Mass and age

[BSK]

Odd question, but has anyone ever seen a situation where a younger buck displayed mass that you would only expect to see on a very old buck?

I ask because I found a buck on a client's camera census that has the classic body conformation of a 3 1/2 year-old, but he's got antlers with so much mass - not only beams but all the way out the points - that you would swear he's a Wisconsin buck. I refuse to believe a 3 1/2 year-old buck could have that much mass. This buck is an 8-point with vertical tines as thick as your wrist.

 

[TNReb]

Aren't YOU the expert around here? That's the sort of stuff we ask you, not the other way around.

 

[tree_ghost]

Odd question, but has anyone ever seen a situation where a younger buck displayed mass that you would only expect to see on a very old buck?

I ask because I found a buck on a client's camera census that has the classic body conformation of a 3 1/2 year-old, but he's got antlers with so much mass - not only beams but all the way out the points - that you would swear he's a Wisconsin buck. I refuse to believe a 3 1/2 year-old buck could have that much mass. This buck is an 8-point with vertical tines as thick as your wrist.

No I haven't. I've seen incredible beam and tine length but never mass. In fact I'd say that's the one thing that most of our bucks here are missing. Even the very mature ones. They just aren't as massive as northern deer…

 

[BSK]

Aren't YOU the expert around here? That's the sort of stuff we ask you, not the other way around.

My "expertise" says this buck is much older than his body conformation indicates (and I've seen that situation before), but just wondering if anyone has ever seen a younger buck with incredible mass. I have not.

Client asked if I wanted that buck placed under protection as a young up and comer. I told him absolutely not. I want to see that buck's jawbone!

 

[tree_ghost]

My "expertise" says this buck is much older than his body conformation indicates (and I've seen that situation before), but just wondering if anyone has ever seen a younger buck with incredible mass. I have not.

Client asked if I wanted that buck placed under protection as a young up and comer. I told him absolutely not. I want to see that buck's jawbone!

I love that approach! Speculation is for the birds…let's get down to some facts!

 

[backyardtndeer]

We don't generally see great mass here at all, even in older bucks, which really doesn't make any sense at all since we have pretty decent soil and abundance of ag crops. Maybe one of those watered down traits that aren't supposed to be displayed in the Tennessee deer population, either that or your trail cam pictured deer is just older than you think.

 

[Andy S.]

For TN bucks, no I have not.

 

[deerhunter10]

No we haven't ever noticed it. And we have had some super star 3 year olds. We really don't see any kind of great mass til 5.5. We have a palmated gene on one of our farms to and still don't see it til they get older.

 

[Ski]

I have not. As I understand it and has been my experience, heavy mass happens after maturity is reached and the body no longer requires nutrition for growth, so excess nutrients can be spent on the antlers.

Maybe he's got a toothache or digestive issue causing weight loss? Or maybe he just looks young. Or perhaps it's an antlered doe. My guess is just a small, young looking but mature deer.

 

[DoubleRidge]

I agree...never seen a younger buck with super mass...but the buck you described sounds awesome.

 

[Dumbluck]

I have seen it a couple of times. I even had a young 2 year old with tremendous mass that probably had 4.5 bases but unfortunately I believe he got shot. Another deer that comes to mind was a buck my dad killed years ago that carried his mass all the way out to the tips of his beams but was only maybe 3. He was an odd one and I've never seen another one like him since and that was probably 25 years ago.

 

[TheLBLman]

Would bet the buck is at least 4 1/2. And has genetics for incredible mass.

 

[Dennis]

They say the Hanson buck was 3.5. It definitely had mass.

 

[rem270]

I killed this buck in 2011. I believe he was only 3.5. The mass says different but I think he was a 3.5 year old.

Yes, I took terrible pics back then. Lol.

 

[Ski]

He's got long legs but neck is broad as torso and pronounced brisket.

 

[fairchaser]

I've always believed that mass doesn't lie when it comes to maturity. But, so called experts will say that it's a poor indicator of age and more an indicator of nutrition. I think you have deer that don't fit the curve. Some older bucks will have thin horns and some younger bucks will have heavy mass. When it comes to aging, all factors must be considered but body confirmation means more than antler mass.

 

[BSK]

That's a stud buck rem270!

 

[JCDEERMAN]

My "expertise" says this buck is much older than his body conformation indicates (and I've seen that situation before), but just wondering if anyone has ever seen a younger buck with incredible mass. I have not.

This has been my experience. Several times I've seen very old deer have all the characteristics of 3.5's. Appeared to be going downhill. Never had a 3.5 with that much mass - 4.5, quite a bit

 

[Antler Daddy]

I don't know, but I would prefer a deer with mass vs. long tines.

 

[chris1976]

We get 4.5+ bucks every year that you would swear are only 2.5. Some bucks look young even when old.

 

[Ski]

We get 4.5+ bucks every year that you would swear are only 2.5. Some bucks look young even when old.

Same here. A buck doesn't really look old around here until he's 5yrs+.

And on my big woods Ohio place bucks never get the stumpy leg look. They're always lean with long legs even into old age.

 

[megalomaniac]

On my farms in TN, never.

I think large pedicle size (not counting injured/deformed pedicles) is one of the greatest correlating factors with age.

But while large pedicles almost always correlates with older deer, small pedicles do not necessarily correlate with younger deer.

But there are genetic anomalies, so it isn't impossible for a middle aged buck to have insane mass. Heck, look at what.the deer farmers have accomplished... 1.5yos with 5.5in bases!

For the client, do 1 of 2 things... if he is high scoring (150 plus, depends on clients expectations), put him on the kill list and check his jawbone. If he isn't a super high scoring deer, put him on the do not kill list and see what he becomes next year.

 

[BSK]

For the client, do 1 of 2 things... if he is high scoring (150 plus, depends on clients expectations), put him on the kill list and check his jawbone. If he isn't a super high scoring deer, put him on the do not kill list and see what he becomes next year.

He's on the kill list. I want to see that jawbone.

 

[Outdoor Enthusiast]

He's on the kill list. I want to see that jawbone.

Hopefully they will kill him and you can report back on the results.

 

[74MOPAR]

Not much mass but an incredible deer my son killed a few years ago. I thought he was 3.5. I wish we would have had his jawbone aged. One man could put him in the truck.

 

[BSK]

That's a heck of a buck 74MOPAR! Love those forked G3s! Any idea what he scored?

 

[74MOPAR]

That's a heck of a buck 74MOPAR! Love those forked G3s! Any idea what he scored?

We never had him officially scored, I think we came up with 163" . Luckiest kid ever

 

[BSK]

We never had him officially scored, I think we came up with 163" . Luckiest kid ever

That score sounds right for that size buck.

 

[Ski]

We never had him officially scored, I think we came up with 163" . Luckiest kid ever

Whew! That buck had no short measurements.

 

[BigAl]

I"'m no expert, but deer are like people. There's always an anomaly out there that doesnt follow the rules.