Presidents Island, John Tully, Moss Island and Earnest Rice

[UpperTully]

At yesterdays TFWC Commission meeting, Region 1 Wildlife Coordinator Jim Hamlington made the following recommendations for changes

Presidents Island WMA

Remove : 3-day Anterless quota (150) hunt and 3 day antlerless/antlered quota (50) hunts.
Add: two 3-day antlerless/antlered quota (30) hunts

This is to remove a low harvest/participation antlerless quota hunt and provide more opportunity for high demand antlerless/antlered hunts and improve hunt quality with lower quotas per hunt.

Presidents Island WMA, John Tully WMA, Moss Island WMA, Earnest Rice WMAs

Add a mainbeam outside spread option of 22 inches to the antler restrictions on these WMAs.

To allow hunters an either/or option for legal bucks, consistent with other WMAs through the state.

"Antlered deer must have either 9 antler points or an outside spread of 22 inches"


With that said, Commissioner Cox went on to question the 22" outside spread and what that would compute to as an inside spread. Jim said it was 20-19.5". Commissioner Cox asked how many bucks were killed over the years that would meet the 22" spread requirement. Jim Hamlington stated there were "some" but didn't have a number to give. Commissioner Cox questioned the condition of the Island since the 2011 flood and how its affected the deer. Jim stated that a thermal imaging survey was performed post 2011 flood by Dr Kennedy and found there was a 40% loss of the herd. He also stated there was a 25% loss in agriculture from the flood as well. Commissioner/Vice Chair Holbert asked Jim Hamlington asked for him and the Agency to consider a 18" inside spread and get back with them in May.

I would like to note a few things on this antler restriction. Mr Jim made the comment that this 22" rule was made for "those great big 8 points that he has heard was out there" and "they would be hanging cameras out there to see what they got". How would he know some? TWRA doesn't lay eyes nor take biological info of bucks killed on any of those WMAs other than PI. I wasn't impressed with Mr Jim's presentation and through it was comical as he provided no proof or research on the 22" outside spread rule. Do they not do their homework before coming to the Commission and proposing a change?

 

[UpperTully]

Re: Proposals for PI, John Tully, Moss Island and Earnest Ri

Video should start at Mr Hamilington's presentation. If not run up to the 8:20 mark


https://youtu.be/yjCNl3-KC6E?t=8m25s

 

[AT Hiker]

Re: Presidents Island, John Tully, Moss Island and Earnest R

22" outside spread....might as well go ahead and make the minimum G2 length 11".


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[FARMTOFIELD]

Re: Presidents Island, John Tully, Moss Island and Earnest R

22" outside spread....might as well go ahead and make the minimum G2 length 11".


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Yea 22" is way out in left field

 

[A/M/G]

Re: Presidents Island, John Tully, Moss Island and Earnest R

lol 22 inch outside

 

[UpperTully]

Re: Presidents Island, John Tully, Moss Island and Earnest R

I thought it was pretty comical myself.

After seeing this portion of the meeting, its clear why Region 1 has a bunch of things that makes you question TWRA.

 

[cbhunter15]

Re: Presidents Island, John Tully, Moss Island and Earnest R

Sounds like a cruel joke to me


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[SKFOOTER]

Re: Presidents Island, John Tully, Moss Island and Earnest R

I thought it was pretty comical myself.

After seeing this portion of the meeting, its clear why Region 1 has a bunch of things that makes you question TWRA.

Like the declining turkey population.

 

[TN Whitetail Freak]

Re: Presidents Island, John Tully, Moss Island and Earnest R

Well that is about a waste. 22" is a helluva spread and haven't seen a deer that would qualify in 3 years hunting those. Now the 18" spread the commission suggested makes more sense because the average deer with alert ears measure roughly 16" and hunters can easily decide whether a deer is outside the ears

 

[SKFOOTER]

Re: Presidents Island, John Tully, Moss Island and Earnest R

You are misreading the proposal. The 22" outside spread is being added as an alternative to the 9 point minimum restriction. So either/or will meet the requirements.

 

[PickettSFHunter]

Re: Presidents Island, John Tully, Moss Island and Earnest R

22 inches lol where do these "biologists" come up with this stuff.


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[UpperTully]

Re: Presidents Island, John Tully, Moss Island and Earnest R

I thought it was pretty comical myself.

After seeing this portion of the meeting, its clear why Region 1 has a bunch of things that makes you question TWRA.

Like the declining turkey population.

They way my season has been, I can't tell it's a declining population.

 

[SKFOOTER]

Re: Presidents Island, John Tully, Moss Island and Earnest R

And how has your season been, Upper Tully?

 

[RUGER]

Re: Presidents Island, John Tully, Moss Island and Earnest R

LOL is about all I got.

 

[UpperTully]

Re: Presidents Island, John Tully, Moss Island and Earnest R

If ya'll are affected by this proposal, email your Commissioner and let them know.

I can speak from personal experience from hunting Tully all my life, this rule is equivalent to saying you can't kill anything under 14 points. Those 22" deer are about like shooting a gobbler with 4 beards, they're rare. Even at 18" inside, it's going to cut out a lot of old bucks that should be killed. Most of the bucks killed at Tully are high and tight.

 

[UpperTully]

Re: Presidents Island, John Tully, Moss Island and Earnest R

22 inches lol where do these "biologists" come up with this stuff.


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The same place they think those other WMA's in this rule change are a President's Island and the same place they think a 9 point rule is the way to manage bucks.

 

[TN Whitetail Freak]

Re: Presidents Island, John Tully, Moss Island and Earnest R

The same place they think those other WMA's in this rule change are a President's Island and the same place they think a 9 point rule is the way to manage bucks.

Other than very restrictive hunting pressure they have been the same

 

[UpperTully]

Re: Presidents Island, John Tully, Moss Island and Earnest R

Sorry, but I'd have to whole heartily disagree for several reasons. I've been hunting Tully for 2.5 decades and spent 5 years working on President's Island during its prime so I've personally seen the difference first hand and not just some President's Island harvest pics posted by TWRA on Facebook and harvest records.

President's Island doesn't flood as often as Tully, so deer densities are drastically different. Up until 2000 or 2001, the majority of Presidents Island wasn't hunted. The amount of good bucks you'd see was unreal. Up until that same time, Tully was open to statewide and would take a pounding every year. For the past 15 years, Tully has been open to Unit A seasons with the only restriction being 9pt or better. It wasn't until 2013 when they stopped doe harvests after muzzleloader season, then the high mortality rate flood of 2015/2016 hit. Tully is 15,500 acres of big blocks of hardwoods, Presidents Island is 6,300 acres of more ag fields than timber, so the make up is MUCH different. They just don't compare in any aspect other than they are on the river.

I can't speak so much for Moss Island and Ernest Rice, I know you hunt those more than I have and might see better results because they're predominately open to archery only.

 

[TN Whitetail Freak]

Re: Presidents Island, John Tully, Moss Island and Earnest R

Sorry, but I'd have to whole heartily disagree for several reasons. I've been hunting Tully for 2.5 decades and spent 5 years working on President's Island during its prime so I've personally seen the difference first hand and not just some President's Island harvest pics posted by TWRA on Facebook and harvest records.

President's Island doesn't flood as often as Tully, so deer densities are drastically different. Up until 2000 or 2001, the majority of Presidents Island wasn't hunted. The amount of good bucks you'd see was unreal. Up until that same time, Tully was open to statewide and would take a pounding every year. For the past 15 years, Tully has been open to Unit A seasons with the only restriction being 9pt or better. It wasn't until 2013 when they stopped doe harvests after muzzleloader season, then the high mortality rate flood of 2015/2016 hit. Tully is 15,500 acres of big blocks of hardwoods, Presidents Island is 6,300 acres of more ag fields than timber, so the make up is MUCH different. They just don't compare in any aspect other than they are on the river.

I can't speak so much for Moss Island and Ernest Rice, I know you hunt those more than I have and might see better results because they're predominately open to archery only.

Yes my comment was regarding moss and ernest, I've never hunted Tully and until your response had forgotten it too was involved.

 

[UpperTully]

Re: Presidents Island, John Tully, Moss Island and Earnest R

Got ya! I can agree that ER and MI would be like PI. Now if it's turning out the quality of bucks that PI is or did, I have no idea.

 

[easy45]

Re: Presidents Island, John Tully, Moss Island and Earnest R

A 22" outside spread rule is a joke that is meant to make it look like they are trying to let hunters kill some of the big mature bucks that don't have 9 points. Truth of the matter is it's pretty rare to kill a buck that wide, it does happen , I've killed 2, but it's rare. PI doesn't produce many like that, those bucks biggest trait is their mass.


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[easy45]

Re: Presidents Island, John Tully, Moss Island and Earnest R

22" outside spread....might as well go ahead and make the minimum G2 length 11".


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Seriously lol, 22" spread doesn't happen very often.


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[Mike Belt]

Re: Presidents Island, John Tully, Moss Island and Earnest R

It still seems like they don't want any bucks killed at all.

 

[Bone Collector]

Re: Presidents Island, John Tully, Moss Island and Earnest R

They should have a spread rule added as an alternative to the 9 pt rule. I have heard stories of a monster 8 pt, that was let walk, because it was an 8 pt. and if there was a spread rule that deer could be killed. They definitely need to revise that 22" outside spread rule, but the requested 18" inside spread, is not really any better. I think it should be 18" outside. I remember hunting Laurel Hill and the 15" outside rule and the GW told me if he is to his ears with his ears sticking straight out away from his head, then he is 15" outside or "will be close enough". 18" outside would be past the ears where you could see daylight on both sides between the ears and rack. The only issue is you are judging something you have no way to be sure of. What happens when someone shoots on that is 17" outside or 16" outside...

It also appears they may add more buck hunts, to make it so more people can go annually. To me that is great, because I have been putting in for a few years and at this rate it will be 20 more years before I get drawn. If they take away the doe/spike hunt I know Catman will be unhappy, but that will allow (it appears) for 60 more hunters to get to hunt per year. I'm sure some hunts will be more sought after than others, so there may be a hunt where you might jump the line so to speak, if you are willing to go at a less popular time.

 

[SKFOOTER]

Re: Presidents Island, John Tully, Moss Island and Earnest R

That's why they added the 22" spread requirement as an alternative to the 9 point minimum!!! But granted the 18" spread reg would be more realistic.

 

[Bone Collector]

Re: Presidents Island, John Tully, Moss Island and Earnest R

That's why they added the 22" spread requirement as an alternative to the 9 point minimum!!! But granted the 18" spread reg would be more realistic.

I know I am agreeing with you, and saying it should be done, but I think and 18" outside vs. 18" inside would be better.

 

[SKFOOTER]

Re: Presidents Island, John Tully, Moss Island and Earnest R

Exactly.

 

[TN Whitetail Freak]

Re: Presidents Island, John Tully, Moss Island and Earnest R

If only there had been an 18" outside rule in 2016

 

[UpperTully]

Re: Presidents Island, John Tully, Moss Island and Earnest R

That is a fine example of the type of deer we should be killing instead of letting walk. The moment a deer like that walks off of these WMA's, he's dead.

 

[280longshot]

Re: Presidents Island, John Tully, Moss Island and Earnest R

If only there had been an 18" outside rule in 2016

Looking at him it's very hard to tell by pics that he would make 18", with that said I've seen some very nice bucks only 14 inches wide.
I have pics of bucks I swore were 18" wide but after measuring them just didn't make it. A big heavy rack at 15-17" wide would be hard to judge IMO especially in thick bush like John Tully.