Most Reliable Muzzleloader?

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Appalachian American

Appalachian American

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Up a tree in Middle TN
Wanting a new muzzleloader. Something I can really count on and something worth the money. I've had hangfire, cap fire only, cap not firing.. It's time to re-gift this lovely starter muzzleloader I was given. :crazy:


Thinking about the Savage Smokeless, but have heard good things about T/c too.

What do y'all think?
 
I think T/C's are way over priced..I think any of todays inline muzzleloaders with a 209 primer are reliable..I had a CVA kodiak for 4 years, hunted with it alot,and target shot with it alot and never had 1 hangfire or misfire.It always went boom when the primer went off.With that said,I sold it so I can purchase a savage smokeless... LOL
 
Yeah cecil that is what I've using too. Kodiak magnum .45 with 209 primers... 110 gr BH 209 powder. I don't get why there are so many problems, but it's always something.

For example. Missed a deer the other day and when I came home to check if the gun is off I got a capfire only. A couple weeks ago I had a pop-bang that cost me a doe. A few days later, I dropped the hammer on a buck. No go. Apparently the pin for the pivot breech had slipped out of one side, so the cap didn't bust. 3 strikes and this thing is outta here!

Gonna have to dig deep for a smokeless.
 
just got a cva optima in the mail today from a member here. with the easy to remove breech plug its gonna be sweet. It comes with two plugs, one for bh209 and one for pellets. no longer then mz season is I just cant see buying a smokeless...unless you are going to use it during the gun season too... but it would be nice
 
99% of failures are moisture, oil, poor cleaning, clogged primer area, etc. Any ML will be reliable if well maintained and you use good methods. The only hang fires I've had have been with flintlocks. Those things are a pain. A common problem I see are folks leaving the rifle loaded between hunts. Condensation can affect the powder nearest the primer. It's also a good practice to fire a cap or two before loading to get rid of any oil. Fire down at a leaf to insure there are no clogs. Blackhorn 209 powder requires real shotgun primers instead of "209" primers.
 
I have never had a hang or mis fire in years since I started using 209 primers.. I think it was in 1986 when I swapped over.. from precussion caps.. saying that I would not consider anything other than a smokeless.. specifically a savage.. buy once..cry once.. you will not be disappointed..
 
Well if you want to talk about trusting your mz, I killed the best buck Ive ever killed yesterday here at the house and my gun of choice was my savage mz thats been loaded since the Oct mz hunt in KY.
 
luke said:
nothing like a Savage!
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I agree, but something like a TC Triump using BH209 powder (AND THE CORRECT PRIMERS) would be almost as reliable.

jetwrnch said:
99% of failures are moisture, oil, poor cleaning, clogged primer area, etc. Any ML will be reliable if well maintained and you use good methods. A common problem I see are folks leaving the rifle loaded between hunts. Condensation can affect the powder nearest the primer. It's also a good practice to fire a cap or two before loading to get rid of any oil. Blackhorn 209 powder requires real shotgun primers instead of "209" primers.
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Good points.

Would add there is one issue that makes all muzzleloaders less reliable than a centerfire rifle:
No muzzleloader provides moisture protection to the powder anything close to a centerfire cartridge casing. Point ANY muzzleloader barrel up during a rain, let some water run down the inside the barrel, and if that powder gets wet, may not shoot.

You can reduce the risk of wet powder by just never pointing your barrel up when it's either raining or humid, as well as using a powder that doesn't absorb moisture as bad as others.
holstonangler said:
Savage ML2 is tops as far as shooting the most dependable powder out, Accurate Arms 5744.
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Most reliable powder for wet weather does appear to be AA5744, but I'd rank the BH209 as a very close second. In fact, I believe the BH209 may be a diluted (filler added) version of AA5744.

NOTE: Do not use AA5744 unless you have a Savage Smokeless Muzzleloader (or some other muzzleloader specially manufactured to use smokeless powders). Otherwise, BH209 is the best thing since sliced bread for most modern inline muzzleloaders.
 
Hey, thanks for the input Wes. I think that was a good point too about the improper maintenance, etc.. causing 99% of failures. I kept my muzzleloader clean, and maintained. But it is just one thing after another.

I prime my barrel with a cap or two before loading. I clean the gun regularly.

Also, with the first hangfire, I feel that it was due to the moisture. I sat all day on opening day of ML. It was foggy that morning and I think the moisture entered the barrel more than I thought it would've. Using Bh 209 with Winchester shotshell primers.

This last failure to fire honestly scared me to death handling the gun after that. I have no idea of what caused this failure.

I could go on and on about the other incidents.

Basically, I'm wanting a gun that is mine and only mine. Nothing like having something of your very own.

-BnDHntn
 
i have had them all. savage is in a different category....literally since you can use a modern, smokeless, non corrosive propellant.


until you have a savage muzzleloader, you still have not owned your last muzzleloader
 
redblood said:
until you have a savage muzzleloader, you still have not owned your last muzzleloader
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Certainly the best I've ever had.

However, the introduction of BH209 powder which can be used in most inline muzzleloaders has certainly narrowed the gap between the "black powder" inlines and the Savage smokeless.

Really don't believe my TC Triump using BH209 is much less reliable than my Savage using AA5744, it's just that the Savage has a little longer range. My Savage has the Accu-Trigger and that is certainly a long-range advantage over anything from TC.

Buk-n-d0eHntn said:
Also, with the first hangfire, I feel that it was due to the moisture. I sat all day on opening day of ML. It was foggy that morning and I think the moisture entered the barrel more than I thought it would've. Using Bh 209 with Winchester shotshell primers.
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Been there, done that.
Anytime you're hunting in humid weather, try to keep your gun pointed downward as much of the time as possible.

Another trick is to keep something on the muzzle to seal out the moisture, just don't forget to remove it before shooting. I commonly use a neoprene sock that forms a good seal on my muzzle and keeps any moisture out. But it's just something else to remember to remove, and could cost you a deer. I bought a couple of these neoprene "muzzle socks" a couple years ago, but believe the company has since gone out of business. But you could buy some neoprene gloves, and just cut off one of the fingers to make you a very durable muzzle sock.

You can also use any glove, a finger cot, a condom or a balloon. Been many a day when I took the glove off my hand and pulled it over the end of my barrel when had nothing better. There's also been many days I was out all day in the rain, then couldn't get my muzzleloader to shoot ---- but haven't had that happen now in over a decade ---- mainly because of taking these measures and now simply having more reliable muzzleloaders.

One other thing: You should not use many of the traditional black-powder solvents to clean your muzzleloader if you're using BH209, and things like "bore butter" are a big no-no. The only solvent I like for BH209 is the easily found Hoppes.
 
Hillbilly Hunter said:
How clean is the BH209?
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Not sure how to answer this question with a quantifiable measure but I can say a buddy of mine shoots BH209 in his T/C Impact and his MZer is very accurate out to 150 yards (furthest we have tested) and the cleanest MZer after a few shots, other than a smokeless, that I have seen firsthand. He flat loves the BH209 and from what I have seen, it would be my choice IF I had to go non-smokeless for some reason. This article covers the exact recipe he shoots with the exception of the scope.

http://randywakeman.com/TCImpactReview.htm
 
Hillbilly Hunter said:
How clean is the BH209?
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ALMOST as clean as AA5744! :)

You can shoot a dozen rounds in your inline muzzleloader with BH209, and the 12th will load almost as easily as the 1st. When you clean it, there won't be much residue to clean. Best of all, unlike all other black-powder substitutes I've used, there seems to be no point-of-impact change after multiple shots without cleaning between them.

Like I said, it appears it may actually be AA5744 with some filler added.
 
Buk-n-d0eHntn said:
Wanting a new muzzleloader. Something I can really count on and something worth the money. I've had hangfire, cap fire only, cap not firing.. It's time to re-gift this lovely starter muzzleloader I was given. :crazy:


Thinking about the Savage Smokeless, but have heard good things about T/c too.

What do y'all think?
Click to expand...

Those new fangled modern muzzle loaders using the make believe black powder are sometimes prone to all the conditions you described. Save up your money and buy yourself a nice custom flintlock. Use real black powder and learn how to shoot it and you'll wonder why you ever considered any of the modern stuff. Been using one for years and it's never failed me yet.

I'm just kidding, man.....I do really hunt with a flinter and to me it's very quick and reliable. I guess, most any muzzle loader is reliable if you learn how to manage it. Sounds like you're looking for an excuse to get a Savage. I vote go for it if that's what you really want.

Before you drop a bundle on a Savage, you might experiment around a little more with the BH209. To my understanding, it's the closest thing to smokeless without actually being smokeless you can get as far as black powder subsitutes go.
 
Wes-

No sub can compare to smokeless.

You should know better.

Speedwise, you may have a point with a limited amount of 5744.

Bump the smokeless up by 700 fps (which you cannot do with BH209) and we're playing in another time zone.

Bump it up again to 3 K, and you are near lightspeed.

Smokeless subs, while nice, cannot compete performance-wise.
 

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