Mature bucks just "showing up"

[whistlinwingman]

I cant find a link to the article but was reading Deer and Deerhuntings "Bowhunting Whitetails" Fall 2012 magazine the other day. Lee Lakosky had an article on how to age whitetails on the hoof. Personally, I think BSK's assessment and pics were much more informative for an amateur like myself. Either way, he said something that I've seen before but never wondered why. He said," If a mature bucks shows up out of nowhere on a property, we will simply know that he is 5.5 y.o. or older.


First question. Why? Why do they suddenly show themselves on camera or in season after reaching maturity? I know they have probably always been close but to suddenly change their core or breeding area at maturity seems out of character. Obviously, hunting pressure could or does affect them but I have seen and been hearing of this more and more.

Is it a social ladder issue? Do the aggressive 3.5 or 4.5's run them off?

 

[BSK]

First, I think Lee is making a common assumption many hunters make that just isn't true. I believe he is assuming that bucks that expand or shift their range, especially around the rut, are primarily mature bucks. My data clearly shows that is not the case (at least in the areas I have studied the seasonal range-shifting phenomenon). I have kept very close track of the ages of bucks that suddenly "show up" on a given property, both those that suddenly show up right after velvet shedding (those shifting away from their summer bachelor group range and back to their normal fall range) as well as bucks that suddenly show up just before the rut (rut range shifters and expanders). The age structure of these two groups is virtually identical, with all ages of bucks shifting ranges, and at about the percentage of each age that exists in the area. Like many hunters, I too had assumed that primarily older bucks would shift their range, but apparently, that is not the case. Bucks of all ages will shift around within their annual range to utilize smaller and sometimes completely separate sub-ranges. These sub-ranges can be used for a large part of the year, or only for a matter of weeks, as is common with "rut ranges."

 

[whistlinwingman]

Yeah. In the article he showcased his 6.5 y.o. he killed last fall that he had never seen before until last year. I find it hard to believe that buck hasn't frequented his property for a while.

 

[BSK]

Yeah. In the article he showcased his 6.5 y.o. he killed last fall that he had never seen before until last year. I find it hard to believe that buck hasn't frequented his property for a while.

You would be surprised. It never ceases to amaze me how often bucks, even old bucks, show up for the very first time out of seemingly nowhere. Exactly what is going on is hard to say, but it's not uncommon at all for a bucks to first show up on a property at maturity (or any age for that matter). The more we learn about deer life-time movements, the more the old ideas of deer having just one area they live in all their lives fades away. Deer are far more mobile over their lives than what was originally assumed.

Probably the most amazing research I've seen came out of Auburn. They were tracking bucks over many years with long-life radio collars. They found that some bucks have completely different rut ranges than where they live the rest of the year. These bucks literally leave their normal area, travel sometimes several miles, and then spend the 4-6 weeks of the rut in that different rut range, returning to their original range once the rut winds down. And most shocking of all was the finding that some bucks use a completely different rut range every year.

This answered many of the questions that my trail-camera research had highlighted. It is very common to see a buck show up on a given property during the rut for just one year, never to be seen again. I often wondered if I didn't see the buck in future years because he had been killed. But the research on rut ranges, and buck's lack of fidelity to each year's rut range, answered some of those questions. I've even seen bucks show up one year, not the next, but then show up the third year.

The take home message is, some deer, and especially some bucks, are FAR more mobile over their lifetimes than we originally thought they were.

 

[Andy S.]

The take home message is, some deer, and especially some bucks, are FAR more mobile over their lifetimes than we originally thought they were.

Sooo very true, but sooo hard to get some hunters to buy into. Hunting one contiguous piece of ground (18K acres) for the last eight years has really opened my eyes, as well as others, in this arena.

 

[BSK]

Here's one of my favorite example of a buck that "skipped a year" as a rut range-shifter/expander. He first showed up as a 3 1/2 year-old. Notice his strangely shaped right antler (on the left in the picture):

We didn't get a picture of him the next year (and we have an extremely high rate of getting bucks on camera). However, two years after he had been photographed as a 3 1/2 year-old, he shows up as a 5 1/2 year-old, but like his previous visit, only during the rut. Notice how he still maintained that strangely-shaped right antler, although he had added considerable "junk":

That second picture is one of my favorites. I swear that body looks big enough to saddle up and ride!

 

[bowriter]

LOL- If it was in D&DH, I wouldn't put much faith in it. If I had a buck just show up, I might assume a more dominant buck ran his butt off and make no assumption at all about his age.

 

[whistlinwingman]

LOL- If it was in D&DH, I wouldn't put much faith in it. If I had a buck just show up, I might assume a more dominant buck ran his butt off and make no assumption at all about his age.

I agree. Had to sit a while at the hopital and it was all they had to offer on the magazine stand.

 

[whistlinwingman]

The take home message is, some deer, and especially some bucks, are FAR more mobile over their lifetimes than we originally thought they were.

Sooo very true, but sooo hard to get some hunters to buy into. Hunting one contiguous piece of ground (18K acres) for the last eight years has really opened my eyes, as well as others, in this arena.

Yep. I think some times it is the does following food sources due to mast production etc. too that lead them to different areas. The few encounters I have had with some older bucks is very inconsistent on yearly basis'.

I guess thats what keeps me going so much. I see "new" bucks every year from mid Nov thru January and I never know what might be creeping through my beetle blow down hole.

 

[Boone 58]

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

Crop rotation in my area has a huge impact on the quality of deer you see from one year to the next. It also impacts the number of deer you see. So thatto would have an effect

 

[Mike Belt]

I guess that can work both ways. If you see him this year he may or may not be back and seen the following year. Just as well a new buck or group of bucks could show up for the first time the following year as well. You just never know so it keeps your hopes alive.

 

[BSK]

Changing seasonal food sources probably play a role in these seasonal shifts to sub-ranges, but I'll bet there are all types of things going on in those bucks' pee-brains that also play a role, as well as all sorts of social dynamics we will never understand.

 

[JCDEERMAN]

Changing seasonal food sources probably play a role in these seasonal shifts to sub-ranges, but I'll bet there are all types of things going on in those bucks' pee-brains that also play a role, as well as all sorts of social dynamics we will never understand.

Yep...alot of things changing this time of year. In the next 3 weeks, there will be even more change!

 

[RKenney]

Is it beyond the realm of possibility, that a certain buck could be in a certain area, without being captured on film or seen by a hunter?

 

[bass56]

Interesting

 

[MossyOakChick]

Not being really qualified to say scientifically but I totally agree with what's being said here by BSK. I am astonished at how through summer I feed deer and don't change their feed pattern at all but watch camera studies fluctuate dramatically. Think of it this way. Last year I had seven bucks and rarely a a couple does come to one camera. The bucks began to ear pin and shed. The oldest shed his coat and horns first and left. Then the second two ( brothers ). And so on. Until by a week in season I only had one spike coming in. Now this is at home where I do not hunt. It's just twenty acres and we do research and keep them for my little girl. We can grill on the porch with deer twenty yards at our apple trees so until a four or older sticks around on camera this will be a well fed safe haven. Anyway back to it. I pour keep them in corn till the field comes in and apples a lot. Doesn't keep them though. When they start shedding the boys leave.

Now to this year I have two bucks. One being the oldest buck from last year. Completely nocturnal and a ten point instead of nine now. (tempting but not to the point of hunting him) thinking he is four now. He hasn't been in front of the camera either. I caught him in the headlights twice in June and once three weeks ago. A small two year old eight and three does is all that I'm getting there this year. I believe two were killed by the neighbor and the others have range shifted for good. The mature one was seen two miles from here yesterday.

So it always surprises me how little we know.

 

[MossyOakChick]

Is it beyond the realm of possibility, that a certain buck could be in a certain area, without being captured on film or seen by a hunter?

No doubt in my mind! Yes.

 

[FARMTOFIELD]

Changing seasonal food sources probably play a role in these seasonal shifts to sub-ranges, but I'll bet there are all types of things going on in those bucks' pee-brains that also play a role, as well as all sorts of social dynamics we will never understand.

I think this.is huge in alot of areas, but what is your input on the effect of crop rotation for instance my farms are surrounded by thousands of acres of rop fields. That rotate corn and soybeans with wheat being planted in the cut corn fields. Some years stands will be better in the early season and the next year in the late. Or visa versa depending on what crops lye where. There are always corn and beans beside one another but one field will change travel patterns greatly. How big a role do you think this plays in overall home and core ranges?

 

[Andy S.]

Is it beyond the realm of possibility, that a certain buck could be in a certain area, without being captured on film or seen by a hunter?

My opinion is no, it is not beyond the realm of possibility. It may not be likely, but I certainly believe it is possible from time to time for this to take place. Of course, the length of time you are talking could change the outcome dramatically (seen/captured versus not seen/captured).

 

[BSK]

Is it beyond the realm of possibility, that a certain buck could be in a certain area, without being captured on film or seen by a hunter?

Depends on who is running the cameras!

Honestly, no matter who is running the cameras, some studies have shown that most older bucks take short-term but often long-distance forays out of their normal range during the rut. These forays--being one-time events--would be extremely difficult to catch on camera, as a buck might cross an indivdual property just one time. The odds of seeing and killing that buck on that one trip through are also low, but not impossible by any means.

 

[BSK]

One way to get some idea of what percentage of bucks that use your hunting property that your are capturing on camera is to use a simplified form of "mark-recapture" statistics. In true mark-recapture studies, deer are captured and "marked" with ear tags. To find out what percent of the deer in the area were captured and marked, the capture process is run a second time. The percent of deer captured the second time that had previously been captured and marked tells you about what percent of the local population you captured the first time. For example, if 30% of the deer captured the second time have ear tags, the first capture process probably caught around 30% of the local deer population.

For trail-cameras, watch the percent of killed bucks you previously had pictures of. This will give you a good estimate of what percent of bucks using the property that were originally "captured" on camera before the second "capture" process (killed by hunters) was initiated. The biggest limitation to this process is the small "killed" (recaptured) data set. Try to use several years of killed bucks to assess this data. Really "good" numbers would be over 80% (which would mean you photo-capture 4 out of every 5 bucks before they are killed). If you are very good at placing cameras, you should be able to get over 90% (photographed 9 out of every 10 before they are killed).

 

[BSK]

Changing seasonal food sources probably play a role in these seasonal shifts to sub-ranges, but I'll bet there are all types of things going on in those bucks' pee-brains that also play a role, as well as all sorts of social dynamics we will never understand.

I think this.is huge in alot of areas, but what is your input on the effect of crop rotation for instance my farms are surrounded by thousands of acres of rop fields. That rotate corn and soybeans with wheat being planted in the cut corn fields. Some years stands will be better in the early season and the next year in the late. Or visa versa depending on what crops lye where. There are always corn and beans beside one another but one field will change travel patterns greatly. How big a role do you think this plays in overall home and core ranges?

I believe crop rotations affect movement patterns (what routes the deer travel) far more than they do sub-range shifts. Unless of course a particular food source is completely removed, such as no beans planted in the area in a given year. I see this most dramatically when we have a near total acorn failure. In those years, pure hardwood properties located close to agricultural fields may see few deer shifting into the hardwood property that year. The deer stay near the ag fields all fall and winter.

 

[Winchester]

Is it beyond the realm of possibility, that a certain buck could be in a certain area, without being captured on film or seen by a hunter?

My opinion is no, it is not beyond the realm of possibility. It may not be likely, but I certainly believe it is possible from time to time for this to take place. Of course, the length of time you are talking could change the outcome dramatically (seen/captured versus not seen/captured).

I agree, NO. This one is hard to prove either way as well.
When a totally new buck shows up and gets killed or photographed 1 time, has he been there all along, or his first visit? While I know most will side with it being his first ever visit, some things in the past have led me to think some bucks just lead different lives, and are VERY hard to lay eyes on by ANY means!

 

[BSK]

...some things in the past have led me to think some bucks just lead different lives, and are VERY hard to lay eyes on by ANY means!

Undoubtedly true. Thankfully, those kind of bucks are in the minority. But they do exist.

 

[Winchester]

...some things in the past have led me to think some bucks just lead different lives, and are VERY hard to lay eyes on by ANY means!

Undoubtedly true. Thankfully, those kind of bucks are in the minority. But they do exist.

I agree and am also thankful they are rare! I have enough trouble with the dumb ones let alone the unusually smart ones!

 

[BSK]

...some things in the past have led me to think some bucks just lead different lives, and are VERY hard to lay eyes on by ANY means!

Undoubtedly true. Thankfully, those kind of bucks are in the minority. But they do exist.

I agree and am also thankful they are rare! I have enough trouble with the dumb ones let alone the unusually smart ones!

Heck, even the dumb ones give me the slip most of the time!

 

[WORM82]

I have noticed on 1 farm i run cameras on that when bucks start grouping back up in late winter their will always be one or 2 new mature bucks that i have never had any pics of. This place is very thick and in the summer thru mid october i might get 1 or 2 bucks on cam then from mid december thru march i will get regular almost daily pics of 5 to 10 bucks together with half of those being mature.

 

[whistlinwingman]

I have noticed on 1 farm i run cameras on that when bucks start grouping back up in late winter their will always be one or 2 new mature bucks that i have never had any pics of. This place is very thick and in the summer thru mid october i might get 1 or 2 bucks on cam then from mid december thru march i will get regular almost daily pics of 5 to 10 bucks together with half of those being mature.

The late or 2nd rut is when I see it happening. If they aren't chasing it is a feeding pattern issue. I sometimes get lucky and catch them moving through the thick stuff right at dark. Can't get a shot most of the time but I do get a glimpse of them.