Picking broadheads?!?

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BHC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2011
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915
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Wayne Co. , Tennessee
Ok so I'm getting a new bow this yr, the PSE prophecy. The ibo speed is 340fps, so ready to hunt I'm guessing I'll be in the 310-315 range. This is a big jump from my PSE triton that's at about 265 ready to hunt. What size broadheads should I be using to achieve maximum momentum, or kinetic energy which ever you prefer...
 
BHC said:
Ok so I'm getting a new bow this yr, the PSE prophecy. The ibo speed is 340fps, so ready to hunt I'm guessing I'll be in the 310-315 range. This is a big jump from my PSE triton that's at about 265 ready to hunt. What size broadheads should I be using to achieve maximum momentum, or kinetic energy which ever you prefer...
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Dont know alot about maximum momentum or kinetic energy.But i do know my Muzzy MX3s in front of Easton Axis have blown through my last 5 bucks.And that was with a Mathews DXT at 60lb shooting about 260fps.
 
I always select broad heads by the ones that shoot the best.. I killed my first archery deer over 30 years ago.. I have killed them with 4 dollar walmart broad heads and killed them with 20 dollar bass pro broad heads.. right now I shoot rage, before that it was a slick trick or a slick trick copy...
 
I'm not an archery wiz, but I think the arrow weight and design contributes more to kinetic energy and momentum than does the broadhead. That said, my choice is a cut on contact broadhead. (Magnus stinger) :)
 
I would think that most hunters shoot a 100 grain broad head but that's speculation on my part, I have not looked at the stats but every where that you can buy broad heads there is always a greater number and selection of the 100 grain of all brands over the 85 grain, and the 125 grain.
 
Yea, I definitely think 100gr is overwhelmingly the most popular. I was jus curious you can do it mathematically but some guys jus have all that kinda stuff memorized. It goes back to the ole wood you rather get hit with a baseball at 100mph or a ping pong ball at 200mph... But to do the number you have to know your bow speeds with both grain heads... It mass x velocity. With my current bow I shoot a 100 gr broad heads on stiff spine shafts 265fps, but if I put a 125gr head on it I may or may not gain momentum, even though ill lose speed. Which means I may or may not hit a deer harder... I do think I'm gunna go back to the old faithfull muzzys tho... I may jus buy 100 & 125 gr field tips and test it out..
 
Just playin with numbers and I dunno the units when you multiply fps x grains.. But 315fps x 100 grain head=31,500
Versus 300fps x 125 grain head=37,500

So it would be beneficial to lose 15 fps and add the larger broad head. You would still gain momentum...
 
BHC said:
Just playin with numbers and I dunno the units when you multiply fps x grains.. But 315fps x 100 grain head=31,500
Versus 300fps x 125 grain head=37,500

So it would be beneficial to lose 15 fps and add the larger broad head. You would still gain momentum...
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BHC,
I have no idea what this math represents, but Kinetic Energy, or KE, is the standard of measurement that bowhunters use to determine an arrows ability to pass through deer, or any game.

Deer are thin skinned animals. It takes relatively little to get an arrow through a deer. And contrary to what many will tell you, there are ZERO bow/arrow set ups that will easily go through hard bone in a deer. Bones like the humerus and ball sockets will stop the fastest of arrows no matter with what head they are tipped.

ANY sharp, well flying head will work great.

BTW, this past January, I sent two arrows through two different deer, both over 100 pounds, both pass throughs, both fell in sight.

I was shooting 47 pounds and a 373 grain arrow including the head.

My speed was less than 250 fps.
 
BHC said:
Ok so I'm getting a new bow this yr, the PSE prophecy. The ibo speed is 340fps, so ready to hunt I'm guessing I'll be in the 310-315 range. This is a big jump from my PSE triton that's at about 265 ready to hunt. What size broadheads should I be using to achieve maximum momentum, or kinetic energy which ever you prefer...
Click to expand...

What is your draw weight, draw length and arrow weight or type of arrow (I can look it up if you do not know the weight)?
 
In physics, the kinetic energy of an object is the energy which it possesses due to its motion.It is defined as the work needed to accelerate a body of a given mass from rest to its stated velocity. Momentum is the basically the force at which at object is traveling, it is defined as mass times velocity. To find the power at which an arrow impacts a deer you would multiply its mass by its velocity. So to properly determine the best arrow/ head combination, you would have to know the weights of the different arrow/ head combos and the speed at which it travels with the different setups. The formula for kinetic energy is 1/2 mass times velocity squared. This formula is just slightly different and tells you the energy required to move your arrow at a given speed... To me momentum is just more relatable... I don't know my speed yet it ibo 340fps. I'll be pulling 70lbs... Now doubt any head on a arrow put in the right place it's deadly. To me it's just which head is most devastating with less desirable shot placements...
 
And this is a little off topic, but jus throwing it out there. To me the biggest advantage of faster bows is the flatter trajectory( takes a lot of guess work out of it), and it gives the animal less time to react to the sound.. It's not that you need it to kill him.
 
BHC said:
In physics, the kinetic energy of an object is the energy which it possesses due to its motion.It is defined as the work needed to accelerate a body of a given mass from rest to its stated velocity. Momentum is the basically the force at which at object is traveling, it is defined as mass times velocity. To find the power at which an arrow impacts a deer you would multiply its mass by its velocity. So to properly determine the best arrow/ head combination, you would have to know the weights of the different arrow/ head combos and the speed at which it travels with the different setups. The formula for kinetic energy is 1/2 mass times velocity squared. This formula is just slightly different and tells you the energy required to move your arrow at a given speed... To me momentum is just more relatable... I don't know my speed yet it ibo 340fps. I'll be pulling 70lbs... Now doubt any head on a arrow put in the right place it's deadly. To me it's just which head is most devastating with less desirable shot placements...
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Right...or you could just go to bowsite.com and use their built in KE calculator!

And no amount of speed makes up for poor shot placement.
In archery hunting, accuracy IS KING!

But a hunter can make up (somewhat) for poor arrow placement by shooting razor sharp, DEPENDABLE, HUGE hole broadheads.
 
On the topic of broadheads, why is 100gr more common here in TN, when 125gr more common in WI?

I had been shooting NAP 125gr Spitfires, but had a hard time finding them, so am trying 100gr Rage this season. I know I could have ordered them online, but they were about the same price with no shipping. I shot the practice tip that came in the pack and at 20 yards my groups were so close I feel okay shooting either broadhead right now.
 
BHC said:
And this is a little off topic, but jus throwing it out there. To me the biggest advantage of faster bows is the flatter trajectory( takes a lot of guess work out of it), and it gives the animal less time to react to the sound.. It's not that you need it to kill him.
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True, and I agree. As long as the speed does not translate to a louder, less forgiving of poor form (often associated with odd angles from a tree stand or in a hunting situation), bow/arrow set-up.

There was a time when all 3-D shoots I attended only allowed arrow speeds in the 280 fps or less range. I do not know what the case is now.

There are many good videos that show deer reaction time. A deer, even a deer that is NOT on alert, but relaxed, has been shown to drop a FULL body height in less than a tenth of a second.

This translates to a deer ducking an arrow at 300 fps at 20 yards.

I have seen this MANY times.

And even more times I have watched good shooters SPINE shoot un alerted deer with loud, fast bows.

Also, I have never seen ANY arrow shoot through hard bone of a deer. Even bows at speeds and KE of which you speak.

Another point to ponder, within our group of mostly public land hunters, we all agree that the skill that should be most often associated with killing deer and archery, is the skill of getting CLOSE. Kill after kill.

If you want to kill them at a longer distance, say past 35 yards, USE A GUN.

And when it comes to averages, there are over 500 kills in our little group of bowhunters, the average shot distance is 19 yards.

Good luck this season, but do not fall prey to all the hype associated with product endorsements.
 
I used to use Spitfires and I absolutely loved the hole they cut. These blades were great except at sharp angle shots where they have a tendency to glance off rather than cut into the meat. For that reason I switched over to Grim Reapers.
 
102 said:
Also, I have never seen ANY arrow shoot through hard bone of a deer. Even bows at speeds and KE of which you speak.
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They do... saw a Reezen put a Muzzy through one shoulder into the other and take out both front legs. Deer fell and was doing donuts til guy could get down and fix his mistake. Not in any way condoning a bad shot, but whe when Muzzy says "Bad to the Bone" they mean it.
 
Mike Belt said:
I used to use Spitfires and I absolutely loved the hole they cut. These blades were great except at sharp angle shots where they have a tendency to glance off rather than cut into the meat. For that reason I switched over to Grim Reapers.
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Grim Reapers have the best reviews from what I have researched. My buddy used them last year and made me a believer. I will be switching after this season to Grim Reaper.
 
Urban_Hunter said:
Mike Belt said:
I used to use Spitfires and I absolutely loved the hole they cut. These blades were great except at sharp angle shots where they have a tendency to glance off rather than cut into the meat. For that reason I switched over to Grim Reapers.
Click to expand...

Grim Reapers have the best reviews from what I have researched. My buddy used them last year and made me a believer. I will be switching after this season to Grim Reaper.
Click to expand...

I made the switch this year to Grim Reapers as well.
 
I'd like to put it to the test maybe this yr I'll see if I savea shoulder blade, and see what it'll do to it at 20 yrds.. I think many guys get hung up on the past. It's simple a bow shooting 330 fps is more devastating than a bow shooting 250... It's easy to see go shoot a bow at 250 through plain foam target the get a modern crossbow out and shoot it through it. See if that same target even comes close to stopping it... Or shoot it at a 4x4 and see which one is the best. There is a difference, I promise. Now as we all know weather you shoot a deer with a recurve or the fastest bow out, if you gotthe deer straight through the heart it's Gunna die and die fairly quickly. This is like saying there is no difference between a 243 and a 308, because they both can get the job done at the same yardages in the woods... With my current set up I aim differently at 20 30 and 35 yrds because my arrow drops with the bow I am getting I don't plan on their being much drop from 20-35 yrds. Do little I may only need one pin to that range... That's a big advanntage in my eyes.. Technology has come a long way, no to say ppl haven't managed to effectively kill deer for a long time with our it, but there is a difference. Whether its enough to blow through a mature feet shoulder or not I do not know.... I was more interested in hearing the advantages verses disadvantages of different gr broad heads...
 
I believe most people shoot 100 grains b/c thats about all you need for deer. Larger animals such as elk you would want to bump up to 125 for more KE. Not that a 125 wont do the trick on a deer. I have shot muzzy but they def do not shoot like a field point and you end up adjusting your sights right before the season opens. I have had great luck with Rage, and you dont have to adjust your sights from field point to your Rage. I have shot Grim Reaper also, pretty expensive and not very durable. Just my take on things. A couple of my buddies shoot Rage also and we have had great luck. I shoot the 2 blade Rage, where my best friend likes the 3 blade rage better. Good Luck!
 
Urban_Hunter said:
102 said:
Also, I have never seen ANY arrow shoot through hard bone of a deer. Even bows at speeds and KE of which you speak.
Click to expand...

They do... saw a Reezen put a Muzzy through one shoulder into the other and take out both front legs. Deer fell and was doing donuts til guy could get down and fix his mistake. Not in any way condoning a bad shot, but whe when Muzzy says "Bad to the Bone" they mean it.
Click to expand...


Make no mistake, you did not see a guy shoot a deer through both front HUMERUS legs.
That would be VERY difficult for a 30 caliber bullet to do.

Most likely, you saw a guy put an arrow through both front SCAPULAS. VERY possible, similar results.

And the reason "donuts" are made by deer after such shots, is because the front shoulder "girdle" is affected so negatively by the shot that paralysis of the front legs is not uncommon after such a hit.

This "shoulder girdle" is connected to the spine and shocks the spine.
 
BHC said:
I'd like to put it to the test maybe this yr I'll see if I savea shoulder blade, and see what it'll do to it at 20 yrds.. I think many guys get hung up on the past. It's simple a bow shooting 330 fps is more devastating than a bow shooting 250... It's easy to see go shoot a bow at 250 through plain foam target the get a modern crossbow out and shoot it through it. See if that same target even comes close to stopping it... Or shoot it at a 4x4 and see which one is the best. There is a difference, I promise. Now as we all know weather you shoot a deer with a recurve or the fastest bow out, if you gotthe deer straight through the heart it's Gunna die and die fairly quickly. This is like saying there is no difference between a 243 and a 308, because they both can get the job done at the same yardages in the woods... With my current set up I aim differently at 20 30 and 35 yrds because my arrow drops with the bow I am getting I don't plan on their being much drop from 20-35 yrds. Do little I may only need one pin to that range... That's a big advanntage in my eyes.. Technology has come a long way, no to say ppl haven't managed to effectively kill deer for a long time with our it, but there is a difference. Whether its enough to blow through a mature feet shoulder or not I do not know.... I was more interested in hearing the advantages verses disadvantages of different gr broad heads...
Click to expand...

I have shot countless deer through the scapula, or shoulder blade. COUNTLESS!

One of my two largest bodied bucks, a 200 pound DRESSED weight monster 8 point, took my arrow through the "shoulder" (scapula) at 34 yards. I was shooting 63 pounds and a 400 grain arrow at 267 fps.

The scapula is very thin. There is a ridge on the scapula (scapular crest I think) that can, and will stop an arrow if it hits just right.

I am not talking about shooting fast arrows through small or thin bone. I am talking about shooting arrows (over 350 fps) through larger, thicker bone like leg bones and ball sockets.
Several of which are located for you convenience right up there around the vitals of a deer.

BTW, I was shooting 300 fps 20 years ago, with an overdraw and a 25 inch aluminum arrow.
I still shoot one today at 310 fps for neighborhood 3-D.
My arrow weighs under 275. My bow, about 55 lbs.

I just do not hunt with one.

It only took one season to figure out that a good rangefinder and a very accurate bow was far better.
 
100 grain muzzy's have always been good to me. u can reuse them and they sell replacement blades for them cheap. ebay is your friend.
 
BHC you are onto something many people don't consider....momentum.

Momentum is the force that will drive an arrow through a deer....not KE.

You can take a light, fast arrow and a slower, heavy arrow and have virtually the same KE number. The difference is in the momentum of the heavy arrow. The heavy arrow will retain more energy down range than the light arrow.

Good luck Saturday!
 
P.S.

I'm a TOTAL Noob.
FIRST Archery season so feel free to ignore me but I've talked to enough guys that aren't noobs that I feel OK.

I'm shooting a 45# or a 60# Recurve with 160gr 2 Blades with around a 480gr total weight arrow.
I'm not worried about penetration...I'm worried about spooking the Deer!!

I'm hunting from the Ground too...glutton for punishment.
Wish me luck :)
 
I got my bow in, gotta sight it in tommorrow. I got 500 spine arrows, with 125 gr muzzy heads. Hopefully they'll get the job done. Anything can do it in with good accuracy and penetration. But I do believe certain set ups pack more of a punch. Momentum is the force that provides penetration and possibly bone splitting power. We will see what kinda speed I get with my new set up...
 

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