Over - ?

[ferg]

My family groups are forming back up - and not seeing any chasing at this point - still have the occasional buck 'cruising' through -

Could it be that all the does were bred the first 'go around' ?

ferg....

 

[BSK]

My family groups are forming back up - and not seeing any chasing at this point - still have the occasional buck 'cruising' through -

Could it be that all the does were bred the first 'go around' ?

ferg....

Almost all does are bred the first time everywhere in TN. Now bucks often do display a secondary "surge" in rutty behavior, and chases can sometimes be seen 30 days after the peak of breeding. However, fetal conception data will usually show very few if any does are actually getting bred during the "2nd rut." Exactly what drives these cycles is a good question. Does do cycle through estrus every 28-30 days, but if no does are actually getting bred, then what is really going on? In my opinion, the most likely scenario is barren does (incapable of conceiving) cycling through estrus over and over, driving the chasing during the 2nd and 3rd rut.

 

[Hunter 257W]

I keep telling you guys that it's the deer cocaine.

 

[MattR]

Dang BSK . That makes alot of sense, never thought of it like that, i thought since the doe to buck ratio is jacked up with may too many does where Im at that it made the 2nd rut better.

 

[landman]

Dang BSK . That makes alot of sense, never thought of it like that, i thought since the doe to buck ratio is jacked up with may too many does where Im at that it made the 2nd rut better. [/quote

Other than reports of seeing " New born" fawns
Over a 90 period in summer...that has to tell us
some does are bred later than others
Doesn't It?

 

[landman]

Should have said "90 day"

 

[Crosshairy]

I was always told that some yearling does go into estrous during the second rut, and that drives some of the action. Any truth to that?

 

[BSK]

Dang BSK . That makes alot of sense, never thought of it like that, i thought since the doe to buck ratio is jacked up with may too many does where Im at that it made the 2nd rut better.

Most hunters think their adult sex ratio is highly skewed towards does. Yet in real-world studies, rarely is it found that the sex ratio is really that skewed. First, only in rare circumstances is that even biologically possible. Secondly, what we see while hunting isn't a good representation of what deer are really out there in the woods, especially in areas where far more harvest pressure is placed on one sex of deer (usually bucks). That drives just the bucks nocturnal (where they aren't seen by hunters) while leaving the does and fawns to walk around in daylight with impunity (where they will be seen multiple times by hunters).

What I'm getting at is, just because you see 6 does for every buck, your real sex ratio is probably no worse than 2 does per buck, which is biologically acceptable.

 

[BSK]

Dang BSK . That makes alot of sense, never thought of it like that, i thought since the doe to buck ratio is jacked up with may too many does where Im at that it made the 2nd rut better.

Other than reports of seeing " New born" fawns
Over a 90 period in summer...that has to tell us
some does are bred later than others
Doesn't It?

First, I take those "newborn fawn" reports with a grain of salt. I've been working with deer almost 2 decades and I still can't tell you how old a fawn is when I see it. Maybe it's newborn and maybe it's a month old.

But yes, a few does will be bred very late, but those are usually female fawns. Female fawns will not reach estrus until they acheive a given body weight (sexual maturity). That can occur in December, January, February, or even March. But in TN, female fawns that reach sexual maturity as a fawn are the minority. In fact, even in very healthy deer herds in TN, rarely do I see more than 25% of female fawns successfully breeding and producing a fawn the following summer.

 

[BSK]

I was always told that some yearling does go into estrous during the second rut, and that drives some of the action. Any truth to that?

By "yearling" does, do you mean fawns?

 

[MattR]

So BSK, i just moved here this year from camp lejeune NC. I see the 3 doe per day limits in my Nashville area and it makes me think, wow what the heck is it really that bad. That alone has changed the way I hunt deer here. I am stuck on public land and I dont call as much as i use to because i figure, well there isnt that much competition so they wont hit it as hard. Im not a pro hunter by no means but I always try to think about why they do things. Am i way off and overthinking it?

 

[Crosshairy]

I was always told that some yearling does go into estrous during the second rut, and that drives some of the action. Any truth to that?

By "yearling" does, do you mean fawns?

Yes, so I suppose you answered my question in your earlier post. 25% is a low number, but it's still a lot higher than zero. I've seen quite a few decent-sized "fawns" running around by the end of December in SW TN. The winters aren't that harsh, and many times there's plenty of food. I could see that optimal number being reached if the only criteria is body weight.