Are these other diseases, that have been diagnosed in humans, 100% fatal? In humans that is.
Mad Cow Disease, CJD(sp?)
- Thread starter MUP
- Start date
AT Hiker
Well-Known Member
Think of it this way...the only definitive way to diagnose it is via a brain biopsy.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
duckduck84
Well-Known Member
MUP":gi6slwdi said:
To directly answer your question, the theory is yes that all forms (CJD and vCJD) are 100% fatal in humans.
Ok, brain biopsies have been performed on live patients, tumors removed and such. But you're saying that the people that have mad cow and cjd were dead before the diagnosis came. Any way to read the symptoms, before dying, now that the diagnoses have occurred?
duckduck84":376b6rq7 said:
Ok, thanks duck.
duckduck84
Well-Known Member
MUP":31fu8041 said:
If you want some "light" reading on the subject lol
https://www.ninds.nih.gov/Disorders/Pat ... Fact-Sheet
duckduck84":3mh1bf2y said:
This is why I am more concerned about "getting" CJd from CWD than I am concerned about Ecoli or bubonic plague or cancer or heart disease or the flu...these all are fatal and kill thousands even millions of people each year, but there are cures for them. I know that CWD has never been shown to jump to humans, and I doubt it can, BUT the severity of the consequences are too high for me to not be cautious.
AT Hiker
Well-Known Member
MUP":1etrma4d said:
Sorry, I was quick to type.
Back when my mother in law had dementia we had tons of literature to read. Brain biopsy, on live patients, can be used but a autopsy is used to confirm or catch the missed biopsy results in the study we read.
I should have said autopsy, my apologies.
I also remember reading a stat that anywhere from 70-90% that had clinical diagnosis died within a year.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
duckduck84
Well-Known Member
poorhunter":187oqxyg said:
You know what the leading cause of death is? Life. Simply by existing, you will die. The severity of the consequence of being born is that one day we will all breathe our last breath. I understand caution (as in not eating meat that has tested positive) in the sense of controlling what we can, same as not smoking, wearing a seat belt, etc. However, I just cannot for the life of me understand how so many people have quickly grown so fearful over this. I'm not trying to put anyone down, it is their choice, but I just really cannot grasp it from a logical mindset.
megalomaniac
Well-Known Member
100% fatal. No cure known, too late to do anything once symptoms present.
Likelihood is low but it DOES influence your decision making process... Heck, I'll eat anything that doesn't eat me first. I used to eat cow brains before we knew about mad cow disease. Not any more (and they weren't all that great to start with!).
I'll still eat deer untested from areas that CWD has not been discovered, but the thought will be in the back of my mind. I wont eat deer from CWD positive areas until I get a confirmed negative test back.
Likelihood is low but it DOES influence your decision making process... Heck, I'll eat anything that doesn't eat me first. I used to eat cow brains before we knew about mad cow disease. Not any more (and they weren't all that great to start with!).
I'll still eat deer untested from areas that CWD has not been discovered, but the thought will be in the back of my mind. I wont eat deer from CWD positive areas until I get a confirmed negative test back.
That's exactly my thought process as well mega.
Dean Parisian
Well-Known Member
Unless you've been out of the country or sleeping under a rock over the last few days, you've probably seen the headlines.
"Zombie deer" — a term that some sensational headline writers have created for the deadly deer malady known as Chronic Wasting Disease, or CWD.
With all the national talk suddenly making the news cycle rounds — for a disease that has actually been around for a few decades now — there's certainly no shortage of opinions about the disease, it's risk to hunters and what to do about it.
In fact, there seems to be little middle ground with the various camps out there being deeply divided over the disease itself and what the future of deer hunting is.
What should hunters make about all this sudden talk concerning zombie deer? We turned to Dr. Deer — NAW's Dr. James C. Kroll — for his take.
North American Whitetail: What is your take on the "zombie deer" stories that are suddenly being found all over in news headlines?
Dr. James Kroll: It is no more proper to refer to CWD as "zombie deer disease," than it was to call it "mad deer disease" back in 2002! As far as I am concerned, the term is sensationalism at its worst, probably for headlines. The term "zombie" is defined as "a corpse said to be revived by witchcraft, especially in certain African and Caribbean religions." This hardly fits the symptoms of deer in the clinical stages of the disease.
NAW: It's been reported in recent days that LSU researcher Dr. Frank Bastian indicates that CWD may not be about prions, but instead a bacterium. And news reports also indicate that he may have found a cure for CWD. What's your opinion on all of this?
DJK: Bastian has been promoting this theory for 20 years! As my friend Dr. Don Davis points out, prion researchers worldwide for the same 20 years have unanimously rejected his theories. However, IF he is correct, and as it was reported that a vaccine and cure could be in reach in the next two years, it is grossly naïve to make such a claim. In order to register a vaccine and put it into use, the following has to happen:
Experimental data on vaccine safety and immunology efficacy has to be completed. (That takes years.)
Complete an application for a Conditional License.
Protection efficacy experiments have to be completed, taking several more years.
Submitted for a Complete License, which applies to just that one host species.
The fact they assert that this would be a cure, again is naïve, in that vaccines do not cure anything and never have! First of all, CWD erodes holes in the brainstem, and brain tissue cannot regenerate itself!
They imply that it will be a protective vaccine, again very naïve! There never has been a vaccine that protects 100 percent of individuals in the population. If it were developed, it would be useful to the deer farming industry, but would not be feasible for wild deer. As we have vividly learned for other wildlife vaccines, delivery is the major problem. It has to be species specific and have no effect on other species; and, be picked up by all individuals in the population. Even the much-touted oral rabies vaccines are not 100 percent effective. As much as I would love for it to be true, it is never going to happen!
The major impact of all this is, it gives false hopes to the entire deer and hunting industry.
NAW: In your estimation, where do we stand with CWD right now?
DJK: We still do not even know by what mechanism prions are distorted and the exact causal factors or agents producing the disease. Agencies have locked themselves into a perpetual testing loop that has no impact on the spread or control of the disease. There is no mechanism developed to date that has been proven to control the spread of the disease. Research has been obsessively focused on "Frankenstein" experiments, in which infected material is injected into animals in a manner that does not occur in nature. The bottom line is that CWD appears to be spreading, but we cannot say that in true honesty, since testing is spreading; no one or agency has come up with a way to prevent the spread or eliminate the disease; and, massive killing of deer has no effect, since it is a frequency (not density) dependent disease. There are two basic questions that, if answered affirmatively, would cause genuine concern. First. does CWD have the potential to decimate deer populations? Second, can humans contract CWD? The answer to date is negative to both. Yes, there have been two studies in Wyoming that seem to show a population effect, but both are troubled by confounding factors such as high mortality to EHD, mountain lion predation, competition with elk, and habitat changes due to grazing practices. In regard to human susceptibility, there are several peer-reviewed, published papers showing this is highly unlikely. Some folks point to a study in Canada on macaque monkeys, but it was never published nor substantiated by duplicate science."
NAW: Anything else that you'd like to add?
DJK: Yes, it has been asserted many times that CWD has the potential to destroy deer populations and deer hunting as we have known it! The sensationalist reaction by professional biologists and the media has managed to accomplish the latter! When CWD showed up in Wisconsin, three tabloids published articles saying that three men had died from eating venison tainted with CWD. That proved to not only be untrue, but patently false! That alone caused a 12 percent decline in deer hunters in Wisconsin, and they have never returned. It now is affecting deer hunting and harvest, with a decline of as much as 15 percent – all because of panic by agencies and biologists. If I wanted to destroy hunting in America, of which about 80 percent is deer hunting, I would convince hunters and the general public that one of the most healthy food items produced naturally in the deer woods was unwholesome and deadly! THAT would mean the end to deer hunting as we have known it; and it is my deep opinion that the whitetail deer will still be with us! And, the wholesale destruction of habitat caused by over-population would indeed lead to declines in deer numbers.
"Zombie deer" — a term that some sensational headline writers have created for the deadly deer malady known as Chronic Wasting Disease, or CWD.
With all the national talk suddenly making the news cycle rounds — for a disease that has actually been around for a few decades now — there's certainly no shortage of opinions about the disease, it's risk to hunters and what to do about it.
In fact, there seems to be little middle ground with the various camps out there being deeply divided over the disease itself and what the future of deer hunting is.
What should hunters make about all this sudden talk concerning zombie deer? We turned to Dr. Deer — NAW's Dr. James C. Kroll — for his take.
North American Whitetail: What is your take on the "zombie deer" stories that are suddenly being found all over in news headlines?
Dr. James Kroll: It is no more proper to refer to CWD as "zombie deer disease," than it was to call it "mad deer disease" back in 2002! As far as I am concerned, the term is sensationalism at its worst, probably for headlines. The term "zombie" is defined as "a corpse said to be revived by witchcraft, especially in certain African and Caribbean religions." This hardly fits the symptoms of deer in the clinical stages of the disease.
NAW: It's been reported in recent days that LSU researcher Dr. Frank Bastian indicates that CWD may not be about prions, but instead a bacterium. And news reports also indicate that he may have found a cure for CWD. What's your opinion on all of this?
DJK: Bastian has been promoting this theory for 20 years! As my friend Dr. Don Davis points out, prion researchers worldwide for the same 20 years have unanimously rejected his theories. However, IF he is correct, and as it was reported that a vaccine and cure could be in reach in the next two years, it is grossly naïve to make such a claim. In order to register a vaccine and put it into use, the following has to happen:
Experimental data on vaccine safety and immunology efficacy has to be completed. (That takes years.)
Complete an application for a Conditional License.
Protection efficacy experiments have to be completed, taking several more years.
Submitted for a Complete License, which applies to just that one host species.
The fact they assert that this would be a cure, again is naïve, in that vaccines do not cure anything and never have! First of all, CWD erodes holes in the brainstem, and brain tissue cannot regenerate itself!
They imply that it will be a protective vaccine, again very naïve! There never has been a vaccine that protects 100 percent of individuals in the population. If it were developed, it would be useful to the deer farming industry, but would not be feasible for wild deer. As we have vividly learned for other wildlife vaccines, delivery is the major problem. It has to be species specific and have no effect on other species; and, be picked up by all individuals in the population. Even the much-touted oral rabies vaccines are not 100 percent effective. As much as I would love for it to be true, it is never going to happen!
The major impact of all this is, it gives false hopes to the entire deer and hunting industry.
NAW: In your estimation, where do we stand with CWD right now?
DJK: We still do not even know by what mechanism prions are distorted and the exact causal factors or agents producing the disease. Agencies have locked themselves into a perpetual testing loop that has no impact on the spread or control of the disease. There is no mechanism developed to date that has been proven to control the spread of the disease. Research has been obsessively focused on "Frankenstein" experiments, in which infected material is injected into animals in a manner that does not occur in nature. The bottom line is that CWD appears to be spreading, but we cannot say that in true honesty, since testing is spreading; no one or agency has come up with a way to prevent the spread or eliminate the disease; and, massive killing of deer has no effect, since it is a frequency (not density) dependent disease. There are two basic questions that, if answered affirmatively, would cause genuine concern. First. does CWD have the potential to decimate deer populations? Second, can humans contract CWD? The answer to date is negative to both. Yes, there have been two studies in Wyoming that seem to show a population effect, but both are troubled by confounding factors such as high mortality to EHD, mountain lion predation, competition with elk, and habitat changes due to grazing practices. In regard to human susceptibility, there are several peer-reviewed, published papers showing this is highly unlikely. Some folks point to a study in Canada on macaque monkeys, but it was never published nor substantiated by duplicate science."
NAW: Anything else that you'd like to add?
DJK: Yes, it has been asserted many times that CWD has the potential to destroy deer populations and deer hunting as we have known it! The sensationalist reaction by professional biologists and the media has managed to accomplish the latter! When CWD showed up in Wisconsin, three tabloids published articles saying that three men had died from eating venison tainted with CWD. That proved to not only be untrue, but patently false! That alone caused a 12 percent decline in deer hunters in Wisconsin, and they have never returned. It now is affecting deer hunting and harvest, with a decline of as much as 15 percent – all because of panic by agencies and biologists. If I wanted to destroy hunting in America, of which about 80 percent is deer hunting, I would convince hunters and the general public that one of the most healthy food items produced naturally in the deer woods was unwholesome and deadly! THAT would mean the end to deer hunting as we have known it; and it is my deep opinion that the whitetail deer will still be with us! And, the wholesale destruction of habitat caused by over-population would indeed lead to declines in deer numbers.
