Muzzleloading Heritage Season

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I would be all for it as long as no more days was added to the season. Take a few out of the existing season.
Break out the 58 cal. Richmond musket.
 
That is pretty much what muzzleloading "primitive" firearms hunting seasons were first designed to be - before they were corrupted with in-lines (may the inventor of the da#@ things burn for eternity).
Primitive firearms seasons came about before in-lines were thought of. A few states, such as Pennsylvania, have kept it pure; the way it was intended.

Uh, do you get a hint of what I think of in-lines?
 
A lot of us do use these during regular gun season….

IMHO, it would just be another week too legally hunt deer…

So why even have a bow season, 👀 you can hunt with a bow during gun season as well….
And I have.

In all honesty, I would love too see what is known as " muzzleloader season" become primitive weapons season as it was intended….

It wouldn't hurt my feelings if it became flintlock / percussion side lock & recurve/ longbow using wooden arrows only…

Kinda' separate the hunters from the want ta be snipers….

Just an ole red necks opinion… not that it matters.

I'm just happy too be able too enjoy the opportunity's that are still offered.

PS… I don't have a problem with inline muzzleloaders or compound/ cross bows…

But as modern weaponry, with modern advantages ( wheels,cables, projectiles & scopes )
Maybe they should be limited too regular gun season as well…
 
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I got an idea for you "traditionalists". No cell phones, trail cams, subs (only real black), thermal clothing, and you got to sleep in a tent at the camp. If using a modern vehicle it must be parked no less than 1/2 mile from the camp.

Enjoy your hunt.

Oh and for the record, modern inlines have been around since about 1970. Far before my state had a "muzzleloader season". H&R had one in 1969 or 1970. So go cry me a river. A fast twist sidelock shooting conicals can easily kill past 200 yards. What next, ban lead conicals too and only allow PRB? :rolleyes: Pennsylvania's flintlock season allows sabots so think again.

You guys that think you deserve a special season just because you like to play dress up is a riot.
 
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😁

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I was too tired from the long walk back too camp, so I had too sit down and make the shot….🤣

Cell phones must remain hidden…it's in the traditionalist playbook..

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Carry on…

FYI… I only shoot real black powder…fwiw
 
GMB54; there are some of us who do exactly that. They are generally called "re-enactors". Some, who are called "trekkers", go out to wander the back country at all times of the year in buckskins or colonial fashion clothing. Have you ever heard of an organization called; "The American Mountainmen"? It's a tough outfit to join. You have to prove to them that you can survive in the wilderness. They do it like old Jim Bridger, and Kit Carson once did. Have you ever heard of them? How about Daniel Boone?
You might try reading a copy of "Muzzleloader Magazine" sometime.
Myself, I don't have a phone, cell or otherwise. My wife does. We do have a phone here in the house, and I can sit right next to it, but I will not answer it. I will use it in an emergency, but I don't like 'em. In the woods I never take anything electronic with me. No GPS, no remote signal for help type thingey. Certainly no phone. I'm completely "on my own hook" as some people used to say. I use a compass. I have, many times, slept in a tent camp, sometimes for weeks at a time. I enjoy it. I once spent three days (and nights) in a tarp lean-to, not even a tent, during a roaring blizzard in northern Michigan. For warm clothing I still like wool.
Yeah, I'm a dinosaur.
I understand steam power. I can shoe a horse. I built my own wood-strip canoe. I make most of my own shooting paraphernalia, including having made my own longrifles, both percussion and flintlock. My muzzleloaders are copies of those that were available before 1860. I use real black powder and round balls. I make most of my own accoutrements that go with my longrifles and fowlers.
In general, I dislike most modern technology. My use of this computer is one of the few concessions I make to modern technology. I use it as a word processor, for email, and for looking at forums like this one. But, even on here I am merely a trained chicken. I know if I peck this one button I'll get a kernel of corn. But if something doesn't work, I'm done with it until my grandson can come and fix it.
Another thread on here talks about laptop computers while in a deer blind or up a tree. To me, the very thought of such a thing is horrifying. Why go to the woods if you're going to bring civilization with you? I don't get that.
Ever hear of Sylvan Hart? He was sometimes called "The Last of the Mountainmen." If I wasn't married and committed to family I would very likely be living as did Sylvan Hart.
Look him up on your computer. Look up those others that I mentioned, too, if you don't already know about them.

I think its the generation gap that separates us. We all grew up with different experiences, different influences on our lives. Some of you have never known anything but high technology with computers and phones. I'm a "baby boomer", and I grew up before all that became common. I was a sophomore in high school when President Kennedy was shot. I remember that day. Heck, I was born before television became generally available to the public. ():~)

But, ya'll do as you please, just so long as no harm is done. And I'll do likewise.

Smo, I agree with everything you said.
 
I'm a few years younger Rancocas. But still like the old ways of doing things…👍
I was only in the 1st grade for the JFK assassination, but remember it well.

I do take my cell phone too the woods …. But mainly for pictures, videos & emergency's…

I'm too the point in my life as many of us are that it's not about how many I kill, how big or far away they are or using the latest out of the box modern abomination pretending too be a muzzleloader…

I just enjoy my time in the field and cherish the sounds,sights, scenery and Friends I've met along the way..

Doing things the old way definitely is not for everyone….But you never can tell when knowing how things were done before the World went disposable might just come in handy..👍
 
I got an idea for you "traditionalists". No cell phones, trail cams, subs (only real black), thermal clothing, and you got to sleep in a tent at the camp. If using a modern vehicle it must be parked no less than 1/2 mile from the camp.

Enjoy your hunt.

Oh and for the record, modern inlines have been around since about 1970. Far before my state had a "muzzleloader season". H&R had one in 1969 or 1970. So go cry me a river. A fast twist sidelock shooting conicals can easily kill past 200 yards. What next, ban lead conicals too and only allow PRB? :rolleyes: Pennsylvania's flintlock season allows sabots so think again.

You guys that think you deserve a special season just because you like to play dress up is a riot.

Geez...didn't intend to hurt nobodies feelings by posting this. :rolleyes:

I don't think any unique group "deserves" a special season. Do away with them all and just have a deer season. Out would come the big guns on opening day for a shorter season and most so called modern muzzle loaders would hit the back of the gun safe quicker than a cat could lick it's posterior.
 
My inlines will out shoot many CFs of a similar caliber so i have no need or desire to down grade. I use mine during our rifle season. Have for more years than i can remember. Our so called muzzleloader season is after firearms so there is zero motivation for a primitive rifle in my arsenal. If they did offer a early season "traditional sidelock" i would build a fast twist 45 or 40cal and still have a very lethal 200 yard rig. So what is the damn point of it anyway? Oh yeah it would be just peachy using something similar to 451 Gibbs to do the exact same thing i do now. We could all be pals and sing around a camp fire.

Just for the record ive been using 45cal conicals and rather light amounts of powder for the last few seasons. Love it just because its simple and will shoot sub MOA at 100yards. Lord have mercy though im doing it with a Knight 45cal 1-20 inline. Not sure how that is any different than doing the same thing with a sidelock.

Funny part is, i NEVER see a inline shooter crying about a guy using a sidelock during a ML season but God forbid when that is reversed. You guys bawl and bellyache worse than babies on some forums. Hell there is even a forum that just the mention of an inline or sabots will get you banned. You guys need a safe place or in this case "safe woods" where them mean ole inline guys cant hunt with you. 🤣
 
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My inlines will out shoot many CFs of a similar caliber so i have no need or desire to down grade. I use mine during our rifle season. Have for more years than i can remember. Our so called muzzleloader season is after firearms so there is zero motivation for a primitive rifle in my arsenal. If they did offer a early season "traditional sidelock" i would build a fast twist 45 or 40cal and still have a very lethal 200 yard rig. So what is the damn point of it anyway? Oh yeah it would be just peachy using something similar to 451 Gibbs to do the exact same thing i do now. We could all be pals and sing around a camp fire.

Just for the record ive been using 45cal conicals and rather light amounts of powder for the last few seasons. Love it just because its simple and will shoot sub MOA at 100yards. Lord have mercy though im doing it with a Knight 45cal 1-20 inline. Not sure how that is any different than doing the same thing with a sidelock.

Funny part is, i NEVER see a inline shooter crying about a guy using a sidelock during a ML season but God forbid when that is reversed. You guys bawl and bellyache worse than babies on some forums. Hell there is even a forum that just the mention of an inline or sabots will get you banned. You guys need a safe place or in this case "safe woods" where them mean ole inline guys cant hunt with you. 🤣
You sound "disturbed." Take a deep breath.
You are missing the point entirely. Because your in-line can easily take a deer at 200 yards is precisely why I don't like it. Other than loading from the muzzle what difference is it from any other modern rifle? You probably put a scope on it, too.
I often use a flintlock smoothbore that can only accurately throw a .60 caliber round ball about 50 yards. Beyond that range it goes way off target. Even with my .50 percussion longrifle I keep all my shots at game at 75 yards or less. A little more than bow and arrow range. That adds to the challenge.
It is not about sniping deer at long range. Getting a deer at all really doesn't matter. Here is the motivation; It is all about the challenge of getting close to the game, a reverence for history and tradition, and a love for "the old ways".
Apparently you don't have any of that. And, that's okay. Hunt how and with whatever you like. I will, too.
However, everyone should be aware that it was muzzleloaders and re-enactors back in the 1960's who first started pushing for a "primitive firearms hunting season". Various states were beginning to enact legislation to that purpose when the in-line came along. It was never the original intent for a modern muzzle loading rifle to be included, but of course, it has been. Of course some of the states did not enact a muzzleloader season until after in-lines had been well established. So, to probably most legislators, a muzzle loader is a muzzle loader.
Personally, I absolutely despise in-lines because I believe they have corrupted the muzzleloading hunting seasons. But, I'm not telling anyone not to use one. Again I say; Use what you like.
The controversy between tradition and modern muzzleloaders has been volatile ever since the in-line came on the scene. It has died down a lot in recent years, but it does continue to linger on, maybe especially with old hard headed Luddites like me.

Cheers
 
I got an idea for you "traditionalists". No cell phones, trail cams, subs (only real black), thermal clothing, and you got to sleep in a tent at the camp. If using a modern vehicle it must be parked no less than 1/2 mile from the camp.

Enjoy your hunt.
Sounds like you've hunted south Cherokee.
 
You sound "disturbed." Take a deep breath.
You sound like you are in denial because sidelocks capable of clean ethical 200yd kills have been around for well over 100 years. They even compete very well in matches like the Creedmore 150 that is just getting put together. My source of ignition just isnt on the side. Its inline, obviously. I can shoot the same loads from a ballistic standpoint. No deer/elk/bison/bear/ect that ever walked this earth is ever gunna be able to tell the difference. My deer load for the last 5ish years has been a 45cal 350gr pure lead conical and 70gr of powder. I shoot upto a 488gr with 80gr sometimes too.

The only difference is the lack of funds in my wallet to put togther a custom 45cal 1-18 or 1-20 sidelock. So tell me if im shooting the same bullet at the same speed, how is that not the same? Oh yeah i didnt need to play dress up or scrub my barrel in a bucket of soapy water. I cant say the deer will ever know the difference how i cleaned it. Only you "traditionalist" seem to take up any issue with how i ignite my powder and what methods should be legal.

Thats why many people like you need a forum where you cant even mention an inline. Cant say i ever saw a modern ML forum that did the same thing.
 
You sound like you are in denial because sidelocks capable of clean ethical 200yd kills have been around for well over 100 years. They even compete very well in matches like the Creedmore 150 that is just getting put together. My source of ignition just isnt on the side. Its inline, obviously. I can shoot the same loads from a ballistic standpoint. No deer/elk/bison/bear/ect that ever walked this earth is ever gunna be able to tell the difference. My deer load for the last 5ish years has been a 45cal 350gr pure lead conical and 70gr of powder. I shoot upto a 488gr with 80gr sometimes too.

The only difference is the lack of funds in my wallet to put togther a custom 45cal 1-18 or 1-20 sidelock. So tell me if im shooting the same bullet at the same speed, how is that not the same? Oh yeah i didnt need to play dress up or scrub my barrel in a bucket of soapy water. I cant say the deer will ever know the difference how i cleaned it. Only you "traditionalist" seem to take up any issue with how i ignite my powder and what methods should be legal.

Thats why many people like you need a forum where you cant even mention an inline. Cant say i ever saw a modern ML forum that did the same thing.
I see your point, I have used in lines with sabots and scopes, shot sabots from side hammer percussion muzzle loaders, Parker productions in Idaho makes some fine products, i have killed many deer with a Remington 700 that I have had for over 40 years. If you have never experienced the feeling of carrying flint lock with shooting bag and accoutrements and pursuing your game animals of choice, you should give it a try. I thought it was all the same too at once but like Sam I am ! I refused to try the Green Eggs and Ham! For some of us it's just different and yes we are so few in number in today's do it faster, further, easier and better world we are seen as snobs. Don't knock it till you try it please. If the Last of the Mohican's sound track doesn't make you happy, and the Patriot doesn't make you smile, then keep doing what you are doing, it works for you.
 
Well GMB54; you just don't get it. I suspect you never will.

You keep harping about long range capabilities. Of course some traditional side lock muzzleloaders are capable of accurate long range shooting. Some were especially designed for the 1000 yard target matches at Creedmore in England. Some, such as the Whitworth Rifle, were used as sniper rifles during the American War Between The States.
One of the most famous riflemen of the American Revolution was Timothy Murphy. He was a member of Daniel Morgan's Riflemen and during the Battle of Saratoga in 1777 he is credited with making a fantastic 300 yard shot that knocked British Brigadier General Simon Fraser off his horse. The high tech firearm of those days was, of course, the flintlock.

But, all that has nothing whatsoever to do with this traditional vs in-line use issue during muzzleloader hunting seasons.

Anyway, we are obviously on opposite ends of the issue. I've stated my piece as best I can, and I see no point in continuing with this thread. It is not important. There are many other current issues affecting our nation that we need to be concerned about.
 
Well GMB54; you just don't get it. I suspect you never will.
I get it all too well. Some people think they have a right to the woods to themselves and like minded hunters based on how powder is ignited. Those people and special interest groups lobby for a privilege that goes beyond what the rest of us get. In my state i get 1 antlered deer tag for both the firearms and the "alternative" season. I can take 1 antlerless too. Its the same tag.

We can however apply for managed hunts in conservation areas. Some of them have more primitive restrictions. I call it micro management vs a state wide "primitive" season. Everyone has a chance to get what they want this way. Our managed hunt tags are mostly before firearms season and the tag dont count against my regular deer tag. We have LOTS of these lottery type hunts all over the state and lots of them have very high success rates.

Thanks to the archery lobby there is virtually no chance of a state wide primitive season before firearms season. Not even a 3 day weekend hunt. The archers would have a fit even though they get more tags and far more time to hunt than firearms does.

So yeah i get it far too well how some feel they need or deserve a privileged hunt to keep others out of the woods while they hunt the way they want to hunt. As a mostly inline hunter that hunts mostly during the firearms season, i simply call it selfish.
 
I get it all too well. Some people think they have a right to the woods to themselves and like minded hunters based on how powder is ignited. Those people and special interest groups lobby for a privilege that goes beyond what the rest of us get. In my state i get 1 antlered deer tag for both the firearms and the "alternative" season. I can take 1 antlerless too. Its the same tag.

We can however apply for managed hunts in conservation areas. Some of them have more primitive restrictions. I call it micro management vs a state wide "primitive" season. Everyone has a chance to get what they want this way. Our managed hunt tags are mostly before firearms season and the tag dont count against my regular deer tag. We have LOTS of these lottery type hunts all over the state and lots of them have very high success rates.

Thanks to the archery lobby there is virtually no chance of a state wide primitive season before firearms season. Not even a 3 day weekend hunt. The archers would have a fit even though they get more tags and far more time to hunt than firearms does.

So yeah i get it far too well how some feel they need or deserve a privileged hunt to keep others out of the woods while they hunt the way they want to hunt. As a mostly inline hunter that hunts mostly during the firearms season, i simply call it selfish.
Years ago in TN, there was a non quota Women only hunt on Natchez Trace WMA. There were plenty of of quota hunts that required being drawn. In the 80's the hunt ended because of the complaints of a couple of men saying that they were being discriminated against. There was no more than a small handful of women that participated. I guess those guys were right in their argument, but dang I always figured they were very wrong. Kinda like people that complain about juvenile only hunts.
 
Our managed hunts pretty much cover all the bases. From youth to bow to disabled hunts. There are even some for firearms and first time hunters that never checked in a deer before. Each conservation area sets its bag limit and hunter quota. I apply for one the most popular muzzleloader managed hunts because of the limited tags available and the point you get if you dont get drawn. Cant say i remember a womens only hunt but its possible we had/have one. That area actually offers 2-3 hunts for MLs. One only for first time ML hunters iirc.

While none of this is perfect i think micro management is more fair. Everyone gets that chance for the hunt they want and you can still hunt the regular seasons without some retarded pencil pushing politician telling me i cant ignite my powder inline if i want to hunt.

I still have not gotten the answer how my load of a 350gr pure lead conical at 1300-1400fps is any different being shot from my inline than a sidelock. I can do it with a 209, #11 or musket cap. Pretty simple to swap out the parts on a Knight to make it legal for those restrictions. My scope can come off and a peep put on in minutes.

Exactly what advantage am i getting that excludes me and similar hunters?
 
Everybody needs to feel special and recognized these days. You can legally hunt with any muzzleloader you choose for 2 whole months! Maybe we should have a week of recurve, week of compound, week of crossgun, week of traditional muzzleloader, week of inline, week of smokeless muzzleloader, week of handgun, week of rifle with open sights, week of scoped rifle, etc. etc. etc. Let's just kill deer and enjoy the outdoors.
 
LOL, they combined handgun and atlatl with our ML season. Then changed the name to "alternative season". So now you can take a hand rifle like a 7mm-08 Encore pistol and feel special too. :D Maybe just chuck a spear if you want to be a real manly man. Its perfectly legal here.

Didnt really bother me much since i usually tag out before our late "muzzleloader season" anyway.

Oh and you left out BPCR season too. Cant leave those guys out. They got some sweet guns.
 
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That would be sweet to have a primitive season like that. Many of us hunters that have and use both modern in lines and more traditional/primitive style of guns understand the special feeling you get when holding things from an era long ago past. How it stirs things inside you can't explain. An unexplainable sense of accomplishment to kill an animal with such an outdated weapon. Who knows maybe such a season would recruit more hunters especially young ones for the future to hunting to remain positive. There are those of us who understand a season such as this is not about "me" having extra time but is part of a greater plan. Many never have nor will have that warm fuzzy feeling in the inside from using something created by their fellow man by hand whether it's 200 years old or a week. I hope that part of my soul never dies as it has in others. As for me I hunt with old and new alike.

As I hunt with both modern and primitive I can't call myself a traditionalist but know a few and fully understand the attraction.
 

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