Red oaks

[Bfields]

I was wondering I see it said red oaks bare every other year so if the red oaks are different ages do the bare different years or will they be the same

 

[MickThompson]

That's not completely accurate. Red oaks and white oaks can bear every year but the acorns of red oaks take ~18 months to mature instead of the 6 months in white oaks.

A great design by a magnificent Designer- a major weather impact such as a late freeze that kills white oak blooms won't impact red oak acorn production until 18 month later as the crop that is set to drop that fall was already set the previous spring.

Rarely does either group consistently bear every year in a row.

 

[BSK]

Mick nailed it. A particular Red Oak may produce acorns every year. But the acorns from that tree that drop this year were set in the spring of 2021. The acorns on that tree that set this year will mature and fall in the fall of 2023.

 

[Ski]

I just had the state forester on my Ohio place a couple months ago and while looking at mast trees, he pointed out a black oak & told me to not cut any of them unless it was damaged or disfigured. Reason being was that most oaks produce on a bell curve beginning 10-15yrs age then ending in later years, and produce the most in middle age of say 40-60yrs. Many oak species also only produce once every other year, or sometimes one good crop every few years. Black oaks, however, once they begin fruiting will produce heavy every year until death. No curve and no skipping years. He said they are not the preferred acorn, but on years when other acorn drop is weak, a black oak will be the big ticket tree.

Take that for the hearsay that it's worth. I've never paid much attention to black oaks before because I've always been told they are a lower grade red oak that's not particularly great for timber nor wildlife. The forester says differently. So I'll hang a couple cameras on some loaded up black oaks & find out for myself.

On a side note, I did pull one off the hill and milled it up into quarter sawed lumber. I was pleasantly surprised. It cuts and behaves stable like a white oak, and makes pretty lumber like a high grade red oak. I've got plenty of them so from now on I'll pay more attention to how the deer use them, and will for sure be more urgent on reclaiming the blow downs as they happen. If the forester roves correct about them being a "clutch" tree when times are tough for the deer, then I might just have a new favorite tree!

 

[BSK]

Many oak species also only produce once every other year, or sometimes one good crop every few years. Black oaks, however, once they begin fruiting will produce heavy every year until death. No curve and no skipping years. He said they are not the preferred acorn, but on years when other acorn drop is weak, a black oak will be the big ticket tree.

Take that for the hearsay that it's worth.

Pure hearsay. I've got a fair number of Black Oaks on my place, and they only produce well about once every 5 years. But I do like them in that in some years where the Southern/Northern Reds don't produce, the Black Oaks will. I remember one year where the Black Oaks were the only oaks on the entire property that produced. That year, finding an isolated Black Oak was a gold mine.

 

[Ski]

Pure hearsay. I've got a fair number of Black Oaks on my place, and they only produce well about once every 5 years. But I do like them in that in some years where the Southern/Northern Reds don't produce, the Black Oaks will. I remember one year where the Black Oaks were the only oaks on the entire property that produced. That year, finding an isolated Black Oak was a gold mine.

Yeah I'll keep an out & see how they pan out. I've got one in particular in mind I'll pay close attention to because it flat out dumped nuts last year. If the forester is correct, it should have plenty nuts again this year. And yet again next year. I've never paid them much attention before. My focus is usually on white and chestnut oaks, the more dominant trees on the property.

 

[Carlos]

Y'all know an awful lot about nuts.
Haha j\k.
Interesting stuff for us to learn more about.

 

[BSK]

About one in five of our Red Oak variety trees are Black Oaks. The rest are all Northern Red Oak. Don't know why we don't have many (if any) Southern Red Oak. And although I've seen them in the area, on my place I have no Pin or Scarlet Oaks.

 

[Rick Dillard]

Don't know why we don't have many (if any) Southern Red Oak. And although I've seen them in the area, on my place I have no Pin or Scarlet Oaks.

BSK, not sure what the habitat looks like on your place, but Southern Red Oaks can usually be found on dry upland sites. I can usually find them in areas with poor red clay soil. I seldom see them in any abundance where I find Northern Red Oaks.

Scarlet Oaks are also found on upland sites with poor soils, but usually scattered individual trees in very little abundance.

 

[Ski]

About one in five of our Red Oak variety trees are Black Oaks. The rest are all Northern Red Oak. Don't know why we don't have many (if any) Southern Red Oak. And although I've seen them in the area, on my place I have no Pin or Scarlet Oaks.

That sounds about like what I have, only my place is in Ohio. That would account for no southern reds. I do have a few scattered scarlets, as Rick pointed out. My place is steep hills and deep hollows with long, narrow ridges. The soil is shallow white clay with bedrock not far from the surface. Perfect conditions for chestnut oaks, and boy do I have some giants!

 

[BSK]

That sounds about like what I have, only my place is in Ohio. That would account for no southern reds. I do have a few scattered scarlets, as Rick pointed out. My place is steep hills and deep hollows with long, narrow ridges. The soil is shallow white clay with bedrock not far from the surface. Perfect conditions for chestnut oaks, and boy do I have some giants!

Sounds a lot like my place. All ridge-and-hollow terrain with heavy chert soils. On south-facing slopes, it's primarily, Northern Red Oak, Mountain Chestnut Oak and Sourwood. On north facing slopes, White Oak, Poplar, Hickory and Beech.

 

[BSK]

BSK, not sure what the habitat looks like on your place, but Southern Red Oaks can usually be found on dry upland sites. I can usually find them in areas with poor red clay soil. I seldom see them in any abundance where I find Northern Red Oaks.

Scarlet Oaks are also found on upland sites with poor soils, but usually scattered individual trees in very little abundance.

That's interesting information.

 

[Ski]

Sounds a lot like my place. All ridge-and-hollow terrain with heavy chert soils. On south-facing slopes, it's primarily, Northern Red Oak, Mountain Chestnut Oak and Sourwood. On north facing slopes, White Oak, Poplar, Hickory and Beech.

Mine is majority chestnut oak on all slopes, followed by white oak. Hickories, maples, red oaks, & poplars collectively make up the rest. I have some beech but they're all very small. I used to have a lot of giant old ash trees but they're disappearing quickly.

 

[Popcorn]

Reading about hunting the oaks makes me long for the days of hunting a specific tree or grove in Jackson, Putnam, and Dekalb counties. Where I hunt now in Stewart county Tn and Trigg county Ky, both places oaks are by far dominant and 7 of any10 trees are oaks for thousands of acres. When the acorns fall here it's a different game. I never realized how far or for how long deer will travel from their traditional home range till I came here!!! These herds move like they migrating till the best of the acorn crop is hoovered up. Then they drift back, bringing the October lull to an end.

 

[BSK]

Reading about hunting the oaks makes me long for the days of hunting a specific tree or grove in Jackson, Putnam, and Dekalb counties. Where I hunt now in Stewart county Tn and Trigg county Ky, both places oaks are by far dominant and 7 of any10 trees are oaks for thousands of acres. When the acorns fall here it's a different game. I never realized how far or for how long deer will travel from their traditional home range till I came here!!! These herds move like they migrating till the best of the acorn crop is hoovered up. Then they drift back, bringing the October lull to an end.

Having done much of my trail-camera research in the environment you describe - endless oak-dominated hardwood forests - I can promise you deer move a long ways! I can't count the number of properties I've studied that see a HUGE turnover in individual bucks over the course of a season. Although this is nice from the standpoint of having a lot of bucks for a hunter to choose from, it does bring into question many management concepts. For example, in an area like much of what you describe, deer densities are generally around 25 to 30 deer per square mile. With that density, over a 640-acre area (one square mile), there should be 7-8 bucks. For a property like mine (500 acres, or 0.78 square miles), that means around 6 bucks total. Yet in September, just before acorns are plentiful, over 20 years we've averaged 11.8 unique bucks photographed. In October, the first full month of acorns on the ground, we average 21.4 unique bucks photographed. In the rut month of November when bucks are traveling the most, we average 24.5 unique bucks. Post-rut in December the number of unique bucks falls to 14.5. With the maximum number of unique bucks of 24.5 in November, one would assume that is maximum number of unique bucks to be photographed for the whole season, yet often the unique bucks photographed in each month are not the same bucks! In fact, the average number of unique bucks photographed over the entire season is 35.9. So a property that in theory - based on density - should have 6 bucks averages almost 36 unique bucks over the course of a hunting season. And that's just the average. Last year, with the biggest acorn crop I can remember, we set an all-time record of 52 unique bucks photographed from August 1 to January 15.