Little Help w/my TC Hawken Please...

[BlountArrow]

Question 1, which I'm guessing will evolve into many others:
For the life of me I cannot get this gun to group for anything at 50 yards even. I was hoping to shoot Maxi-Balls or Maxi-Hunter bullets but it isn't working out, tried the patched round ball and no luck, and I even tried some big heavy buffalo bullets I had and they are horrible too. I've got to be doing something wrong. Is it necessary to shoot pistol powder (FFF)? I use Triple Seven Rifle Powder and have only tried using the Triple Seven Rifle Powder. I'd really like to hunt with the rifle, never even been afield with it because it shoots terribly, if I can't make this happen I'm probably going to shelf it and go buy a new muzzleloader. Many thanks in advance! (It's percussion, not flint)

 

[quigleysharps4570]

My suggestion would be to trash the replica powder and get the real stuff...2f Goex would be where I would start. Still will probably want to play...my .50 likes 2f Swiss...the .54 likes Goex Cartridge grade and the little .40 longrifle shoots 3f Goex.

 

[BlountArrow]

You think the powder would really make that much difference in the accuracy? I mean this thing is all over the place. I'm genuinely asking don't take that the wrong way.

 

[fairchaser]

I use 90 grs of pyrodex RS and the maxiball in mine and it groups about MOA. Make sure your cleaning the barrel well each shot and unless you have other problems this should do the trick.

 

[BlountArrow]

I use 90 grs of pyrodex RS and the maxiball in mine and it groups about MOA. Make sure your cleaning the barrel well each shot and unless you have other problems this should do the trick.

Happen to remember what grain maxi-ball? I've probably tried it, but curious.

 

[Anonymous]

In my TC hakens 50 cal i use T7 fffg 60 gr for round ball and 80 gr for the hornady great plains. i also have some 275 gr buffalo conical that works good to. am surprised the buffalo didn't work maybe your useing to much powder. hope you can make it work.

 

[fairchaser]

I use 90 grs of pyrodex RS and the maxiball in mine and it groups about MOA. Make sure your cleaning the barrel well each shot and unless you have other problems this should do the trick.

Happen to remember what grain maxi-ball? I've probably tried it, but curious.

You got me there. I thought there was only one size for the 50 cal. If I had to guess, I would say 300 gr. but I could be wrong.

 

[BlountArrow]

In my TC hakens 50 cal i use T7 fffg 60 gr for round ball and 80 gr for the hornady great plains. i also have some 275 gr buffalo conical that works good to. am surprised the buffalo didn't work maybe your useing to much powder. hope you can make it work.

So, you're using 60 grains of the "pistol powder" for your round ball and 80 grains for your great plains bullet. Maybe I am using too much powder...but I thought I tried some pretty light loads for FFG "rifle powder".

 

[Anonymous]

some people use wads and it seams to help.

 

[BlountArrow]

some people use wads and it seams to help.

I am using a patched round ball. Some people use wads on the Maxi-Ball type bullets - is that what you're saying?

 

[BlountArrow]

I use 90 grs of pyrodex RS and the maxiball in mine and it groups about MOA. Make sure your cleaning the barrel well each shot and unless you have other problems this should do the trick.

Happen to remember what grain maxi-ball? I've probably tried it, but curious.

You got me there. I thought there was only one size for the 50 cal. If I had to guess, I would say 300 gr. but I could be wrong.

No, I believe they have 320 and 370 at a minimum.

 

[TennesseeJed]

When you shoot round balls have you found any of the shot patches? If so, were they torn up or burned bad?

What were they lubed with?

 

[Buccaneer]

777 is the wrong powder to use with percussion caps, it will not reliably ignite or burn in a traditional muzzle loader like a Hawkin. you need either FFg loose black powder or Pyrodex RS loose BP substitute. I have shot a TC Hawkin and Renegade .54 with 100 grains Pyrodex RS and TC Maxi-Hunters lubed with bore butter for 30 years with great success. For the past 15 years I have used a bore butter rubbed wad between the bullet base and powder.

With the 100 grain loose Pyrodex load patched round balls are tack drivers in my .54 Renegade.

Do not use pellets or 777 in a traditional No. 11 percussion cap ignition MZ. You're asking for trouble and frustration.

 

[BlountArrow]

When you shoot round balls have you found any of the shot patches? If so, were they torn up or burned bad?

What were they lubed with?

Good question, I have found some they are not burnt or torn. They are prelubed...can't remember exactly what but I believe they were either a prelubed pack from CVA or TC.

 

[BlountArrow]

777 is the wrong powder to use with percussion caps, it will not reliably ignite or burn in a traditional muzzle loader like a Hawkin. you need either FFg loose black powder or Pyrodex RS loose BP substitute. I have shot a TC Hawkin and Renegade .54 with 100 grains Pyrodex RS and TC Maxi-Hunters lubed with bore butter for 30 years with great success. For the past 15 years I have used a bore butter rubbed wad between the bullet base and powder.

With the 100 grain loose Pyrodex load patched round balls are tack drivers in my .54 Renegade.

Do not use pellets or 777 in a traditional No. 11 percussion cap ignition MZ. You're asking for trouble and frustration.

I'm actually using a musket cap if that makes a difference in the use of 777 igniting. However, I'd really like to be able to shoot the maxi-hunter or maxi-ball so maybe I need to try that. Do you think loose FFG is a better option than FFFG? I ask because I've heard of several folks using FFFG in these side hammers, but I'm a novice to side hammers (obviously).

 

[TennesseeJed]

Some people say to use 3F in .45 and the smaller calibers and 2F above .45. I used 3F Goex black powder in the Hawken .50 I had and it shot very well.

I use 2F in my .54s and a .58 I have.

 

[Thunderroost]

I agree that the 777 powder might be the problem. harder to ignite and you might not be getting a consistent burn. Back in the day,before Tony Knight showed up, me and a bunch of people were using TC Hawkens and Renegades with pyrodex RS and TC Maxi-balls and doing just fine.

 

[quigleysharps4570]

When I sight my rifles in it is on a bench with a few different brands and grades of blackpowder, BlountArrow. As I've said, you can see each one of mine likes something different too. I also use a wad in each cause I get tighter groups than without. Felt wads in the little .40 and .50 caliber and a 28 ga. 1/8" Nitro card in the .54 caliber.

 

[BlountArrow]

I'm going to try again with some different type powder...maybe it is the 777, I just wouldn't have thought the powder could make that much difference in the groups or complete lack of grouping I guess I should say.
Do you actually wrap the maxi-ball/maxi-hunter with a wad or use one of those felt buttons? I had never heard of wrapping that type of bullet in a wad, but it sounds like some of you are doing that.

 

[quigleysharps4570]

The wad goes between powder and bullet.

 

[BlountArrow]

The wad goes between powder and bullet.

I'm a novice, but not that bad :grin: ...you probably misunderstood my last post. I've heard of some guys using a patch or wad with a maxi-ball which I've never heard of, but then again they also make those felt buttons. I was just wondering if someone was calling the button a wad or patch.

 

[Thunderroost]

Do you actually wrap the maxi-ball/maxi-hunter with a wad or use one of those felt buttons?

no...just lube, if you don't get the pre-lubed ones

 

[Wobblyshot1]

TC traditionals have never really impressed me with their accuracy potential. There's a reason Green Mountain Barrel Company sells replacements for them.

I would think, however, you should at least be able to get decent enough accuracy at 50 yards to hunt with it.

 

[Anonymous]

some people use wads and it seams to help.

I am using a patched round ball. Some people use wads on the
Maxi-Ball type bullets - is that what you're saying?

yes your right. sorry for the lack of info.

 

[fairchaser]

I use 90 grs of pyrodex RS and the maxiball in mine and it groups about MOA. Make sure your cleaning the barrel well each shot and unless you have other problems this should do the trick.

Happen to remember what grain maxi-ball? I've probably tried it, but curious.

You got me there. I thought there was only one size for the 50 cal. If I had to guess, I would say 300 gr. but I could be wrong.

No, I believe they have 320 and 370 at a minimum.

Yeah I checked and I use the 320 gr. maxiballs.

 

[Anonymous]

all shots was standing up with no rest support. just shot these today.

 

[Hickory Nut]

First thing I would do is get a solid rest. Some of that inaccuracy could be from shooting free-hand. Shooting from a rest will better tell you what the rifle is capable of. If shooting from a rest gives a better group, you know your issue is at least partly with technique.

 

[BlountArrow]

First thing I would do is get a solid rest. Some of that inaccuracy could be from shooting free-hand. Shooting from a rest will better tell you what the rifle is capable of. If shooting from a rest gives a better group, you know your issue is at least partly with technique.

I'm just new to side locks not new to shooting. I'm shooting from a bench w/rest and using sand bags. At 50 yards it is all over the place maybe I can get some time Saturday to try some of the things you guys have talked about here.

 

[Hickory Nut]

I must have read that wrong. The line at the top of your photo lead me to think you were shooting without a rest. Nevermind.

"all shots was standing up with no rest support. just shot these today."

 

[BlountArrow]

I must have read that wrong. The line at the top of your photo lead me to think you were shooting without a rest. Nevermind.

"all shots was standing up with no rest support. just shot these today."

You understand that was not my post I take it.