the same thing for years. I used to let this board convince me of the need to hit the woods heavy due to an influx of activity in Hardin or Lawrence. Years of experience has taught me that it just doesn't get going on my lease until early Dec. Everybody talks about being in the woods in November and it just isn't so for me. However, the entire month of December is just amazing. Saw the biggest buck of my life 4 years ago with a pack of does on Christmas eve.

I'm in same location & have kept records for 20 years. Dec1-13 is peak cruising & chasing for us.That period has accounted for 30 bucks killed. Dec 17-22 accounts for another 30 killed & Dec 27-Jan 5 accounts for 47 killed

 

[JCDEERMAN]

I believe BSK has had it pegged from the start. It's been pushed back this year. I'm seeing activity levels right now that I usually see late October and first week of November, except with lockdowns. I'm seeing pre-rut action while at same time seeing lockdowns. Really, really weird. I'm just now seeing scrapes opening up all over the property, but not where they usually occur.

@BSK is usually spot on! I definitely made a note when he mentioned 2007 being a very similar year. That note was for me to be in the woods about 2 weeks later than normal. I plan to be out there this weekend. Unfortunately, I was out of town during Thanksgiving.

For me, I'm ok with seeing the lack of sign, and am actually ok with not seeing any rut activity. What concerns me is a very dismal older age class of bucks pictured or seen while hunting. I'd understand on a smaller property, but with a large tract and 21 cameras out, it baffles me.

What I'm hoping is just what you said Ski. I'm hoping to get there this weekend and see pics of older deer we haven't seen all year. These cameras haven't been checked since opening of rifle. Also hoping to see where the dam broke, as you said, and sign is coloring the landscape. We'll see.

 

[BSK]

The below graph is what I'm seeing when it comes to older bucks working scrapes this year. Notice that in a normal poor acorn year, there is a huge peak of scraping in early November, then a lull during peak breeding, and then a second surge right after peak breeding. This year, we didn't see our first big surge of scraping until the normal time for the post-peak surge. I'm expecting to see that post-peak surge this year in early December.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

The below graph is what I'm seeing when it comes to older bucks working scrapes this year. Notice that in a normal poor acorn year, there is a huge peak of scraping in early November, then a lull during peak breeding, and then a second surge right after peak breeding. This year, we didn't see our first big surge of scraping until the normal time for the post-peak surge. I'm expecting to see that post-peak surge this year in early December.

Very cool and very telling. We as hunters should all expect poor, median and great acorn crops from time to time…and hunt accordingly. An anomaly is a complete acorn crop failure. It would be interesting to see a graph of 2007 and 2022 comparisons. If that data closely correlates, and I suspect it does, the next time a complete acorn failure occurs, I won't be wasting vacation days in early-mid November. We will be well-prepared

Only difference in those two years - one was an ehd year, so that may skew a little

 

[TNTreeman]

I've hunted everyday but 3 in the last three weeks. I'm seeing new rubs and scrapes daily. The mature bucks I'm seeing are alone and aren't showing that much interest in the ladies. The only real chasing I've seen was young bucks harassing does. Things here are a little off travel wise because of food plot failure but buck activity with the ladies is about the same maybe a little late. These rubs are about 4 days old and are about 6" caliper trees.

 

[megalomaniac]

The below graph is what I'm seeing when it comes to older bucks working scrapes this year. Notice that in a normal poor acorn year, there is a huge peak of scraping in early November, then a lull during peak breeding, and then a second surge right after peak breeding. This year, we didn't see our first big surge of scraping until the normal time for the post-peak surge. I'm expecting to see that post-peak surge this year in early December.

Is your normal peak breeding Nov 14th??? Mine peaks Nov 21-22nd... just frustrating as all get out, as so many does are in heat finding a mature buck is a needle in a haystack during lockdown. But my place is dead as a doornail by Dec 1st. Probably a combination of hunting pressure and nearly all does past 1st estrus. In fact, I learned to just quit hunting from Dec 1 until Dec 17th or so. But that lack of pressure for 2.5 weeks makes for an intense and fun 2nd rut just before Christmas.

 

[DeerCamp]

I was fully expecting our rut to be a week late this year due to less than optimal food quality from Sept till Nov due to lack of rain and no acorn crop. But I guess the regularly spaced out rains all summer on the ag fields gave the deer enough of a jump before the big drought hit to keep the does in good enough condition to ovulate on time.

The one HUGE difference this year from the past decade was the insane numbers of fawns that survived the summer. I ended up with a 50% fawn recruitment rate this year ( normally 10 to 20%). Something wiped out my coyotes (maybe distemper) and the fawns really benefitted. Never heard a single howl in the evenings (normal to hear 3 or 4 packs), only shot 4 while hunting (normally shoot 10 to 12). I was wondering if the drastic change in fawn recruitment may affect rut timing, but it didnt.

My new neighbor is a professional trapper. We will be running a line with 30-40 traps this february.

Excited about the potential benefit.

 

[BSK]

Is your normal peak breeding Nov 14th??? Mine peaks Nov 21-22nd... just frustrating as all get out, as so many does are in heat finding a mature buck is a needle in a haystack during lockdown. But my place is dead as a doornail by Dec 1st. Probably a combination of hunting pressure and nearly all does past 1st estrus. In fact, I learned to just quit hunting from Dec 1 until Dec 17th or so. But that lack of pressure for 2.5 weeks makes for an intense and fun 2nd rut just before Christmas.

Correct, about Nov. 14th for peak. My place dies after December 7 as well. Right about Dec 5-7 we'll see one more big flurry of scraping and then the big boys vanish.

 

[killingtime 41]

We JUST went through our peak breeding phase (many fawns running around by themselves looking lost) around Thanksgiving. That usually takes place about Nov. 13-16. Our post-peak seeking phase hasn't started yet.

In my observations the older bigger boys seem to move more in the second go around vs peak rut around thanksgiving. Is there any reason you can think of that this would be case. Or is that typical in your area also.

 

[BSK]

In my observations the older bigger boys seem to move more in the second go around vs peak rut around thanksgiving. Is there any reason you can think of that this would be case. Or is that typical in your area also.

As others have mentioned, I think the more experienced bucks realize the rut is coming to an end, and they act more "frantic" about finding those last receptive does. They tend to make more mistakes then.

 

[TNTreeman]

I saw 8 bucks today and 6 does . All the bucks were by themselves and zero interest in the does. It poured the whole time and thunder and lightning.These two fellows even seemed playful.

 

[DeerMan66]

The below graph is what I'm seeing when it comes to older bucks working scrapes this year. Notice that in a normal poor acorn year, there is a huge peak of scraping in early November, then a lull during peak breeding, and then a second surge right after peak breeding. This year, we didn't see our first big surge of scraping until the normal time for the post-peak surge. I'm expecting to see that post-peak surge this year in early December.

BSK, your graph is dead on the scrape activity that happened on our property in Hickman County this year. There was no scrape activity until 11/12. Then over the next few days it was like magic with all the bucks making scrapes.

 

[ROVERBOY]

I didn't see any scrape activity here until early November. Very few rubs found too. Usually when MZ starts, they'll be lots of scrapes and rubs, with some chasing. Not this year at all. I'm at a loss. My usual hunting spots are normally red hot right now. I'm gonna check out some new spots when I get more time off from work. Good luck to everybody.

 

[Ski]

I didn't see any scrape activity here until early November. Very few rubs found too. Usually when MZ starts, they'll be lots of scrapes and rubs, with some chasing. Not this year at all. I'm at a loss. My usual hunting spots are normally red hot right now. I'm gonna check out some new spots when I get more time off from work. Good luck to everybody.

You're not alone.

 

[RockMcL]

Here in Giles County it is getting pretty hot. No binoculars or scope today but one mature buck on doe on West side of private drive and another mature buck on doe way up East ridge. The one on West side would be an instant hammer drop, no further evaluation needed. (My sons will miss work tomorrow...)
Does coming out in yard to get away from the young bucks chasing every thing to include me. Scouting and dragging some scent.

 

[Ski]

Here in Giles County it is getting pretty hot. No binoculars or scope today but one mature buck on doe on West side of private drive and another mature buck on doe way up East ridge. The one on West side would be an instant hammer drop, no further evaluation needed. (My sons will miss work tomorrow...)
Does coming out in yard to get away from the young bucks chasing every thing to include me. Scouting and dragging some scent.

If they're on does today then you need to be there right away! Good luck and post pics when one of your boys get one down!

 

[Bloodwolf1984]

Ha! By expressed traits, I'm pure Anglo-Saxon (as is most of my genetic code). But like many Europeans, I've also got that Irish and pesky Viking DNA as well.

I am mostly Dane...very cool

 

[Urban_Hunter]

I don't have years of data on my place, but I'm usually setting up on rub lines and community scrapes for ML opener. Last day of ML I had 1 scrape and no rubs in the normal spots. Between then and this last weekend I have probably 20 scrapes and 8-10 rubs. Biggest, deepest scrapes I've ever seen. Had very little bucks on camera prior, now they're everywhere. Haven't seen any chasing, mostly just cruising. My reliable acorn trees were a bust this year, only had one that produced and they cleaned them up in bow season. Wife saw "the biggest buck I've ever seen" in our front field this morning running.
Middle sumner county

 

[RockMcL]

If they're on does today then you need to be there right away! Good luck and post pics when one of your boys get one down!

One son is here spending the night. Other one has THE BUCK he is focused on in Marshall County. Will see how it goes.